Yogurt question

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:26:52 -0500, Jim Marnott <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing kill
all the bacteria?

It seems like a wasted 45-60 minutes while I heat it up to the higher temp and then wait for it to
cool down. Wouldn't I be just as safe and get just as good a yogurt by heating it to 110 in the
first place.

Jim

x-archive:no

My thinking exactly. I skipped heating the milk and my yogurt came out just fine.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Marnott said:

If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing
kill all the bacteria?

It seems like a wasted 45-60 minutes while I heat it up to the higher temp and then wait for it to
cool down. Wouldn't I be just as safe and get just as good a yogurt by heating it to 110 in the
first place.

Jim

I use powdered milk to make yogurt. Double the concentration...

I start with hottish water and stick it in an ice chest filled with hot water with a bit of my
culture. QED and 24 hours later, I have x amount of yogurt. I used to make it by the gallon...

Never had a problem, makes a fantastic fat-free yogurt.

K.

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Jim Marnott said:

If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing
kill all the bacteria?

No. You're invoking a few chemical changes to the milk by scalding it *and* you're warming it up for
the yogurt culture (which needs it warm in the first place). Besides, there are still a few bugs
that have ended up in your milk after pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
killing *them* before they have a chance to get a foothold in your nutrient-rich environment. 🙂

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Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

--
Jim Marnott
231/194/194 (Hit goal on 22 Nov '03 -- exactly 6 months later) Atkins since 22 May '03 Gym since
1 sept '03

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

Because the organisms which may compete with and diminish the yogurt culture are not pathogenic
to humans.

Scalding the milk when making yogurt is not a requirement, but it does result in a more
consistent product.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg said:

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

Because the organisms which may compete with and diminish the yogurt culture are not pathogenic
to humans.

Scalding the milk when making yogurt is not a requirement, but it does result in a more consistent
product.

OK. Thanks. That makes sense.

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

Presumably your milk is refrigerated right up to the minute before you drink it. That's not a great
environment for the buggies to grow. When making yogurt, you are purposely creating the right
temperature for the yogurt organisms to flourish.

--Lia

Jim Marnott said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after pasteurization, and
you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

Because the acidic environment in your stomach takes care of the other bugs, and there's not
enough of them to cause a problem for you. And, sitting in your refridgerator, the bugs aren't
exactly growing.

Would you drink a glass of milk that was left out for 12 hours at room temperature?

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

Because, your milk is kept cold which usually keeps residual bugs from multiplying for awhile. Why
do you think milk eventually goes bad?

When you incubate yogurt at a warm temp., you would encourage bad bugs to grow along with the ones
you want to grow, and end up with contaminated yogurt supposedly.

That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.

K.

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Katra said:

That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.

I add NFDM to 2% to get an increase in milk solids just a little bit of fat when I make my yogurt.
And, for some zing, a good 2 tbsp of honey. Then I scald, cool and put the batch in the oven for the
night to set up.

A few months ago, my wife asked me to make a batch of curried chicken for a lunch party she was
going to with some friends. 2 nights before, I decided to make a double batch of yogurt to have
plenty for the curry (I was making enough for 20 people). So I took my old, trusty enameled 6 quart
pot and doubled my yogurt recipe (1 batch: 4 C milk, 1 C NFDM, 2 tbsp honey), put it on the stove
and attempted to scald it.

It took *forever* for the milk to finally get to temperature. I let it cool, and poured it into
the container with the starter culture (from India). When it was all poured into the container is
when I noticed that the honey has burned at the bottom of the pot. I went ahead and put it into
the oven to set.

The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... 🙁

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email hidden]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Katra said:

That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.

I add NFDM to 2% to get an increase in milk solids just a little bit of fat when I make my yogurt.
And, for some zing, a good 2 tbsp of honey. Then I scald, cool and put the batch in the oven for
the night to set up.

A few months ago, my wife asked me to make a batch of curried chicken for a lunch party she was
going to with some friends. 2 nights before, I decided to make a double batch of yogurt to have
plenty for the curry (I was making enough for 20 people). So I took my old, trusty enameled 6
quart pot and doubled my yogurt recipe (1 batch: 4 C milk, 1 C NFDM, 2 tbsp honey), put it on the
stove and attempted to scald it.

It took *forever* for the milk to finally get to temperature. I let it cool, and poured it into
the container with the starter culture (from India). When it was all poured into the container is
when I noticed that the honey has burned at the bottom of the pot. I went ahead and put it into
the oven to set.

The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... 🙁

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email hidden]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp -
<http://mypage.org/mcpierce> "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

One more good reason NOT to scald... ;-) Or use fresh milk.

Really. It's not necessary if you use just straight powdered milk. Start with hot water and use
twice the amount of powdered milk per cup of water called for.

I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with hot
water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from the
previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.

24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.

Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up? If you melt the honey, it'd mix
more easily.

K.

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Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the lactobacilli
that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end up with
something you don't want.

Bob

Katra said:

Quoted message said:

The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... 🙁

One more good reason NOT to scald... ;-) Or use fresh milk.

The problem was that I didn't keep whisking the milk or didn't do it enough. The honey settled to
the bottom of the pot and created a vicious cycle of raising the local boiling point while absorbing
most of the heat from the stove top. That's why the pot was, in the end, unsavable. It had a layer
of tempered, carmelized honey that wouldn't completely come off...

Quoted message said:

Really. It's not necessary if you use just straight powdered milk. Start with hot water and use
twice the amount of powdered milk per cup of water called for.

I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with hot
water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from the
previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.

24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.

I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
source of milk proteins.

Quoted message said:

Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?

I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email hidden]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Katra said:

I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with
hot water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from
the previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.

24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.

I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
source of milk proteins.

Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started my
own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?

I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-) I never add flavorings to yogurt until after it is made,
but that's just me. <G>

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Katra said:

Quoted message said:

I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
source of milk proteins.

Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started my
own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.

That's what I've been using since I lost my other strain. And, yeah, I bought it 'cause Rachael Ray
was on the container... 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?

I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-)

It gives the yogurt an extra tanginess, the basic yogurt has a little more flavor to it.

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email hidden]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
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In article <[email hidden]>,

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Katra said:

Quoted message said:

I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
source of milk proteins.

Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started
my own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.

That's what I've been using since I lost my other strain. And, yeah, I bought it 'cause Rachael
Ray was on the container... 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?

I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-)

It gives the yogurt an extra tanginess, the basic yogurt has a little more flavor to it.

Makes sense. ;-) Probably feeds the culture a bit more nutrition.

Hmmmmmmmm wonder what lactose would do for Kombucha? Separate thought, not the same thing, at
all...... <G>

K.

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Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce said:

Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the
lactobacilli that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end
up with something you don't want.

Bob

Is this still necessary in these days of pasteurized milk?

-bwg

Barry Grau said:

Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jim Marnott said:

Darryl L. Pierce wrote:

>Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
>pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the
lactobacilli that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end
up with something you don't want.

Bob

Is this still necessary in these days of pasteurized milk?

Yes. Pasteurized milk has had *most* of the critters killed. But an unopened container of milk will
spoil after a while. It's because only *most* critters are dead. Making yogurt entails raising the
temperature of the milk to more than 100F, ideal bacteria-growth territory. The ones that make
yogurt are less hardy than many found in your container of milk. They'd be overwhelmed and you'd
have a container full of stuff with maybe some bright yellow stripes in it. Yum, huh...?

Pastorio