Drafting etiquette

When racing, not to do a turn at the front is a big no no. Commuting I think the rules are a bit
more relaxed. The only thing you should never do is catch someone, draft them and then pass & shoot
away from them. That is not looked upon kindly. P

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about kg) which gives me all the
aerodynamics of a brick.

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I gratefully tuck in and
take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by hanging on the the rear tyre
of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my
little peggies off till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

--
Cheers Euan

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Quoted message said:

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by hanging on the the rear tyre
of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I

can

Quoted message said:

return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off till the other rider gets fed
up with my lack of pace and over takes again.

If you see him/her regularly, maybe just ask for a tow? Or, get a tow and then thank them for it
before you peel off. If they don't like you sitting on, they will generally try their hardest to
drop you - as long as they know you are there - which they should because you said "hi" to them,
right? :-)

hippy

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about kg) which gives me all the
aerodynamics of a brick.

All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add fairings. How about using a rack bag (for
heavy bits) and backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-bars too.

Quoted message said:

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I gratefully tuck in and
take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by

The drivers think you are a freeloader already. (see other thread) Who cares?

Quoted message said:

hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can return the favor, all be
it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace
and over takes again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

I wish there was one. Some morons think you are slowing them down by drafting. Others resent it as
invasion of personal space. I guess the answer is to ask, or just say hi and see their reaction.

Are you talking cycleways? roads? cycle lanes? (and yes, its bad to draft closely in traffic, or
near intersections. Lets not go over that again.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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>> "Mike" == Mike <[email hidden]> writes:

Mike said:

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about kg) which gives me
all the aerodynamics of a brick.

Mike> All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add fairings. How about using a
Mike> rack bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars,
Mike> or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which fills one Ortelieb pannier to
capacity. The other one has change of clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks a day
would get tiring real fast.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I gratefully tuck in
and take advantage of the draft. Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a
freeloader by

Mike> The drivers think you are a freeloader already. (see other thread) Who cares?

Ah yes, the they don't even pay rego brigade.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can return the favor, all
be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off till the other rider gets fed up with my lack
of pace and over takes again. What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

Mike> I wish there was one. Some morons think you are slowing them down by drafting. Others
Mike> resent it as invasion of personal space. I guess the answer is to ask, or just say hi and
Mike> see their reaction.

Mike> Are you talking cycleways? roads? cycle lanes? (and yes, its bad to draft closely in
Mike> traffic, or near intersections. Lets not go over that again.)

Main roads such as Nepean, Esplanade etc, North Road etc. I get about a bit.
--
Cheers Euan

Quoted message said:

Mike> fairings. How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will
Mike> dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which fills one Ortelieb pannier
to capacity. The other one has change of clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks
a day would get tiring real fast.

I'm not brave enough to carry the laptop in a pannier, so use a backpack.

If you could somehow carry all your gear behind you, instead of sticking out sideways into the air,
the ride mighty be less tiring. Sorry to wander so OT.

Mike is right. When I did this move over a year ago, the effect was obvious. It's not just the gain in aerodynamics, but the handling. My heavy panniers unsettled the bike at bumpy curves. It's a lot better with the right backpack. However, the centre of gravity will rise, which takes a little getting used to.

My load weighs anything between 6-10 kg. I use a 30L Berghaus bag which straps on properly. It also has a the construct keeping the flat surface of the bag away from my back helping with less perspiration.

As long as drafting goes, I always think about it when I see people do it in a variety of ways. Personally, I commute for the work out. Drafting would defeat that idea, wouldn't it?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mike

B said:

Mike> fairings. How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will
Mike> dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which fills one Ortelieb pannier
to capacity. The other one has change of clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks
a day would get tiring real fast.

I'm not brave enough to carry the laptop in a pannier, so use a backpack.

If you could somehow carry all your gear behind you, instead of sticking out sideways into the air,
the ride mighty be less tiring. Sorry to wander so OT. [/B]

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which fills one Ortelieb pannier
to capacity. The other one has change of clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks
a day would get tiring real fast.

It's not that bad. I do 50ks [1] 2-3 days a week [2] with laptop and clothes. The trick is to strip
down what you carry as much as possible
- I have a second set of shoes at work, I leave my shower gear there as long as possible, and I
carry a minimum of gear. It's still heavy, but it doesn't kill me, therefore it makes me stronger.

Dave - who has a rack on that bike, but the pack doesn't mount on it very well

[1] 23 in, 27 home. I avoid nasty traffic by going the longer, hillier way on the way home.
[2] Hmm, I'm surprised Michael "Dr Evil" Costa isn't trying to charge me for the enforced get fit
program that could see this jump to 5 days a week...

--
Dave Hughes [email hidden] "We live in the interface between radioactive molten rock and
hard vacuum and we worry about safety." -- Chris Hunt

drafting whilst commuting inevitably means shorter spurts as you get lost/drop someone at the next lights or change route

drafting someone you arent familiar with is probably the worst part as oyu have no real knowledge (apart from a guess as to their bike and the look of their legs) of how good this person is in traffic or around other riders

You really have to be aware of what's in front of them unless they are experienced and considerate enough to signal to you about that upcoming parked car, etc

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Random" == Random Data <[email hidden]> writes:

Random> [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Random> It's not that bad. I do 50ks [1] 2-3 days a week [2] with laptop and clothes. The trick
Random> is to strip down what you carry as much as possible - I have a second set of shoes at
Random> work, I leave my shower gear there as long as possible, and I carry a minimum of gear.
Random> It's still heavy, but it doesn't kill me, therefore it makes me stronger.

Ex military, past master at stripping down ;-)

Trouble is that I work in three different locations; in two of those locations there's no set space
for me if you know what I mean.

--
Cheers Euan

"Paulus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When racing, not to do a turn at the front is a big no no.

[snip]

What are you on about ? Where do you race and who told you that ? There are guys who make a living
in races, from hack club races to the TdF NEVER doing a turn at the front, and they are genreally
called sprinters.

It's perfectly acceptable part of racing not to pull a turn. Unless you are part of a break, or
chasing a break, or stringing the bunch out to pop off the sprinters, why waste the energy ? There
is always some sap who'll pull the turns, never to be seen come podium time.

It is a race afterall.

Unless it's a handicap race, of course.

rickster wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

It's perfectly acceptable part of racing not to pull a turn. Unless you are part of a break, or
chasing a break, or stringing the bunch out to pop off the sprinters, why waste the energy ? There
is always some sap who'll pull the turns, never to be seen come podium time.

It is a race afterall.

Unless it's a handicap race, of course.

And even in h'cap races, not everyone pulls turns ... often because they are flat out hanging on.
Been there! :-)

&roo

"amirm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Mike is right. When I did this move over a year ago, the effect was obvious. It's not just the
gain in aerodynamics, but the handling. My heavy panniers unsettled the bike at bumpy curves.

Spend the money to get better panniers, a better rack and pack the bags securely.

Quoted message said:

It's a lot better with the right backpack. However, the centre of gravity will rise, which takes a
little getting used to.

Lower centr of gravity with panniers makes for much better stability than a backpack. Not to mention
the lack of a sweaty back.

Cheers Peter

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add fairings. How about using a rack
bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-
bars too.

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply transferring the brick to a
higher location.

Cheers Peter

Number one rule is NO FARTING ! 8-)
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about kg) which gives me all the
aerodynamics of a brick.

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I gratefully tuck in and
take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by hanging on the the rear tyre
of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my
little peggies off till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

--
Cheers Euan

Peter Signorini said:

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply transferring the brick to a
higher location.

Brick? Weight is of little importance, unless you are hill climbing, or stop/starting a lot. It's
drag, which is proportional to frontal cross-section area that matters. Putting bags in the "wind
shadow" of your body makes the ride easier (or faster). Of course, if you are in the city, stopping
and starting, and with hills, you are so slow anyway, it doesnt make much difference.

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply transferring the brick to
a higher location.

Brick? Weight is of little importance, unless you are hill climbing, or stop/starting a lot. It's
drag, which is proportional to frontal cross-section area that matters. Putting bags in the "wind
shadow" of your body makes the ride easier (or faster).

That is exactly my point. Lot's of riders cycle with a backpack on then bend into a tuck with your
drop bars. They don't seem to realise that they may be cancelling out any aero benefits. You may be
OK with a pack that sits low down, but lots use backpacks that are high on their shoulders and stick
up into the slipstream once they get into a tuck. There's really not much aerodynamic advantage over
panniers then, and lots of disadvantages.

Cheers Peter