Article] Monkey Hear, But Monkey Not Comprehend

"Robert Karl Stonjek" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

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Monkey Hear, But Monkey Not Comprehend Thu Jan 15, 5:08 PM ET Add Health - HealthDay to My

Yahoo!

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By Randy Dotinga HealthDay Reporter

THURSDAY, Jan. 15 (HealthDayNews) -- Researchers say

they've come closer

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than ever to figuring out why humans can string sentences

together and our

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hairy cousins can't.

One of the major barriers to a simian Shakespeare appears

to be the

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inability of primates to comprehend anything other than

the simplest rules

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of grammar, according to a new study.

Monkeys who listened to alternating male and female voices

couldn't pick up

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on complex patterns designed to mimic those of human

speech, researchers

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found. This lack of understanding could be a "fundamental

bottleneck on

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animal thought," says study co-author Marc D. Hauser, a

professor of

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psychology at Harvard University.

While monkey grammar skills may seem like a pretty arcane

topic harkening

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back to diagrammed sentences on chalkboards, it's actually

at the center of

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a major mystery: How did human speech evolve? How does the

way humans talk

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to each other differ from the way animals communicate?

"Grammar may be the defining feature of human language,

what makes our

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language different from other forms of animal

communication," says Keith R.

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Kluender, a professor of psychology who studies speech

perception at the

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University of Wisconsin. "It's a pretty big deal."

It's no secret that animals can communicate with each

other in simple

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ways -- think of those midnight neighborhood symphonies of

howling dogs or

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cats in heat. And humans have managed to teach sign

language to apes and

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dolphins.

But Hauser says the top number of words they have learned

is in the

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300-to-400 range, which doesn't even compare to the

60,000-word vocabulary

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of a typical high school graduate.

Apes "have learned signs that refer to things in their

world, like food and

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actions," Hauser says. "They could label things and could

sign 'apple' or

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'pond.' But what they couldn't say is, 'My apple is in the

pond' or 'on the

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chair.' "

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From Science via Yahoo News

tinyurl.com3eewpOpen ↗

Posted by Robert Karl Stonjek.

Hmm...also very interesting. But doesn't the fact that the differences in vocal apparatuses in, say,
man vs. monkey, limits monkey speech capability, play a significant part in capacity for both word
memory and grammer rules? IOW, if you're not able to use it, you lose it?

Seems to me, that it the limited vocal capacity in animals is the main reason their brains never
evolved to the level of organizational complexity which would make them efficiently utilize a large
number of words and grammer rules. ....tonyC

Anthony Cerrato <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bumqcv$1n85$1
@darwin.ediacara.org:

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"Robert Karl Stonjek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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But Hauser says the top number of words they have learned

is in the

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300-to-400 range, which doesn't even compare to the

60,000-word vocabulary

Quoted message said:

of a typical high school graduate.

Apes "have learned signs that refer to things in their

world, like food and

Quoted message said:

actions," Hauser says. "They could label things and could

sign 'apple' or

Quoted message said:

'pond.' But what they couldn't say is, 'My apple is in the

pond' or 'on the

Quoted message said:

chair.' "

Quoted message said:

Hmm...also very interesting. But doesn't the fact that the differences in vocal apparatuses in,
say, man vs. monkey, limits monkey speech capability, play a significant part in capacity for both
word memory and grammer rules? IOW, if you're not able to use it, you lose it?

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Seems to me, that it the limited vocal capacity in animals is the main reason their brains never
evolved to the level of organizational complexity which would make them efficiently utilize a
large number of words and grammer rules.

Seals have good vocal capacity but don't utilize grammar. Parrots have excellent vocal capacity but
don't utilize grammar. Both of those animals have need of conscious breath control, and the vocal
capacity is probably a side effect. The vocal capacity in humans is most likely a result of grammar,
not a cause of it.

Yours,

Bill Morse

"William Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Anthony Cerrato <[email hidden]> wrote in

news:bumqcv$1n85$1

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@darwin.ediacara.org:

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"Robert Karl Stonjek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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But Hauser says the top number of words they have

learned

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is in the

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300-to-400 range, which doesn't even compare to the

60,000-word vocabulary

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of a typical high school graduate.

Apes "have learned signs that refer to things in their

world, like food and

Quoted message said:

actions," Hauser says. "They could label things and

could

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sign 'apple' or

Quoted message said:

'pond.' But what they couldn't say is, 'My apple is in

the

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pond' or 'on the

Quoted message said:

chair.' "

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Hmm...also very interesting. But doesn't the fact that

the

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differences in vocal apparatuses in, say, man vs.

monkey,

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limits monkey speech capability, play a significant part

in

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capacity for both word memory and grammer rules? IOW, if you're not able to use it, you lose it?

Quoted message said:

Seems to me, that it the limited vocal capacity in

animals

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is the main reason their brains never evolved to the

level

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of organizational complexity which would make them

efficiently

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utilize a large number of words and grammer rules.

Seals have good vocal capacity but don't utilize grammar.

Parrots have

Quoted message said:

excellent vocal capacity but don't utilize grammar. Both

of those animals

Quoted message said:

have need of conscious breath control, and the vocal

capacity is probably

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a side effect. The vocal capacity in humans is most likely

a result of

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grammar, not a cause of it.

Yes, I agree that grammer is the main point here--I just added word memory to also address Hauser's
comment, "...the top number of words (animals) have learned is in the 300-to-400 range, which
doesn't even compare to the 60,000-word vocabulary of a typical high school graduate."

As for vocal capacity, I may be wrong, but I have always understood that, due to the unique
morphology and functioning of the voice box and associated organs, the ability for speech in humans
is fundamentally different from that of all animals (I'm not sure if this is what you mean by
"conscious breath control"...are you saying breathing in parrots etc is not autonomic as in humans?
Although, humans also have some conscious control over breathing also, no?) I just did a quick
google on "unique human speech" and found one interesting ref. re: uniqueness;
fusion.mssm.educontent.cfmOpen ↗ --and there seem to be others re: function,
particularly with reapect to vowel capability, and many of course wrt the special evolution of human
brain organization, etc., for speech. I would guess the latter is the really important factor in our
differences with animals, but this is perhaps too big a subject for easy discussion here, unless
there are some workers in this field here to help out. Regards, ....tonyC

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Yours,

Bill Morse