BG level or BG difference?

In article said:

In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

You want to consider both. We all have goals that we try to achieve with PP tests. The American
Association of Clinical Endocrinologists recommends 140 or less; many people here aim for something
lower than that.

But, of course, if your pre-meal test was 180, for example, you're not likely to be 140 after
eating. So while you're looking at getting your overall numbers down to an acceptable range you can
look at what an individual meal does to you. I don't recall seeing any clinical recommendations on
this. In my own mind, I'm thinking that a 40 point rise is reasonable (e.g., from 100 pre-meal to
140 after two hours; from 180 pre-meal to 220 after two hours). I'm guessing that the people who
want to be 120 or less after two hours would recommend no more than a 20 point rise.

So in short, you want to stay at 140 or less after two hours (120 or less per Jennifer and others).
But in considering whether a particular meal "spikes" you, I would consider a 20-40 point rise to be
reasonable.

--
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace...
where there is hatred, let me sow love.

remove "spamtrap" for e-mail

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Ideally, you should be <110 fasting, <140 at one hour after
eating and <120 at two hours after eating. I should add that these numbers can vary from person to
person and their individual circumstance, but these numbers would apply to most people with type 2.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

Julie Bove said:

I'm not sure I understand your question. Ideally, you should be ... <140 at one hour after eating
and <120 at two hours after eating.

The point is that this is easier to achieve if I'm 80 before I eat than if I'm 110 before I eat. Jon

well, for me, if I start out high, I end up higher after dinner than if I was under control before
eating. I've no clue why your results are different.

dave

Preston Rich said:

In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

-Preston

Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average low
before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A T2
deabetic, my daily medians...

pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
bedtime 99

Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

-Preston

Bay Area Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

well, for me, if I start out high, I end up higher after dinner than if I was under control before
eating. I've no clue why your results are different.

dave

Preston Rich said:

In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

-Preston

Preston Rich <[email hidden]> quoth:

Quoted message said:

Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
T2 deabetic, my daily medians...

Quoted message said:

pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
bedtime 99

Quoted message said:

Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

Quoted message said:

Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

I can understand why oatmeal might spike that high, but bacon & eggs? There's almost no carb in
that. Do you wait a while after getting up before you eat? I'm thinking a liver dump might have
already been triggered by the time you ate if you waited around for a bit.

Priscilla, T2, diet & metformin, A1c 5.2

On 9 Feb 2004 07:51:32 -0800, [email hidden] (Preston Rich)

Quoted message said:

Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
T2 deabetic, my daily medians...

pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
bedtime 99

Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

-Preston

Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For myself,
bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG of 90 (5)
to 180 (10) on oatmeal.

If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.

If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern emerges
based on that.

I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a couple of
factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was initially
high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will have
mentioned.

In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
(5.5).

But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even had
to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.

I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20 w/the
bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by far. Still
don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Preston Rich) said:

Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
T2 deabetic, my daily medians...

pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
bedtime 99

Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

-Preston

Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For
myself, bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG
of 90 (5) to 180 (10) on oatmeal.

If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.

If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern emerges
based on that.

I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a couple
of factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was
initially high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will
have mentioned.

In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
(5.5).

But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even
had to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.

I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too, because
there's no fat in it. c

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20
w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by far.
Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Preston Rich) said:

Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after
breakfast (usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial
of 160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an
average low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after
dinner. A T2 deabetic, my daily medians...

pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
bedtime 99

Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

-Preston

Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For
myself, bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG
of 90 (5) to 180 (10) on oatmeal.

If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.

If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern
emerges based on that.

I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a
couple of factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was
initially high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will
have mentioned.

In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
(5.5).

But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even
had to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.

I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
because there's no fat in it. c

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20
w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by
far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

-Preston

Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up
and bite you.

When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you have
coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.

You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before lunch,
and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep testing
to find your optimum time.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Colleen said:

Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
because there's no fat in it. c

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other
meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

-Preston

Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
bite you.

When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.

You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep
testing to find your optimum time.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Colleen said:

Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
because there's no fat in it. c

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other
meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

-Preston

Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
bite you.

When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.

You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep
testing to find your optimum time.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am. I usually have a piece of
whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter and some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the
sugar. I usually stay about the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c

YMMV

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Colleen said:

Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.

It's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
> milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
>
> -Preston
>

Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
bite you.

When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect
things.

You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to
keep testing to find your optimum time.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

On 10 Feb 2004 06:41:57 -0800, [email hidden] (Preston Rich)

Quoted message said:

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Hi Preston

Go back a couple of years (May' 02) and I've been where you are. At that time I weighed 257 and had
an HbA1c of 8.2.

If what I say now sounds like scare tactics; it is.

My doc, who has a problem with bedside manner, put it very clearly: "If you don't sort out your
diabetes, you won't live long enough for your leukemia to be a problem". Now, I don't always agree
with my medics, but that certainly got my attention. And because of my other "problem" I decided to
try without meds as much as possible.

I realised that I had to have a major lifestyle change. You don't seem to have quite accepted that
yet. You have to leave your comfort zone.

From what you've posted, you need to drastically change your breakfast. You are right to learn about
things like glycemic load, but never forget
- your meter is telling you that you need to change, at least for that meal.

Before you cut out milk completely, try cutting your breakfast in half. Whatever you had this
morning, divide it all in two tomorrow. Then, if it still spikes, the first thing you cut is the
cereal and associated milk. Cutting it in half will give the added advantage of assisting your
weight loss. By the way, my milk consumption dropped from over a litre a day to less than a litre a
fortnight. During my weight loss period I used skim, now I use full-cream but rarely.

If you want to see exactly what I did for diet, email me. Remove starch to do so.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid milk
keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
done, a dinner out
x/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.

-Preston

"Colleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am. I usually have a piece of
whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter and some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the
sugar. I usually stay about the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c

YMMV

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a
latte w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin
related) over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load
reduced and along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight
loss strategy. The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may
result in my nee do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I
spike significantly w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk
there as well and see how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I
tried instant oat meal and spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.

It's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c
>
>"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...
>> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
>> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal
>> and milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
>>
>> -Preston
>>

Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
bite you.

When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did
you have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect
things.

You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to
keep testing to find your optimum time.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
experience can be an expensive teacher.

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid
milk keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
done, a dinner out
w/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.

-Preston

It's the fat in the prime rib and the butter on the potato. Fat slows down the absorption of
carbohydrate. c

Quoted message said:

"Colleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

usually have a piece of whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the sugar. I usually stay

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c

YMMV

"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular
Lactaid rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more
like a latte w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically
Metformin related) over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total
caloric load reduced and along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging
to my weight loss strategy. The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as
well which may result in my nee do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic
load. Since I spike significantly w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also
switch to full milk there as well and see how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi
and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and spiked 75 pts!

-Preston

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.

It's

Quoted message said:

> >faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c
> >
> >"Preston Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >"]news:[email hidden]...
> >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast
> >> 3 strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20

w/the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast

that

Quoted message said:

> >> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >>
> >> -Preston
> >>
>
> Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> carbs that come up and bite you.
>
> When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did
> you have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
>
> By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your

weight?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That can also affect things.
>
> You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to

drop

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ALL the carbs before lunch, and only have minimal then. I can

tolerate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep testing to find your optimum time.
>
>
>
> Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
> medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
> experience can be an expensive teacher.

On 11 Feb 2004 07:02:34 -0800, [email hidden] (Preston Rich)

Quoted message said:

Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid
milk keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
done, a dinner out
w/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.

-Preston

Preston, if you do the sums, subject to portion size, you probably had a lot less carbs in that
dinner than in the breakfast. Minimal, if any (maybe gravy or sauce) in the rib, minimal in the
salad (provided no pasta, rice or beans etc in it) so almost all of them were the potato. And it's
effect is slowed down by the butter.

Add to that the dawn effect and it's no wonder you're still spiking in the morning.

That dinner probably didn't hurt your BGs much at all. Can't say the same for it's effect on your
waistline.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.