Scottish walks :)

In article <[email hidden]>, Kris
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

More Scottish Walks info needed! :> :P :>

I agree. More information is always good.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

Try looking in your school library. You might also find some books on your computer course that will
be more up to date than what your tutor is teaching you.

Cheers, Jiffy

Kris bashed at the keyboard and said:

More Scottish Walks info needed! :> :P :>

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Kris wrote on 30 Jan 2004 03:16:13 -0800....

Quoted message said:

More Scottish Walks info needed! :> :P :>

More competent lecturers needed at John Wheatley College, Glasgow :-(

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"Tim Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kris wrote on 30 Jan 2004 03:16:13 -0800....

Quoted message said:

More Scottish Walks info needed! :> :P :>

More competent lecturers needed at John Wheatley College, Glasgow :-(

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach. Pretty much true with FE
teaching staff in my experience.

--
Craven Birds

Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks. cravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comcravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comOpen ↗
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"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

Speak for yourself, but when I left teaching and went into industry I calculated I lost only 2 weeks
holiday each year.

As a lecturer I spent lot of holidays preparing and returning early for administration, exam results
analysis and the like.

And what did I get back? The ability to choose my holidays; to take that extra (needed) day off when
unwell without worrying that someone was working harder because I wasn't there; and above all a
total lack of clock-watching and much lower stress levels.

I know which job was harder.

Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians
for musicians braeburn.co.ukbraeburn.co.ukOpen ↗ Selkirk, Scotland

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

LOL, I always thought lecturers are underpaid or so they keep telling the British public! Not the
technicians;-)
--
Craven Birds

Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks. cravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comcravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comOpen ↗
freewebs.combirdingOpen ↗ mysite.freeserve.comcravenbirdsOpen ↗

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]-
spam.co.uk> writes

Quoted message said:

"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

Speak for yourself, but when I left teaching and went into industry I calculated I lost only 2
weeks holiday each year.

As a lecturer I spent lot of holidays preparing and returning early for administration, exam
results analysis and the like.

That's dedication! Not many as dedicated knowadays IMHO.

Quoted message said:

And what did I get back? The ability to choose my holidays; to take that extra (needed) day off
when unwell without worrying that someone was working harder because I wasn't there; and above all
a total lack of clock-watching and much lower stress levels.

That's your opinion, others might disagree.

--
Craven Birds

Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks. cravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comcravenbirds.mysite.freeserve.comOpen ↗
freewebs.combirdingOpen ↗ mysite.freeserve.comcravenbirdsOpen ↗

AndyP said:

"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

And those that can and want to share their excitement over learning teach. Those who can't teach, do
other stuff.

Katherine

In article <[email hidden]>, Craven Birds <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And what did I get back? The ability to choose my holidays; to take that extra (needed) day off
when unwell without worrying that someone was working harder because I wasn't there; and above
all a total lack of clock-watching and much lower stress levels.

That's your opinion, others might disagree.

It's not my opinion, more my experience.

Have you also made the transfer either way?

The main problem confronting all teachers is attention span generated stress. All day at all times
(almost) you are concentrating 100%. Any time your attention wanders you get murdered, and you are
constantly clock-watching for the right reasons: "Can I get through what I planned in 10 minutes?"

One accountancy teacher I met who had transferred into education was struck by this time-watching.
"It's the first job I've had where I had to [censored] on time!"

When I went into industry I was immediately struck with the lesser pace: I could take it easier
on a day when under the weather. I could go to the bank, I could leave early (providing I made up
the time).

However as I moved up the ladder in industry I found the same pressures returning. Meetings,
preparation, too much to do... Just that all teachers at all levels have the stress levels of middle-
management in industry.

I don't knock them: I was lucky enough to get out.

Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians
for musicians braeburn.co.ukbraeburn.co.ukOpen ↗ Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Katherine <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

AndyP said:

"Craven Birds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You know the old saying: Those that can do, those that can't teach.

And those that can but still want the long holidays take a pay cut and become school science
technicians.

And those that can and want to share their excitement over learning teach. Those who can't teach,
do other stuff.

When I was training, we had an extended saying:

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach teachers. Those who can't
teach teachers do educational research.

Close to the bone.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The main problem confronting all teachers is attention span generated stress. All day at all times
(almost) you are concentrating 100%. Any time your attention wanders you get murdered, and you are
constantly clock-watching for the right reasons: "Can I get through what I planned in 10 minutes?"

That's not true at our school. Teachers are actually teaching for only about 60% of the timetable.
Or 20 hours a week. When they're not teaching working life is leisurely for those who aren't Heads
of Department or Senior Management. Some are happy to admit it's an easy life and wouldn't go back
to a proper job. There's one who even when he is supposed to be teaching happily wanders in and out
of the classroom to make a cup of coffee or to have a chat.

Standing up infront of a class of 30 kids who have got little interest in learning and trying to get
them to behave is undoubtedly stressful for some and not something I'd want to do regularly but hard
work it isn't and you can get stressful situations in any job. As a teacher no one is going to sack
you for not being very good at your job or having huge amounts of time off which certainly wouldn't
have been the case in other places I've worked.

At the end of the day teachers are in very short supply. Last year in science at our school year 7
kids were being "taught" by non science graduate teachers who didn't know the most basic things
about science and had obviously made little attempt to learn them themselves. Having said all that
though, there are ofcourse some very good and dedicated teachers as well.

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The main problem confronting all teachers is attention span generated stress. All day at all
times (almost) you are concentrating 100%. Any time your attention wanders you get murdered, and
you are constantly clock-watching for the right reasons: "Can I get through what I planned in 10
minutes?"

That's not true at our school. Teachers are actually teaching for only about 60% of the timetable.

That's more like the load I had when I ran a department of 12. Are you sure of your facts on this?

Quoted message said:

Or 20 hours a week. When they're not teaching working life is leisurely for those who aren't Heads
of Department or Senior Management. Some are happy to admit it's an easy life and wouldn't go back
to a proper job. There's one who even when he is supposed to be teaching happily wanders in and
out of the classroom to make a cup of coffee or to have a chat.

No comment.

Quoted message said:

Standing up infront of a class of 30 kids who have got little interest in learning and trying to
get them to behave is undoubtedly stressful for some and not something I'd want to do regularly but
hard work it isn't and you can get stressful situations in any job. As a teacher no one is going to
sack you for not being very good at your job or having huge amounts of time off which certainly
wouldn't have been the case in other places I've worked.

I couldn't work like that. If you can't take pride in your work what can you take pride in? However
I do know that much school management - not to mention "the system" - discourages good teachers and
maybe this is the result.

I'm going back to the late 70s when I left classroom teaching.

Quoted message said:

At the end of the day teachers are in very short supply. Last year in science at our school year 7
kids were being "taught" by non science graduate teachers who didn't know the most basic things
about science and had obviously made little attempt to learn them themselves. Having said all that
though, there are ofcourse some very good and dedicated teachers as well.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not true at our school. Teachers are actually teaching for only about 60% of the
timetable.

Quoted message said:

That's more like the load I had when I ran a department of 12. Are you sure of your facts on this?

Yes, I've got a copy the science dept. timetable here in front of me. They each do between 39 and 41
lessons out of 66 over a 2 week period. From looking at it more closely I've only just realised that
the Head of Department teaches 41 lessons the same as everyone else along with all the meetings and
other stuff he has to do. And another one is also the exams officer so he's usually working hard at
that what with the modular exam structure and coursework they do throughout the year these days when
he isn't teaching but the others don't have any extra responsibilities. They obviously get paid more
for doing the extra workload but it's still doing a lot more work in the same amount of time.

"AndyP" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... Yes, I've got a copy the science dept.
timetable here in front of me.

They

Quoted message said:

each do between 39 and 41 lessons out of 66 over a 2 week period.

Does it show how many hours they spend at home doing marking and preparation. Factor that in.

KRO

"KRO" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Does it show how many hours they spend at home doing marking and preparation. Factor that in.

None of the ones I know at all well take any books home to mark. As far as preparation goes it's
not unheard of for certain members of the science department to wait to see what class turns up
before deciding what to teach them and phrases like "what can I do with my year 8 today" are
commonplace. It's also a very sad fact that in the 4 years I have been there only one has ever
looked at any of the chemical health and safety info we have got and the way new teachers are
prepared to do potentially dangerous demonstrations like the thermit reaction for the first time
infront of a load of kids without trying it out for themselves first despite warnings is a bit
scary. But I expect the teachers in the type of private sector school that I went to are a
different scenario from the inner city comprehensive where I currently work if only in that a far
greater depth of knowledge was required.

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"KRO" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Does it show how many hours they spend at home doing marking and preparation. Factor that in.

None of the ones I know at all well take any books home to mark.

Good grief. When I moved into industry I reckoned I lost 10 days holiday per year but got back all
my evenings.

Quoted message said:

As far as preparation goes it's not unheard of for certain members of the science department to
wait to see what class turns up before deciding what to teach them and phrases like "what can I do
with my year 8 today" are commonplace.

Then things have changed since I left.

Quoted message said:

It's also a very sad fact that in the 4 years I have been there only one has ever looked at any of
the chemical health and safety info we have got and the way new teachers are prepared to do
potentially dangerous demonstrations like the thermit reaction for the first time infront of a load
of kids without trying it out for themselves first despite warnings is a bit scary. But I expect
the teachers in the type of private sector school that I went to are a different scenario from the
inner city comprehensive where I currently work if only in that a far greater depth of knowledge
was required.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not true at our school. Teachers are actually teaching for only about 60% of the
timetable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's more like the load I had when I ran a department of 12. Are you sure of your facts
on this?

Quoted message said:

Yes, I've got a copy the science dept. timetable here in front of me.

They

Quoted message said:

each do between 39 and 41 lessons out of 66 over a 2 week period.

Umm...actually I did make a silly mistake there. I forgot about the new split lunchbreak thing
where they have either period 4 or period 5 as a lunchbreak but there are still lessons going on.
So taking off the 10 periods which are actually lunch breaks over the 2 weeks that should be on
average 40 lessons out of 56 which is 71%. Apologies to teachers everywhere, I'm obviously too dim
to be one.