Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report

"Mark Probert-February 20, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I bet the anti-vacs will whitewash this scandal. He had a conflict of interest and is now speaking
and consulting.

How many kids have suffered from his arrogance?

Give us a break, the Lancet are just drug company shills, every time they want to rubbish
Wakefield they wheel on Elliman and Bedford and never ever mention their conflicts---being funded
by MMR makers.

To see real conflicts whale.topolitics.htmlOpen ↗

"john" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 20, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>

wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I bet the anti-vacs will whitewash this scandal. He had a conflict of interest and is now
speaking and consulting.

How many kids have suffered from his arrogance?

Give us a break,

So, you now ackonwoedge that you are an anti-vac liar.

the Lancet are just drug company shills, every time

Quoted message said:

they want to rubbish Wakefield they wheel on Elliman and Bedford and never ever mention their conflicts---
being funded by MMR makers.

You sure were ahppy to cite Wakefield's study when it was published in the Lancet. Now that they
have acknowledged his conflict of interest, you call them names.

Methinks, and I do, that you do not like getting your ox gored.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report
From: [email hidden] (john)
Date: 2/21/2004 7:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Mark Probert-February 20, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I bet the anti-vacs will whitewash this scandal. He had a conflict of interest and is now
speaking and consulting.

How many kids have suffered from his arrogance?

Give us a break, the Lancet are just drug company shills, every time they want to rubbish
Wakefield they wheel on Elliman and Bedford and never ever mention their conflicts---being funded
by MMR makers.

To see real conflicts whale.topolitics.htmlOpen ↗

The *gang* knows about these conflicts. They also endorse them with all kinds excuses to make
it right..

TDN abd Mark Proberts think it is A OK, then they whine if it suits their agenda.

Jan

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
backing him up.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
backing him up.

That is sooooooo good...!!!!

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report
From: [email hidden]
Date: 2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
backing him up.

Ho Hum.

Another *gang* member.

The one who started the *whiner* buzz word is Mark Probert. See below how he uses the word, along
with the lies he told. I'll put the lies in asterisks for you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When my younger son was born, and we found he had CP prior to his leaving the hospital, we were
angry. We wanted to blame someone.

We could have, since my wife had visited her ob/gyn a week before she delivered 11 weeks early,
and comlianed of feeling wet contiuously. Turns out, he never noticed she was leaking amniotic
fluid.

We spoke with friends, and our Rabbi, who asked us if suing would make my son normal, and would
it make us better parents.

When we answered no to both questions, we decided it was not worth the wasting of emotional
energy, and we decided to be the best parents we

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be.

We have never, ever, regretted that decision, and have never looked back.

And, it is the dirtbags who whine and encourage parents by their whining

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

place blame who really disgust me.

Especailly the ones who have no basis for it, like the

*****supposedly vaccine

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

injured kids.******

Just be the best parents you can be.

Vaccine injured kids? Urban myth or reality? Not that it probably really matters to you Mr
Probert, but I respect your post here. We learn to forgive the mistakes of others, not for their
benefit, but it relieves us of having the burden of a resentment in our hearts. All the best, my
combative chum...

Jan said:

So much for Mark's favorite word,,,,,whining.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan is proof of Mark's denial.

Quoted message said:

909shot.comArticles.htmOpen ↗

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report
From: [email hidden]
Date: 2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
backing him up.

I am sorry you don't know the history here. There is nothing whining is my reply. It happens to be
the truth.

The *gang* knows about these conflicts. They also endorse them with all kinds excuses to make
it right..

TDN and Mark Proberts think it is A OK, then they whine if it suits their agenda.

Quoted message said:

Mark refused to tell us what he thought of the CDC and FDA receiving waivers concerning their vested
interested in vaccines.
==

Quoted message said:

Jan, let's agree to disagee, as your mind is made up, and I know I am right....

And my answer is NO.

Let' hear your opinion of this vested interest and the waivers.

TDN told us the vested interest is A OK, then whines when she see it elsewhere.

You have whining mixed up with the truth.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: [email hidden] Date:
2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <16822-4037B0FB-104@storefull-
3131.bay.webtv.net>

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy, backing
him up.

Ho Hum.

Another *gang* member.

The one who started the *whiner* buzz word is Mark Probert. See below how

he

Quoted message said:

uses the word, along with the lies he told. I'll put the lies in asterisks

for

Quoted message said:

you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> When my younger son was born, and we found he had CP prior to his

leaving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the hospital, we were angry. We wanted to blame someone.
>
> We could have, since my wife had visited her ob/gyn a week before she delivered 11 weeks
> early, and comlianed of feeling wet contiuously.

Turns

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> out, he never noticed she was leaking amniotic fluid.
>
> We spoke with friends, and our Rabbi, who asked us if suing would

make my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> son normal, and would it make us better parents.
>
> When we answered no to both questions, we decided it was not worth

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> wasting of emotional energy, and we decided to be the best parents we

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> be.
>
> We have never, ever, regretted that decision, and have never looked

back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> And, it is the dirtbags who whine and encourage parents by their

whining

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> place blame who really disgust me.
>
> Especailly the ones who have no basis for it, like the

*****supposedly vaccine

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> injured kids.******
>
> Just be the best parents you can be.

Vaccine injured kids? Urban myth or reality? Not that it probably

really

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

matters to you Mr Probert, but I respect your post here. We learn to

forgive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the mistakes of others, not for their benefit, but it relieves us of

having

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the burden of a resentment in our hearts. All the best, my combative chum...

Jan said:

So much for Mark's favorite word,,,,,whining.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan is proof of Mark's denial.

Quoted message said:

909shot.comArticles.htmOpen ↗

Jan

Again, Jan calls a statement that disagrees with her viewpoint a "lie." She claims to have marked
the "lie" with asterisks, i.e.:

*****supposedly vaccine injured kids.******

Then she claims "proof of Mark's denial," is The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan, and
provides a link to The National Vaccine Information Center website, as if that clinches the matter.

Even if the existence of a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan and the rhetoric on the linked
anti-vac website proved that parents claims of vaccine injury to their children are valid (they
don't), THERE IS NO LIE HERE.

A lie is an intentionally false statement made to deceive. Nothing in Mark's post is intentionally
false nor meant to deceive anyone. Thus, NO LIE. There is only an opinion that disagrees with Jan's
viewpoint.

Jan has been accused of calling disagreements with her "LIES" and thus bearing false witness. She
denies this and challenged us to post examples.

This is the first example.

I'm sure Jan will provide more...and I will point them out as they occur.

--Rich

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: [email hidden] Date:
2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <16822-4037B0FB-104@storefull-
3131.bay.webtv.net>

Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy, backing
him up.

I am sorry you don't know the history here. There is nothing whining is my reply. It happens to be
the truth.

The *gang* knows about these conflicts. They also endorse them with all

kinds

Quoted message said:

excuses to make it right..

TDN and Mark Proberts think it is A OK, then they whine if it suits their agenda.

There are open conflicts due to disclosure by the parties, and Wakefields secret concfilct which is
just now coming out. Why do you ignore the real damage that he has done?

Quoted message said:

Mark refused to tell us what he thought of the CDC and FDA receiving

waivers

Quoted message said:

concerning their vested interested in vaccines.

Which Mark would that be?

Quoted message said:

==

Quoted message said:

Jan, let's agree to disagee, as your mind is made up, and I know I am right....

And my answer is NO.

No to what? Agfreeing to disagree? How unreasonable.

Quoted message said:

Let' hear your opinion of this vested interest and the waivers.

Let's hear your opinion on Wakefield's deception....

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slightly off-topic, but I wonder if Dr, Wakefield could also collect those very highly compensated
"expert testimony" fees if any of these "cases" result in lawsuits? This is done in the US all the
time (not just in medical matters, of course), but as far as I know, the "experts" testifying
eiither way are always at arms-length, that is not intimately involved in the lawsuit itself, such
as Dr. Wakefield would apparently be here. Though I imagine he could be considered some kind of a
"witness".

Of course he can...in th eUSA, where he has been seen hanging around lately...$40,000 per case is
not unheard of.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Rich Shewmaker"
[email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 6:11 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <EIGdnaOgE-eal6fdRVn-
[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: [email hidden]
>Date: 2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <16822-4037B0FB-104@storefull-
>3131.bay.webtv.net>
>
>Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
>backing him up.

Ho Hum.

Another *gang* member.

The one who started the *whiner* buzz word is Mark Probert. See below

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he

Quoted message said:

uses the word, along with the lies he told. I'll put the lies in

asterisks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

you.

>
> >> When my younger son was born, and we found he had CP prior to his

leaving

Quoted message said:

> >> the hospital, we were angry. We wanted to blame someone.
> >>
> >> We could have, since my wife had visited her ob/gyn a week before

she

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> delivered 11 weeks early, and comlianed of feeling wet

contiuously.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Turns

Quoted message said:

> >> out, he never noticed she was leaking amniotic fluid.
> >>
> >> We spoke with friends, and our Rabbi, who asked us if suing would

make my

Quoted message said:

> >> son normal, and would it make us better parents.
> >>
> >> When we answered no to both questions, we decided it was not worth

the

Quoted message said:

> >> wasting of emotional energy, and we decided to be the best parents

we

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

could
> >> be.
> >>
> >> We have never, ever, regretted that decision, and have never

looked

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back.

Quoted message said:

> >>
> >> And, it is the dirtbags who whine and encourage parents by their

whining

Quoted message said:

to
> >> place blame who really disgust me.
> >>
> >> Especailly the ones who have no basis for it, like the

*****supposedly vaccine
> >> injured kids.******
> >>
> >> Just be the best parents you can be.
> >
> >Vaccine injured kids? Urban myth or reality? Not that it probably

really

Quoted message said:

> >matters to you Mr Probert, but I respect your post here. We learn to

forgive

Quoted message said:

> >the mistakes of others, not for their benefit, but it relieves us of

having

Quoted message said:

> >the burden of a resentment in our hearts. All the best, my combative chum...

Jan wrote:

> So much for Mark's favorite word,,,,,whining.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan is proof of Mark's

denial.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> 909shot.comArticles.htmOpen ↗

Jan

Again, Jan calls a statement that disagrees with her viewpoint a "lie."

She

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

claims to have marked the "lie" with asterisks, i.e.:

That is also a lie.

Quoted message said:

*****supposedly vaccine

Quoted message said:

> >> injured kids.******

Quoted message said:

Then she claims "proof of Mark's denial," is The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan, and
provides a link to The National Vaccine

Information

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Center website, as if that clinches the matter.

Umm, if there were *supposedly* vaccine injured kids that would be no

National

Quoted message said:

Compensation Plan. They are NOT supposed.

Quoted message said:

Even if the existence of a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rhetoric on the linked anti-vac website proved that parents claims of vaccine injury to their
children are valid (they don't), THERE IS NO LIE HERE.

WOW!!!!

You are lying right through your teeth.

Quoted message said:

A lie is an intentionally false statement made to deceive

INDEED!!!!

Quoted message said:

Nothing in Mark's post is intentionally false nor meant to deceive anyone. Thus, NO LIE.

WRONG, AND ANOTHER LIE.

Quoted message said:

There is only an opinion that disagrees with Jan's viewpoint.

You are a liar, and desperate.

Quoted message said:

Jan has been accused of calling disagreements with her "LIES" and thus bearing false witness. She
denies this and challenged us to post

examples.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is the first example.

Of further lies.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Jan will provide more...and I will point them out as they occur.

--Rich

What you pointed out is a lie, and shows what a liar you are.

There are INDDED kids who are injured for life from vaccines.

Nothing supposed about it!!!

< anti-vac propaganda snipped >

Yes, there have been kids injured to varying degrees by vaccines. Mark's "supposed" did not state
nor imply otherwise. The existence of vaccine injured children does not disprove the existence also
of "supposed" injured kids, that is, children who have developed devastating health conditions that
parents MISTAKENLY attribute to vaccines. Mark's point was that energy is better spent being the
best parent possible for the child than in seeking a place to lay the blame for the child's
misfortune. It is an opinion, and even if he were mistaken in his opinion, that would not make it a
lie. THERE IS NO LIE HERE.

Now, example number two. You just called ME a liar for disagreeing with your concept of what
constitutes a lie or a liar. Precisely what statement of mine was false, and whom was it intended to
deceive and for what purpose. I did NOT lie, and I am NOT a liar. But YOU bore false witness and are
a sinner against your own God.

--Rich

(Jan) said:

Well, so solly, Charlie.

Jan

Is there any group that Jan does not have contempt for except White Anglo Saxon Christians??
Let's see: Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Gays, Asians, African Americans. And the list
just keeps growing.

Cue Jan to say that it was a typo:-)))))))))))))) Just watch.

Aloha, Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

I stand by my statement about the supposedly vaccine injured kids, as I was referring to the people
claiming that autism was caused by vaccines.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Rich Shewmaker"
[email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 11:59 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <Peudne443pGnmabdRVn-
[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Rich Shewmaker"
>[email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 6:11 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <EIGdnaOgE-eal6fdRVn-
>[email hidden]>
>
>
>"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040221161013.10134.00000108@mb-
>m17.aol.com...
>> >Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: [email hidden]
>> >Date: 2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <16822-4037B0FB-104@storefull-
>> >3131.bay.webtv.net>
>> >
>> >Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
>> >backing him up.
>>
>> Ho Hum.
>>
>> Another *gang* member.
>>
>> The one who started the *whiner* buzz word is Mark Probert. See

below

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

how

Quoted message said:

>he
>> uses the word, along with the lies he told. I'll put the lies in

asterisks

Quoted message said:

>for
>> you.
>>
>> >
>> > >> When my younger son was born, and we found he had CP prior to

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>leaving
>> > >> the hospital, we were angry. We wanted to blame someone.
>> > >>
>> > >> We could have, since my wife had visited her ob/gyn a week

before

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

she

Quoted message said:

>> > >> delivered 11 weeks early, and comlianed of feeling wet

contiuously.

Quoted message said:

>Turns
>> > >> out, he never noticed she was leaking amniotic fluid.
>> > >>
>> > >> We spoke with friends, and our Rabbi, who asked us if suing

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>make my
>> > >> son normal, and would it make us better parents.
>> > >>
>> > >> When we answered no to both questions, we decided it was not

worth

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>the
>> > >> wasting of emotional energy, and we decided to be the best

parents

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we

Quoted message said:

>> could
>> > >> be.
>> > >>
>> > >> We have never, ever, regretted that decision, and have never

looked

Quoted message said:

>back.
>> > >>
>> > >> And, it is the dirtbags who whine and encourage parents by

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>whining
>> to
>> > >> place blame who really disgust me.
>> > >>
>> > >> Especailly the ones who have no basis for it, like the
>>
>> *****supposedly vaccine
>> > >> injured kids.******
>> > >>
>> > >> Just be the best parents you can be.
>> > >
>> > >Vaccine injured kids? Urban myth or reality? Not that it probably
>really
>> > >matters to you Mr Probert, but I respect your post here. We learn

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>forgive
>> > >the mistakes of others, not for their benefit, but it relieves us

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>having
>> > >the burden of a resentment in our hearts. All the best, my combative chum...
>>
>> Jan wrote:
>>
>> > So much for Mark's favorite word,,,,,whining.
>>
>> The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan is proof of Mark's

denial.

Quoted message said:

>> >
>> > 909shot.comArticles.htmOpen ↗
>>
>> Jan
>
>Again, Jan calls a statement that disagrees with her viewpoint a

"lie."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She

Quoted message said:

>claims to have marked the "lie" with asterisks, i.e.:

That is also a lie.

> *****supposedly vaccine
>> > >> injured kids.******

>Then she claims "proof of Mark's denial," is The National Vaccine

Injury

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Compensation Plan, and provides a link to The National Vaccine

Information

Quoted message said:

>Center website, as if that clinches the matter.

Umm, if there were *supposedly* vaccine injured kids that would be no

National

Quoted message said:

Compensation Plan. They are NOT supposed.

>Even if the existence of a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

>rhetoric on the linked anti-vac website proved that parents claims of vaccine injury to their
>children are valid (they don't), THERE IS NO

LIE

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>HERE.

WOW!!!!

You are lying right through your teeth.

>A lie is an intentionally false statement made to deceive

INDEED!!!!

> Nothing in Mark's post is intentionally false nor meant to deceive anyone. Thus, NO LIE.

WRONG, AND ANOTHER LIE.

>There is only an opinion that disagrees with Jan's viewpoint.
>
You are a liar, and desperate.

>Jan has been accused of calling disagreements with her "LIES" and thus bearing false witness.
>She denies this and challenged us to post

examples.

Quoted message said:

>This is the first example.
>
Of further lies.

>I'm sure Jan will provide more...and I will point them out as they

occur.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>--Rich

What you pointed out is a lie, and shows what a liar you are.

There are INDDED kids who are injured for life from vaccines.

Nothing supposed about it!!!

< anti-vac propaganda snipped >

Yes, there have been kids injured to varying degrees by vaccines. Mark's "supposed" did not state
nor imply otherwise

I beg you pardon.

Suppose

to have a suspicion of

Mark's *supposed* is not only a lie, it was meant to deceive.

<snip rant>

Quoted message said:

Now, example number two. You just called ME a liar for disagreeing with

your

Quoted message said:

concept of what constitutes a lie or a liar

LOLOLOL!!!!

Lie

Quoted message said:

to be untrue with intent to deceive

Quoted message said:

*****supposedly vaccine

Quoted message said:

>> > >> injured kids.******

There is the lie.

It is NOT supposed.

It happens. Your rant to try and cover Mark's lie, shows you LIE with and

for

Quoted message said:

him.

Furthermore your position is clear.

Quoted message said:

I don't give a damn if Peter lied to you, this newsgroup, his mother, or the pope. Rich Shewmaker

You don't give a damn if the *gang* lies. You just don't want Jan to

*call* the

Quoted message said:

lies.

Well, so solly, Charlie.

Jan

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Rich Shewmaker"
[email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 6:11 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <EIGdnaOgE-eal6fdRVn-
[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040221161013.10134.00000108@mb-
m17.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: [email hidden]
> >Date: 2/21/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <16822-4037B0FB-104@storefull-
> >3131.bay.webtv.net>
> >
> >Sounds like the only "whiner" around here is John, with Jan, the Ventriloquist's Dummy,
> >backing him up.
>
> Ho Hum.
>
> Another *gang* member.
>
> The one who started the *whiner* buzz word is Mark Probert. See below

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he
> uses the word, along with the lies he told. I'll put the lies in

asterisks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for
> you.
>
> >
> > >> When my younger son was born, and we found he had CP prior to

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leaving
> > >> the hospital, we were angry. We wanted to blame someone.
> > >>
> > >> We could have, since my wife had visited her ob/gyn a week

before

Quoted message said:

she

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >> delivered 11 weeks early, and comlianed of feeling wet

contiuously.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Turns
> > >> out, he never noticed she was leaking amniotic fluid.
> > >>
> > >> We spoke with friends, and our Rabbi, who asked us if suing

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make my
> > >> son normal, and would it make us better parents.
> > >>
> > >> When we answered no to both questions, we decided it was not

worth

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> > >> wasting of emotional energy, and we decided to be the best

parents

Quoted message said:

we

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> could
> > >> be.
> > >>
> > >> We have never, ever, regretted that decision, and have never

looked

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back.
> > >>
> > >> And, it is the dirtbags who whine and encourage parents by their
whining
> to
> > >> place blame who really disgust me.
> > >>
> > >> Especailly the ones who have no basis for it, like the
>
> *****supposedly vaccine
> > >> injured kids.******
> > >>
> > >> Just be the best parents you can be.
> > >
> > >Vaccine injured kids? Urban myth or reality? Not that it probably
really
> > >matters to you Mr Probert, but I respect your post here. We learn

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

forgive
> > >the mistakes of others, not for their benefit, but it relieves us

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

having
> > >the burden of a resentment in our hearts. All the best, my combative chum...

Note that I did not write the words "vaccine injured kids". ....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Jan wrote:
>
> > So much for Mark's favorite word,,,,,whining.
>
> The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan is proof of Mark's

denial.

Jan just has to jump all over me every time she sees my name, even though I have not written the
words she whines about.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > 909shot.comArticles.htmOpen ↗
>
> Jan

Again, Jan calls a statement that disagrees with her viewpoint a "lie."

She

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

claims to have marked the "lie" with asterisks, i.e.:

That is also a lie.

Quoted message said:

*****supposedly vaccine
> > >> injured kids.******

I di dnot write those words. the original article does not contain them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then she claims "proof of Mark's denial," is The National Vaccine

Injury

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Compensation Plan, and provides a link to The National Vaccine

Information

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Center website, as if that clinches the matter.

Umm, if there were *supposedly* vaccine injured kids that would be no

National

Quoted message said:

Compensation Plan. They are NOT supposed.

Quoted message said:

Even if the existence of a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Plan

and

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rhetoric on the linked anti-vac website proved that parents claims of vaccine injury to their
children are valid (they don't), THERE IS NO

LIE

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HERE.

WOW!!!!

You are lying right through your teeth.

Quoted message said:

A lie is an intentionally false statement made to deceive

INDEED!!!!

And nothing I posted was a lie. Jan cannot prove any of MY WORDS are a lie. If she wants torfute
this, she had better make certain that she is citing my words.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nothing in Mark's post is intentionally false nor meant to deceive anyone. Thus, NO LIE.

WRONG, AND ANOTHER LIE.

Right, and if you read my posts in the original, you would see that. If you disagree, cite my
original posts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is only an opinion that disagrees with Jan's viewpoint.

You are a liar, and desperate.

Quoted message said:

Jan has been accused of calling disagreements with her "LIES" and thus bearing false witness.
She denies this and challenged us to post

examples.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is the first example.

Of further lies.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Jan will provide more...and I will point them out as they

occur.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Rich

What you pointed out is a lie, and shows what a liar you are.

There are INDDED kids who are injured for life from vaccines.

Nothing supposed about it!!!

Note that I never said supposed....

Quoted message said:

< anti-vac propaganda snipped >

Yes, there have been kids injured to varying degrees by vaccines. Mark's "supposed" did not state
nor imply otherwise. The existence of vaccine injured children does not disprove the existence
also of "supposed"

injured

Quoted message said:

kids, that is, children who have developed devastating health conditions that parents MISTAKENLY
attribute to vaccines. Mark's point was that

energy

Quoted message said:

is better spent being the best parent possible for the child than in

seeking

Quoted message said:

a place to lay the blame for the child's misfortune. It is an opinion, and even if he were
mistaken in his opinion, that would not make it a lie.

THERE

Quoted message said:

IS NO LIE HERE.

Jan will never see that.

Quoted message said:

Now, example number two. You just called ME a liar for disagreeing with

your

Quoted message said:

concept of what constitutes a lie or a liar. Precisely what statement of mine was false, and whom
was it intended to deceive and for what purpose.

I

Quoted message said:

did NOT lie, and I am NOT a liar. But YOU bore false witness and are a sinner against your
own God.

Rich, you are another Don Quixote....

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:01:16 GMT, "Mark Probert-February 23, 2004"

Mark said:

I stand by my statement about the supposedly vaccine injured kids, as I was referring to the people
claiming that autism was caused by vaccines.

Jan is just creating a strawman argument. She is misinterpreting (probably deliberately) your
statement as meaning that you doubt any injuries are caused by vaccines as opposed to questioning
any specific claim of vaccine damage.

To Jan EVERY claim of vaccine damage is a valid claim. If this is not true I have NEVER seen Jan
question whether a claim of vaccine damage was valid. She likely does this, IMO, not because she
believes it but because it advances her anti-conventional medicine agenda.

Jan often does this in order to discredit those with whom she disagrees. She has no integrity. She
is deceitful, dishonest, manipulative to name just a few of her characteristics.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

"Mark Probert-February 23, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Rich, you are another Don Quixote....

Yes, alas, I agree. Explaining logic to Jan is like trying to teach my cat calculus.

--Rich

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Mark Probert-February
23, 2004"

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Date: 2/24/2004 4:01 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

I stand by my statement about the supposedly vaccine injured kids, as I

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

referring to the people claiming that autism was caused by vaccines.

Yeah, well standing behind what you say means nothing.

Wrong. It means that I know what I am talking about.

Quoted message said:

Unlike you I have proof.

Wrong. There is not one scintilla of proof that vaccination has anything to do with causing
autism. Not one.

Jan's bilge snipped.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lancet 'Regrets' Publishing Controversial MMR Report From: "Mark Probert-February
23, 2004"

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Date: 2/24/2004 4:01 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

I stand by my statement about the supposedly vaccine injured kids, as I

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

referring to the people claiming that autism was caused by vaccines.

==
Note that I did not write the words "vaccine injured kids". ....
===
even though I have not written the words she whines about.
==
I di dnot write those words. the original article does not contain them.
===
Note that I never said supposed....

LOLOLOL!!

The story keeps changing

Poor Mark, does he know what he wrote?????

First he stands by them

Sequence order...

I originally could not find a post of mine on Google which had those words and said that I did not
say them. In the thread, I did not say them.

After checking further, it was clear that you had selectively snipped my words into the thread and I
stood by them.

And, Janny, I stand by them. There is NO proof whatsoever that vaccination has anything to do with
causing autism.

Anyone saying anything to the contrary is a liar.

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2004' Mark Probert02-23- said:

I stand by my statement about the supposedly vaccine injured kids, as I

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

referring to the people claiming that autism was caused by vaccines.

Jan is just creating a strawman argument. She is misinterpreting (probably deliberately) your
statement as meaning that you doubt any injuries are caused by vaccines as opposed to questioning
any specific claim of vaccine damage.

Exactly why I stated what I did. She removed my words from the original context, and then mis-
interpreted them. She is a well known intellectually dishonest liar who does that. After reviewing
the entire thread on Google, and the original thread where she took my words, I have NO DOUBT that
she knew what she was doing.

Quoted message said:

To Jan EVERY claim of vaccine damage is a valid claim. If this is not true I have NEVER seen Jan
question whether a claim of vaccine damage was valid. She likely does this, IMO, not because she
believes it but because it advances her anti-conventional medicine agenda.

I often wonder why she wants to see dead children. Right now, as of last evening, my younger son is
dealing with the loss of his freind, Dennis, who goes to school and sporting events with him. We
visited with his family last evening, and I saw the pain and agony of parents who spent 15 years
raising a special child, a hard job under the best of circumstances, who are now dealing with the
pain of their loss. (We have no idea why Dennis died, just that he did).

Quoted message said:

Jan often does this in order to discredit those with whom she disagrees. She has no integrity. She
is deceitful, dishonest, manipulative to name just a few of her characteristics.

Agreed. You were kind in your wordage.