Relaxed Geometry Road Bike

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

There are quite a few bikes out there with shorter distances between seat & bars (by the way,
calling it a "relaxed" geometry may confuse people, since that's normally associated with bikes with
relatively slack seat angles... which some feel gives a more powerful climbing position). TREK has
their "C" (comfort) series. But..

This "new" thing about more upright riding positions requiring a special bike is mostly bogus. In
most cases, a shop can take a standard road bike and fit a taller, shorter-forward-reach stem and
bars with less forward reach and voila, you've got a more upright position! Unfortunately, most of
the stock bikes come set up with long, low stems (to give a racing look) and often the salesperson
doesn't have a clue about how the customer wants to ride unless there's a "special" model that's
already set up that way and the customer says "That's what I want."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

Take a look at Rivendell Romulus, its at the upper end of your price range, maybe even a bit more,
but has alot of features that you may like:

rivbike.combikes romulusframes.htmlOpen ↗

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

Take a look at Rivendell Romulus, its at the upper end of your price

range,

Quoted message said:

maybe even a bit more, but has alot of features that you may like:

rivbike.combikes romulusframes.htmlOpen ↗

Also Herons. Similar design, lots of options, worth the money.

heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

Note that Mike J's comments are all true about how a good shop should be able to convert the stem on
about any road bike to get a more comfortable riding position. Rivendell has a good bit to say about
this, check out the "Articles" section of the site.

One of the advantages of the Riv's and Heron's is that you truly do get a more relaxed geometry and
that does affect the ride feel, which many find an improvement. Additionally, you get better
clearance for larger tires - another advantage that affects ride quality and note that the Riv's and
Heron's are specifically designed to have the h-bar at seat height so you're not playing games with
weird stem angles, reach, etc... as you would be with a standard road racer with threadless.

SB

Steve said:

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

Take a look at Rivendell Romulus, its at the upper end of your price range, maybe even a bit
more, but has alot of features that you may like:

rivbike.combikes romulusframes.htmlOpen ↗

Also Herons. Similar design, lots of options, worth the money.

heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

Note that Mike J's comments are all true about how a good shop should be able to convert the stem
on about any road bike to get a more comfortable riding position. Rivendell has a good bit to say
about this, check out the "Articles" section of the site.

One of the advantages of the Riv's and Heron's is that you truly do get a more relaxed geometry
and that does affect the ride feel, which many find an improvement. Additionally, you get better
clearance for larger tires - another advantage that affects ride quality and note that the Riv's
and Heron's are specifically designed to have the h-bar at seat height so you're not playing games
with weird stem angles, reach, etc... as you would be with a standard road racer with threadless.

Gunnar makes a "Sport" model in the same vein. And it's considerably cheaper than those other two,
though still more expensive than an off-the-rack model. You might also consider a Bianchi Volpe.

Interestingly, the Heron is practically identical to a Lemond. Much is made of Lemond's marginally
slacker seat tube, but the real story is the taller head tube -- an inch or more taller than
competing models. Look at the geometry charts... Anyway, I bet you could get a good fit with a
Lemond, and a tall stem if necessary.

Matt O.

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

Take a look at Rivendell Romulus, its at the upper end of your price range, maybe even a bit more,
but has alot of features that you may like:

rivbike.combikes romulusframes.htmlOpen ↗

If they still have the Romulus in stock in your size. The Romulus is only marginally differentiated
from their Rambouillet (paint, type of steel in the stays) from the Romulus, so Riv is selling out
their stock of the Romulus and sticking with just the Rambouillet, in a new color, for this year.
And the price has gone up significantly - $2100 - mostly due to the weak dollar. Romulus stocks are
real low; a dealer I know that used to have 5-6 in the show room and more in the back is down to
just a couple.

- rick

Matt O'Toole said:

Interestingly, the Heron is practically identical to a Lemond. Much is made of Lemond's marginally
slacker seat tube, but the real story is the taller head tube -- an inch or more taller than
competing models. Look at the geometry charts... Anyway, I bet you could get a good fit with a
Lemond, and a tall stem if necessary.

Matt O.

I was looking at getting my first road bike this year... tried out a coworkers Lemond.... and it's a
good think my wife doesn't let me carry the checkbook anymore.

[email hidden] (Rick Warner) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike
that will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile
rides. I'm looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes
out there worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

Take a look at Rivendell Romulus, its at the upper end of your price range, maybe even a bit
more, but has alot of features that you may like:

rivbike.combikes romulusframes.htmlOpen ↗

If they still have the Romulus in stock in your size. The Romulus is only marginally
differentiated from their Rambouillet (paint, type of steel in the stays) from the Romulus, so Riv
is selling out their stock of the Romulus and sticking with just the Rambouillet, in a new color,
for this year. And the price has gone up significantly - $2100 - mostly due to the weak dollar.
Romulus stocks are real low; a dealer I know that used to have 5-6 in the show room and more in
the back is down to just a couple.

- rick

What color are they changing the Rambouillet to this year?

"Bill Blum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was looking at getting my first road bike this year... tried out a coworkers Lemond.... and it's
a good think my wife doesn't let me carry the checkbook anymore.

Sounds like a bad thing if you ask me.

Matthew

Matt O'Toole said:

Interestingly, the Heron is practically identical to a Lemond. Much is made of Lemond's marginally
slacker seat tube, but the real story is the taller head tube -- an inch or more taller than
competing models. Look at the geometry charts... Anyway, I bet you could get a good fit with a
Lemond, and a tall stem if necessary.

Matt,

Which model Lemond is that? They all seem to have higher bottom brackets and shorter chainstays than
either the Heron Road or Touring. From the photos, it also doesn't look like their head tube is any
taller than any other road bike.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776 heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

Todd Kuzma said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Interestingly, the Heron is practically identical to a Lemond. Much is made of Lemond's
marginally slacker seat tube, but the real story is the taller head tube -- an inch or more
taller than competing models. Look at the geometry charts... Anyway, I bet you could get a good
fit with a Lemond, and a tall stem if necessary.

Matt,

Which model Lemond is that? They all seem to have higher bottom brackets and shorter chainstays
than either the Heron Road or Touring. From the photos, it also doesn't look like their head tube
is any taller than any other road bike.

I just looked at the specs for a 59cm Maillot Jeune. IMO, a half cm of chainstay doesn't make a
dime's worth of difference. OK, 7mm... But I'd still say both bikes are in the same class,
compared to a typical sub-41cm-chainstay bike. I have a hard time believing 5mm of BB drop makes
any difference either. Make 5mm with your thumb and forefinger, look at it, and ponder it! About
the head tube -- I had a 59cm Tourmalet in my garage, and it had a 190mm head tube. Look around
the web at some geometry charts, and you'll see this is at the tall end of the spectrum. These
days people have a hard time getting their bars up high enough, and 2cm can make all the
difference in the world.

Anyway, that's why I said the Heron and Lemond were "practically" identical -- different from a
Cannondale at one end of the spectrum, or a Trek 520 at the other. But in practice, they'd fit and
ride about the same as each other.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I just looked at the specs for a 59cm Maillot Jeune. IMO, a half cm of chainstay doesn't make a
dime's worth of difference. OK, 7mm... But I'd

still

Quoted message said:

say both bikes are in the same class, compared to a typical

sub-41cm-chainstay

Quoted message said:

bike. I have a hard time believing 5mm of BB drop makes any difference

either.

Quoted message said:

Make 5mm with your thumb and forefinger, look at it, and ponder it! About

the

Quoted message said:

head tube -- I had a 59cm Tourmalet in my garage, and it had a 190mm head

tube.

Quoted message said:

Look around the web at some geometry charts, and you'll see this is at the

tall

Quoted message said:

end of the spectrum. These days people have a hard time getting their

bars up

Quoted message said:

high enough, and 2cm can make all the difference in the world.

Anyway, that's why I said the Heron and Lemond were "practically"

identical --

Quoted message said:

different from a Cannondale at one end of the spectrum, or a Trek 520 at

the

Quoted message said:

other. But in practice, they'd fit and ride about the same as each other.

Matt,

I ride a Heron Road and Lemond Arrivee. They do ride similarly, in that they are both stable bikes,
handle well, etc... neither is squirrelly on a fast downhill, so in one sense you're right. But one
thing I've discovered is that very minor differences in frame angles do make a difference. Hell, I
had to get a different seat post when I moved to Brooks saddles due to shorter seat rails. That's
essentially the same as a 1/2 degree of seat tube angle and it made a HUGE difference. Grant
Peterson commented once about building his own Riv. with a seat tube 1/2 degree slacker for the same
reason (Brooks saddle).

The Lemond is not a Heron and there are differences that a geometry chart doesn't show. Note also
that you're comparing the larger frame sizes, where a 55-56 size would be the most common sold and
the differences are more pronounced in these sizes. Further a 7mm chainstay can make a world of
difference in chain angle. My Heron has a triple and I never get chainrub of any kind when using the
middle ring and 2nd smallest cog, something I cannot do with a triple on the Lemond and it's all do
to chainstay length. Finally, the longer chainstay's allow greater tire clearance. I can just fit a
26mm tire on the Lemond, where a 32 works on the Heron. The Riv's have even better tire clearance,
longer chainstays, wheelbase, etc.. thus have even better versatility, which is I inferred the
original post was looking for.

Steve B.

Steve said:

The Lemond is not a Heron and there are differences that a geometry chart doesn't show. Note also
that you're comparing the larger frame sizes, where a 55-56 size would be the most common sold and
the differences are more pronounced in these sizes. Further a 7mm chainstay can make a world of
difference in chain angle. My Heron has a triple and I never get chainrub of any kind when using
the middle ring and 2nd smallest cog, something I cannot do with a triple on the Lemond and it's
all do to chainstay length. Finally, the longer chainstay's allow greater tire clearance. I can
just fit a 26mm tire on the Lemond, where a 32 works on the Heron. The Riv's have even better tire
clearance, longer chainstays, wheelbase, etc.. thus have even better versatility, which is I
inferred the original post was looking for.

This is all true, and you're preaching to the choir about the clearance issues! However, I was
focusing solely on fit and handling. And usually, a half degree of seat tube angle is well within
the normal range of adjustment of saddles and seatposts. Of course, certain combinations will always
be outliers.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

About the head tube -- I had a 59cm Tourmalet in my garage, and it had a 190mm head tube. Look
around the web at some geometry charts, and you'll see this is at the tall end of the spectrum.
These days people have a hard time getting their bars up high enough, and 2cm can make all the
difference in the world.

One point about the head tube length - this spec doesn't tell you a lot unless you also know the
fork length. Forks do vary quite a bit in length, and the Heron Road fork is quite long compared to
other forks using short-reach brakes.

Lemond doesn't list the length of their forks so I can't say for sure how tall their head tube is.
However, judging from photos, I'd say that the fork is relatively short.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776 heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

If you just want to be a bit more upright, then most typical road bikes should fit with just a
shorter stem flipped so they point up rather then horizontal. You also might look into one size
smaller to get a slightly shorter top tube. This agrees with Mike J's comments.

Bruce

"Ron Linz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a road bike that has a relaxed geometry. Im in my 50's and want a road bike that
will allow me to be more upright when in the drops. I don't race and do 25 - 50 mile rides. I'm
looking at the Jamis Quest and Specialized Sequoia Elite. Are there any other bikes out there
worth looking at? I want to stay in the $1000 - $1500 price range.

in article [email hidden], Bruce Frech at
[email hidden] wrote on 1/27/04 5:09 PM:

Quoted message said:

If you just want to be a bit more upright, then most typical road bikes should fit with just a
shorter stem flipped so they point up rather then horizontal. You also might look into one size
smaller to get a slightly shorter top tube. This agrees with Mike J's comments.

It's true that adjusting a quill stem or flipping a threadless stem can raise the bars and
effectively reduce reach. However, I don't agree with the suggestion of going to a smaller size
frame. Using a smaller size means that you will have to pull the post out further to get the correct
seat height. This will place the saddle higher relative to the bars.

Instead, I'd go with a taller frame and shorter stem. A taller frame will mean less seatpost
showing. This results in a higher handlebar relative to the saddle.

On frames like the Heron, Specialized Sequoia, and the Rivendell frames, the head tube is higher
than on most frames. This does two different things. First, obviously, it raises the handlebars
relative to the saddle. Second, and not as obvious, the higher handlebar effectively reduces the
reach to the bars. So, a Heron with a 57 cm top tube will fit like a conventional frame with a 56
cm top tube.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Lemond doesn't list the length of their forks so I can't say for sure how tall their head tube is.
However, judging from photos, I'd say that the fork is relatively short.

Yet another good point and I'll expand based on experience.

My Lemond Ti came with an integrated headset. It had the steerer tube intact and I essentially left
it uncut, using a ton of black spacers (60mm ?) to get the H-bar where I wanted - seat height. Stem,
bar and spacers are all black so it doesn't look hideous (to me), though I'd bet the bike fashion
police would have something to say.

The point is that with Herons and Rivs, the head tubes AND fork steerers are deliberately long,
which often allows a regular (short quill) 1" stem to be used to get the h-bar almost level with the
set and that's half the battle in terms of comfort for a lot of (getting) older riders. Using a
Nitto Technomic allows a tremendous amount of adjustment in terms of bar height, though swapping
stems to play around certainly is nowhere as simple as with the 1-1/8 stems with dual bolt open
faces. Wish there was a happy middle ground.

The typical Lemond's may or may not have the entire steerer tube intact when you're shopping around.
Hopefully the dealers are getting smart and leaving them un-cut, though they don't look as "cool"
when built up this way. Thus, as with probably 80% of the standard road bikes, the steerer is cut
and you're now stuck with a very extreme angled threadless stem. My frame was a factory replacement
thus the long steerer, but either way I had to play games with spacers and stems to get a comparable
position on the Lemond, where it seemed so much simpler with the Heron with it's upward sloping top
tube and long head tube. Certainly a major design difference and is one of the reasons these bikes
are really much different then your stock road racer.

SB

Todd Kuzma <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Bruce Frech at [email hidden] wrote on
1/27/04 5:09 PM:

Quoted message said:

If you just want to be a bit more upright, then most typical road bikes should fit with just a
shorter stem flipped so they point up rather then horizontal. You also might look into one size
smaller to get a slightly shorter top tube. This agrees with Mike J's comments.

It's true that adjusting a quill stem or flipping a threadless stem can raise the bars and
effectively reduce reach. However, I don't agree with the suggestion of going to a smaller size
frame. Using a smaller size means that you will have to pull the post out further to get the
correct seat height. This will place the saddle higher relative to the bars.

Instead, I'd go with a taller frame and shorter stem. A taller frame will mean less seatpost
showing. This results in a higher handlebar relative to the saddle.

On frames like the Heron, Specialized Sequoia, and the Rivendell frames, the head tube is higher
than on most frames. This does two different things. First, obviously, it raises the handlebars
relative to the saddle. Second, and not as obvious, the higher handlebar effectively reduces the
reach to the bars. So, a Heron with a 57 cm top tube will fit like a conventional frame with a 56
cm top tube.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗

Todd, how does the price of the Heron compare to the Specialized Sequoia, Jamis Quest, Bianchi
Veloce? I didn't see any prices on the web site. Also, what are the different models? Does the Heron
road bike have a relaxed gemetry? How is the Heron Touring bike different?

I am 5'11" and have an inseam of 85cm. What size frame do you think I would need in a Heron?

Ron Linz said:

Todd, how does the price of the Heron compare to the Specialized Sequoia, Jamis Quest, Bianchi
Veloce? I didn't see any prices on the web site. Also, what are the different models? Does the
Heron road bike have a relaxed gemetry? How is the Heron Touring bike different?

Our frames start at $995. Check the "Frames" page of our site for more info on pricing and the
difference between the frames. There is also some good info on the "FAQ" page. The Touring frame
provides a bit more stable (slower) steering than the Road so it is easier to ride while carrying a
touring load. The chainstays are longer, and there is clearance for fatter tires and fenders.

Quoted message said:

I am 5'11" and have an inseam of 85cm. What size frame do you think I would need in a Heron?

Just based on height and inseam, I'd look first at the 58 cm Road. Check our "Sizing" page for a bit
more info. Of course, we recommend getting a proper fitting done at one of our dealers.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776 heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗