Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

Given that daylight fades by 5 p.m. You need to aim to be off the fells by 4
p.m. to allow a safety margin. With boys of this age I would set off as early as you can in the
morning to allow for any eventualities and the weary trudge of tired youngsters who do not have
the stamina of older people.

The weather forecast is for cloud and potentially some rain so you may have some navigation issues -
certainly a map and compass job if the cloud is thick.

Naismiths rule will tell you the average timing you should expect for a fit adult. You then need to
factor in extra time according to your expectations from your boys. If you don't know how to do this
then I would avoid this route this weekend, especially with boys that age. Leave the first attempt
for better weather. The current fell conditions on Helvellyn reports snow patches and recommends
full winter gear should be taken.

I'm not wanting to be a kill joy but this is a long route in good conditions and young kids die
easily. Be sure you can get them out of anything you put them into.

Ron

"Frank Weaver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike for the first time. My wife is
ill at the moment so I'll just be doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too hard but want to ensure we get
up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill Force - Sty Head - Corridor
Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

Frank

"Frank Weaver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike for the first time. My wife is
ill at the moment so I'll just be doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too hard but want to ensure we get
up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill Force - Sty Head - Corridor
Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

Frank

My gut reaction to this question is "If you have to ask it, you should not be planning such a walk".
However my considered response is you need to ask yourself the following questions.

How fit are you and your lads. Also how much experience of walking have your lads got? One of the
things I discovered with my sons when they were that age was the fact that they can be fit but lack
stamina, though a chocolate biscuit every half hour did help. From my experience stamina is built up
over time, through experience.

How have you and your sons faired when you have done other walks? I would compare their times on
other walks with the corresponding Naismith time and use that as guide.

According to my bit of string, it's just over 13km so let's round that to 14km and assuming I have
not miscounted the contours, it's about 910m of height gain. This gives a Naismith time of 259
minutes. I would include as an absolute minimum an extra 10% for stoppage time.

Other factors to be aware of, is, time of year and weather conditions. You need to be prepared for
snow and ice. I am assuming you are not experienced winter walkers and so you need to be prepared to
turn back if conditions are unsafe for your level of skill and experience. How are your navigation
skills in thick mist? Its amazing how much time can be spent taking and checking bearings in thick
fog and the effect that fog can have on your walking speed if your are not totally confident in the
route to follow.

In the end only you can really answer the question you have asked. If the conditions are right and
you are all fit, you'll get round no problem. If there are fitness problems and poor conditions you
may struggle.

Regards

Bernard

In message <[email hidden]>, Frank Weaver
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Thanks for your advice chaps. No problems on the fitness front for the boys (and as long as my old
hamstrings keep working I'll be ok).

So what commensurate walks have you done at this time of year with your boys to be confident about
this? Unless you have done 14km distance and 1000m of ascent you DO NOT KNOW whether it will be a
problem. Now this sort of walk has to be done on a first occasion, but one would expect a certain
amount of caution to temper the optimism.

Quoted message said:

Navigation shouldn't be a problem either - haven't had much need of it for previous walks & climbs
but years of sailing experience should see us through ok - when at sea we always turn back if it
looks dodgy - so we won't be taking unnecessary risks

W&£%$E(&IFPO*{)PN@{_!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are kidding aren't you?

You don't seriously believe that ability to navigate sailing can be translated into expertise on
the hills?

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at sea with no problem because
he was used to walking would you believe him?

The two tasks are quite different and have different problems.

--
Michael Farthing cyclades Software House

Thanks for your advice chaps. No problems on the fitness front for the boys (and as long as my old
hamstrings keep working I'll be ok). Navigation shouldn't be a problem either - haven't had much
need of it for previous walks & climbs but years of sailing experience should see us through ok -
when at sea we always turn back if it looks dodgy - so we won't be taking unnecessary risks

Quoted message said:

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at sea with no problem
because he was used to walking would you believe him?

No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb

In message <[email hidden]>, RJ Webb
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at sea with no problem
because he was used to walking would you believe him?

No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill navigation.

Gaelic is harder to learn than Esperanto (1), but an expert in Gaelic cannot therefore assume he can
immediately speak Esperanto without any practice.

Quoted message said:

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb

I wasn't meaning to suggest he shouldn't do it, but it did strike me that he seemed a little unaware
of, or was too glibly discounting, some of the potential problems.

Notes
-----
1. If you haven't looked at Gaelic, rest assured, it is an impossible language.

--
Michael Farthing cyclades Software House

"RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb

But on sea you don't encounter ravines, gills, streams you can't wade through when in spate,
rockwalls you can't climb, icy patches (normally), snowfields etc. They can make you go the way your
navigationskills say not to go.

Theo

RJ Webb <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at sea with no problem
because he was used to walking would you believe him?

No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

But write the trip report first - just in case. 8-)
--
Gordon

Quoted message said:

We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike for the first time. My wife is
ill at the moment so I'll just be doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

Dont forget to get the weather from the National Park Weatherline on 017687 75757. Updated for the
following day after 5:00pm. Good forecast for the Fells with such things as wind speed, temp,
cloud cover and wind-chill factor for 3000ft (Scafell Pike region). Also, take a look at the
weather forecast at www.wasdaleweb.co.uk, again a good indication of conditions. Included is a 72
hour forecast.

Quoted message said:

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too hard but want to ensure we get
up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill Force - Sty Head - Corridor
Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

This is the route Clare and I do as it is generally quieter than via Esk Huase, however, it isn't an
easy route for the unfamiliar. The path is mostly over rocks which can be difficlut to see in baad
weather. There is one rocky step to go down just before Piers Gill, onto a ledge, which requires
care. Will be worse if ice on the rocks. Also, easy to miss the path up the final section of Scafell
Pike from Lingmell Col if the visibility is poor. Path is not very clear on the ground.

Quoted message said:

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

This would be the route I would use, up and down, for the first time if unsure at this time of year.
Although, again, in poor visibilty it requires care from Calf Cove around Broad Crag to the col
above Little Narrowcove

Quoted message said:

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

If you want to get a feel for the route, take a look at the Lake District photos on my website from
previous trips via the Corridor Route.

It is a good walk out .... but as always on the Fells, treat them with respect.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still brings
the same excitement'

In message <[email hidden]>, Frank Weaver
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

It's exactly these sort of responses that I'm sure puts a lot of people off asking.

If you only want replies that confirm your views then what's the point of asking? You got my honest
assessment. You can take note; just ignore it or ignore it and complain that it isn't what you
wanted to hear. OK if you go for the last and it puts you off asking then you've saved yourself and
everyone else a bit of effort.

Quoted message said:

I'm certainly not being glib about it and will obviously be taking a lot of care - otherwise I
would not have asked people with the knowledge in the first place.

By mentioning my sailing experience I was trying to show that I have a bit of experience of
situations, a bit of sense and might cope with problems that might hit us. Mainly I will be as
prepared as much as I can

No, I haven't done it before, I'm sure it won't be easy BUT I have done my research

Well, as I say, that's not how it seemed to me. And you didn't like me saying so. Tough. I'm
not going to start lying just to please you: it would short change those that ask and listen to
the replies.

--
Michael Farthing cyclades Software House

It's exactly these sort of responses that I'm sure puts a lot of people off asking.

I'm certainly not being glib about it and will obviously be taking a lot of care - otherwise I would
not have asked people with the knowledge in the first place.

By mentioning my sailing experience I was trying to show that I have a bit of experience of
situations, a bit of sense and might cope with problems that might hit us. Mainly I will be as
prepared as much as I can

No, I haven't done it before, I'm sure it won't be easy BUT I have done my research

"Frank Weaver" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's exactly these sort of responses that I'm sure puts a lot of people off asking.

I'm certainly not being glib about it and will obviously be taking a lot of care - otherwise I
would not have asked people with the knowledge in the first place.

So long as you have got the right attitude and a bit of common sense the fells of the Lake District
aren't the scary place some would have you believe. From looking at the weather forecasts and
webcams it seems unlikely that you will encounter desperate winter conditions next week and you no
doubt won't be alone up there should you need any guidance. As for time, the book I've got suggests
5-7 hours (not counting stops) for a similar circuit taking in the Corridor Route starting from
Wasdale Head rather than Seathwaite (is that a bit shorter maybe?, I don't have a map to hand) and
you have what, about 10 hours of daylight at the moment. Start early and have a good walk.

AndyP said:

"Frank Weaver" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's exactly these sort of responses that I'm sure puts a lot of people off asking.

I'm certainly not being glib about it and will obviously be taking a lot of care - otherwise I
would not have asked people with the knowledge in the first place.

So long as you have got the right attitude and a bit of common sense the fells of the Lake District
aren't the scary place some would have you believe. From looking at the weather forecasts and
webcams it seems unlikely that you will encounter desperate winter conditions next week and you no
doubt won't be alone up there should you need any guidance. As for time, the book I've got suggests
5-7 hours (not counting stops) for a similar circuit taking in the Corridor Route starting from
Wasdale Head rather than Seathwaite (is that a bit shorter maybe?, I don't have a map to hand) and
you have what, about 10 hours of daylight at the moment. Start early and have a good walk.

I agree. It's light enough to walk without a torch for nearly 11 hours. If the weather looks like
being grim/icy, you could always use Esk Hause both ways. If you're used to navigating then the
chances are, if it's misty, that you will be helping someone else at Esk Hause
- it's notorious for people getting lost!

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Frank Weaver
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

It's exactly these sort of responses that I'm sure puts a lot of people off asking.

I'm certainly not being glib about it and will obviously be taking a lot of care - otherwise I
would not have asked people with the knowledge in the first place.

By mentioning my sailing experience I was trying to show that I have a bit of experience of
situations, a bit of sense and might cope with problems that might hit us. Mainly I will be as
prepared as much as I can

No, I haven't done it before, I'm sure it won't be easy BUT I have done my research

just wondering whether Taylor Gill Force is doggable. It's a bit sort of scrambly.

--
Ken

In article <[email hidden]>, sandy saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

This is the route Clare and I do as it is generally quieter than via Esk Huase, however, it isn't
an easy route for the unfamiliar. The path is mostly over rocks which can be difficlut to see in
baad weather. There is one rocky step to go down just before Piers Gill, onto a ledge, which
requires care. Will be worse if ice on the rocks. Also, easy to miss the path up the final section
of Scafell Pike from Lingmell Col if the visibility is poor. Path is not very clear on the ground.

I thought I saw a made up path (at the start) when I was there last September. I wasn't paying
attention at the time as I was on my way to Hollow Stones.

Quoted message said:

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still brings the same excitement'

--
Ken

sandy saunders wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:20:50 -0000....

[Frank Weaver:]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike for the first time. My wife
is ill at the moment so I'll just be doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

Dont forget to get the weather from the National Park Weatherline on 017687 75757. Updated for the
following day after 5:00pm. Good forecast for the Fells with such things as wind speed, temp,
cloud cover and wind-chill factor for 3000ft (Scafell Pike region). Also, take a look at the
weather forecast at www.wasdaleweb.co.uk, again a good indication of conditions. Included is a 72
hour forecast.

I think the weather forecast is the key to this trip. Adjust your plans according to what it says.

If it's good, you'll no doubt have an excellent time, and you'll be exclaiming about what a lot of
ninnies there are in u.r.w. who tried to persuade you against it.

But if there's snow, ice and/or mist, then what people have said elsewhere in this thread
is all true.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill Force - Sty Head -
Corridor Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

A great route in good conditions. The path up the right-hand side of Taylorgill Force is a little
scrambly, which personally I enjoy. But if you want this can be avoided by taking the well-made path
from Stockley Bridge to Sty Head on the other side of the Force.

Quoted message said:

This is the route Clare and I do as it is generally quieter than via Esk Huase,

Well, I'm sure there'll be people around, especially at Sty Head.

Quoted message said:

however, it isn't an easy route for the unfamiliar. The path is mostly over rocks which can be
difficlut to see in baad weather. There is one rocky step to go down just before Piers Gill, onto
a ledge, which requires care. Will be worse if ice on the rocks. Also, easy to miss the path up
the final section of Scafell Pike from Lingmell Col if the visibility is poor. Path is not very
clear on the ground.

This advice is spot on. (The rocky step is just before Greta Gill, which is a short distance before
Piers Gill.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

This would be the route I would use, up and down, for the first time if unsure at this time of
year. Although, again, in poor visibilty it requires care from Calf Cove around Broad Crag to the
col above Little Narrowcove

Again, I think this advice is spot on. In bad weather, this is the way I would probably go myself,
but I'd be wary about taking the kids.

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

I was after honest advice & opinions since I haven't attempted this walk/climb before - I'm sure
many have done it without outside help

I am really grateful for all of that - including the actual content of yours

Maybe it was your high-handed delivery that was unnecessary

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I agree. It's light enough to walk without a torch for nearly 11 hours. If the weather looks like
being grim/icy, you could always use Esk Hause both ways. If you're used to navigating then the
chances are, if it's misty, that you will be helping someone else at Esk Hause
- it's notorious for people getting lost!

Indeed.

Ian.

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - mailgate.orgmailgate.orgOpen ↗

Thanks for that Sandy - I had come across your site eariler in the week - great pictures