Language as biodiversity

Morris Carré <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
matter ? Doesn't E.T. link intraspecific diversity of heritable traits to the immediate potential
of a species to evolve - giving a central role to what's but a component of biodiversity ? Can
language be observed to evolve in a similar manner ? If not, how is it relevant ?

TIA, Morris Carré

A person's genes don't predispose them to learning any particular language. A Chinese baby raised
among English speakers learns English in the same way that any English baby does. There are no genes
implicated in language diversity.

Languages change and there are often discernable patterns in that change (look at any book on
historical linguistics), but this change can also be cyclic going through a number of grammatical
possibilities only to return to an earlier scheme. This suggests that selection may not play a very
important role, which would make this kind of change the cultural equivalent of genetic drift (i.e.,
memetic drift).

H.

---
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<< A person's genes don't predispose them to learning any particular language. A Chinese baby raised
among English speakers learns English in the same way that any English baby does. There are no genes
implicated in language diversity. >>

That is true, but it is also true that there is a period in early childhood where language skills
can be learned like a native - with the skill of a native speaker. And when that phase passes, that
ability is lost for good.

Is that Landmarkian?

Morris Carr? <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
matter ?

Languages count as part of human biodiversity.

"Bio" means "life" in Latin - and the diversity of languages is indeed part of the
diversity of life.
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"Huck Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Morris Carré <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of

evolution

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

theory on the matter ? Doesn't E.T. link intraspecific diversity of

heritable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

traits to the immediate potential of a species to evolve - giving a

central

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

role to what's but a component of biodiversity ? Can language be observed

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

evolve in a similar manner ? If not, how is it relevant ?

TIA, Morris Carré

A person's genes don't predispose them to learning any particular language. A Chinese baby raised
among English speakers learns English in the same way that any English baby does. There are no
genes implicated in language diversity.

Languages change and there are often discernable patterns in that change (look at any book on
historical linguistics), but this change can also be cyclic going through a number of grammatical
possibilities only to return to an earlier scheme. This suggests that selection may not play a
very important role, which would make this kind of change the cultural equivalent of genetic drift
(i.e., memetic drift).

H.

---
Like-minds don't notice shared mistakes. Talk to someone else.

Language can be studied from a number of different perspectives. Anthropologists, Linguists,
Philologists, Information theorists, Alternative species language aka Primates, Cetaceans, etc, etc.
etc. Brent Wegher

Tim Tyler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Morris Carr? <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
matter ?

Languages count as part of human biodiversity.

"Bio" means "life" in Latin - and the diversity of languages is indeed part of the diversity
of life.

By this reckoning, any kind of diversity in the knowledge or beliefs that humans have would count as
biodiversity. The same would be true of knowledge held by other animals, say a rat who knows how to
traverse a particular maze versus another that doesn't. They would have a different mental state so
this would also be a case of biodiversity.

I'm much more comfortable using this term in connection with genetic differences.

H.

---
Like-minds don't notice shared mistakes. Talk to someone else.

[email hidden] (TomHendricks474) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

<< A person's genes don't predispose them to learning any particular language. A Chinese baby
raised among English speakers learns English in the same way that any English baby does. There are
no genes implicated in language diversity. >>

That is true, but it is also true that there is a period in early childhood where language skills
can be learned like a native - with the skill of a native speaker. And when that phase passes,
that ability is lost for good.

There is a critical period for language acquisition within which children can learn one or more
languages with native proficiency. After this period, second language learning becomes much more
difficult and proceeds in a different way. There are critical periods in the development of other
systems too, like the visual system so that if a baby is deprived of visual stimuli in early life
(say because it is born with cataracts), its visual cortex will not develop properly and so it won't
be able to see even when the cataracts are removed.

Quoted message said:

Is that Landmarkian?

I guess you mean 'Lamarkian' and no it's not, because there is no inheritance of acquired
characteristics.

H.

---
Like-minds don't notice shared mistakes. Talk to someone else.

Tim Tyler <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c16tv6$270f$1
@darwin.ediacara.org:

Quoted message said:

Morris Carr? <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
matter ?

Languages count as part of human biodiversity.

"Bio" means "life" in Latin - and the diversity of languages is indeed part of the diversity
of life.

Tim is exactly right. And the tragedy is we are losing language diversity much faster than we are
losing species diversity. In some cases the loss may be unimportant - the language is very similar
to another, with no new concepts. In other cases the loss may forever eliminate a unique way of
looking at the world. One doesn't want to get too sentimental - another asteroid impact could wipe
out all of human history - but it wouldn't hurt to spend more time studying the many dying languages
before they are gone forever.

Yours,

Bill Morse

Huck Turner <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Tim Tyler said:

Morris Carr? <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
matter ?

Languages count as part of human biodiversity.

"Bio" means "life" in Latin - and the diversity of languages is indeed part of the diversity
of life.

By this reckoning, any kind of diversity in the knowledge or beliefs that humans have would count
as biodiversity. The same would be true of knowledge held by other animals, say a rat who knows
how to traverse a particular maze versus another that doesn't. They would have a different mental
state so this would also be a case of biodiversity.

Just so:

``A shortened form of biological diversity, referring to the variety and variability of living
organisms and the ecological complexes in which they occur.''

``The variety of plant and animal life. Also known as biological diversity, is an umbrella term used
to describe the number, variety and variability of living organisms in a given assemblage.''

Quoted message said:

I'm much more comfortable using this term in connection with genetic differences.

Why not refer to those as "genetic diversity"?

After all - there's more to life than genetics.
--
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Tim Tyler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Huck Turner <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Tim Tyler said:

Morris Carr? <[email hidden]> wrote or quoted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Should language diversity count as biodiversity ? What's the word of evolution theory on the
> matter ?

Languages count as part of human biodiversity.

"Bio" means "life" in Latin - and the diversity of languages is indeed part of the diversity
of life.

By this reckoning, any kind of diversity in the knowledge or beliefs that humans have would
count as biodiversity. The same would be true of knowledge held by other animals, say a rat who
knows how to traverse a particular maze versus another that doesn't. They would have a different
mental state so this would also be a case of biodiversity.

Just so:

``A shortened form of biological diversity, referring to the variety and variability of living
organisms and the ecological complexes in which they occur.''

``The variety of plant and animal life. Also known as biological diversity, is an umbrella term
used to describe the number, variety and variability of living organisms in a given assemblage.''

As far as I've always understood the term, an environment that contains a greater variety of species
exhibits more biodiversity. The word seems to be used in connection with discussions about threats
to ecologies arising from reduced biodiversity (i.e., arising from extinctions). The definitions you
cite appear to be consistent with that usage.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm much more comfortable using this term in connection with genetic differences.

Why not refer to those as "genetic diversity"?

We sometimes need to make it clear whether we are talking about genetic diversity within a species
or within an environment. I would use "genetic variation" for the former and "biodiversity" for
the latter.

Quoted message said:

After all - there's more to life than genetics.

No quibble with that.

H.

---
Like-minds don't notice shared mistakes. Talk to someone else.