General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Problems with Actos

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 January 2004
Last activity
19 January 2004
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Kelly Tompkins
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  1. I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in December 2002 with a bg of 814. After
    getting out of the hospital I was initially placed on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10 mg.
    Several months later my daily medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide 20 mg.,
    Insulin R & NPH.

    Approximately 9 months ago my diabetic nurse added Actos to my diabetic medications (15 mg. in
    the morning & 15 mg. in the evening), since then I have always had problems approximately 2-3
    hours after taking this medication - headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach upset & feeling
    really tired. I always tested thinking I was having a hypo but my readings were anywhere from 110
    to 180 or above.

    Around 5 weeks ago the diabetic nurse increased my insulin and told me to start taking a single dose
    of Actos (30 mg.) in the morning. I would take the Actos around 5:00 am when I used the bathroom and
    then go back to bed until 7:30-8:00 am, upon re-awaking for the day I would take the rest of my
    medications. About 4 weeks ago I noticed when I woke up around 7:30-8:00 am for the day, and prior
    to taking the rest of my medications, I was starting to wake-up with more intense headaches, mental
    confusion, feeling really tired, dizziness, and my balance now seemed to be affected (I would have
    to hold on to things to keep from falling when walking). These problems would slowly start going
    away as the day progressed. Starting about a week ago, upon awakening for the day at 7:30-8:00 am,
    these problems increased ... I now felt like someone had punched me in the head several times while
    I was asleep, I had a problem focusing my vision, mental confusion & dizziness had increased, my
    balance was now worse, and I was so tired that I would go back to bed and sleep until 2:00-3:00 pm.
    Again, these problems would start going away as the day progressed but now it seemed to take longer
    until I felt ok.

    Everything came to a head yesterday ... I woke up at 5:15 am (I felt really good), went to the
    bathroom, took the Actos, and went back to bed. Around
    7:15 am I woke up and felt worse than I ever have, my head felt like it was going to explode, the
    problems with vision, mental confusion, dizziness, and balance had greatly increased. After barely
    making it to and using the bathroom I tested my bg - it was 142. Since I felt so out of it and
    tired I decided to go back to bed. After making it to my bedroom the last thing I remember is
    everything going black and a sensation of falling. After waking up on the bedroom floor around
    2:20 pm I called my wife at her work and told her what had happened. My wife called the diabetic
    nurse who told her that it could not possibly be the Actos causing these problems, it must be
    something else, and I should see my doctor as soon as possible. Well, my regular doctor was not
    available so I ended up seeing the doctor taking his place at 5:45 pm. The doctor I saw also told
    me that Actos could not and would not cause the problems I had been having ... and it would never
    cause me to pass out. I asked the doctor why I would always feel good and alert when I woke every
    morning at 5:00 am to use the bathroom, take the Actos and go back to bed, only to always have
    problems when I woke 2-3 hours later and he said he did not know but the Actos would not cause
    these problems. After arguing with the doctor about Actos for a few more minutes I told him I
    wanted to be taken off it and he said ok, sent me to the lab for a few general blood tests and I
    went home from there.

    Well, here it is around 11:00 am the next morning, I did not take any Actos today and I woke up
    feeling great. No headaches, no problems with vision, balance, dizziness, mental confusion, etc.
    Nothing changed last night or today except I did not take the Actos this morning.

    Has anyone else taking Actos had any problems like this with it?

    -Kelly

  2. Hi Kelly,

    I've never been on Actos, but what you describe is the same thing as my neighbor who is a Type 1.
    Her doctor put her on it and she was on it for about a year and had all kinds of problems, she fell
    twice, blacked out, was dizzy at times. I kept telling her I had read where Actos and insulin didn't
    go together. She went to another doctor who wanted to see her results with and without the Actos and
    when he saw the numbers, took her off the Actos and she is fine now.

    Nora

  3. Kelly Tompkins wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in December 2002 with a bg of 814. After
    getting out of the hospital I was initially placed on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10 mg. Several
    months later my daily medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide 20 mg., Insulin


    R

    Quoted message said:

    & NPH.

    Approximately 9 months ago my diabetic nurse added Actos to my diabetic medications (15 mg. in the
    morning & 15 mg. in the evening), since then I have always had problems approximately 2-3 hours
    after taking this medication - headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach upset & feeling really
    tired. I always tested thinking I was having a hypo but my readings were anywhere from 110 to 180
    or above.

    Around 5 weeks ago the diabetic nurse increased my insulin and told me to start taking a single
    dose of Actos (30 mg.) in the morning. I would take the Actos around 5:00 am when I used the
    bathroom and then go back to bed until 7:30-8:00 am, upon re-awaking for the day I would take the
    rest of my medications. About 4 weeks ago I noticed when I woke up around 7:30-8:00 am for the day,
    and prior to taking the rest of my medications, I was starting to wake-up with more intense
    headaches, mental confusion, feeling really tired, dizziness, and my balance now seemed to be
    affected (I would have to hold on to things to keep from falling when walking). These problems
    would slowly start going away as the day progressed. Starting about a week ago, upon awakening for
    the day at 7:30-8:00 am, these problems increased ... I now felt like someone had punched me in the
    head several times while I was asleep, I had a problem focusing my vision, mental confusion &
    dizziness


    had

    Quoted message said:

    increased, my balance was now worse, and I was so tired that I would go


    back

    Quoted message said:

    to bed and sleep until 2:00-3:00 pm. Again, these problems would start


    going

    Quoted message said:

    away as the day progressed but now it seemed to take longer until I felt


    ok.

    Quoted message said:


    Everything came to a head yesterday ... I woke up at 5:15 am (I felt really good), went to the
    bathroom, took the Actos, and went back to bed. Around
    7:15 am I woke up and felt worse than I ever have, my head felt like it was going to explode, the
    problems with vision, mental confusion, dizziness,


    and

    Quoted message said:

    balance had greatly increased. After barely making it to and using the bathroom I tested my bg - it
    was 142. Since I felt so out of it and tired I decided to go back to bed. After making it to my
    bedroom the last thing I remember is everything going black and a sensation of falling. After
    waking up on the bedroom floor around 2:20 pm I called my wife at her work and


    told

    Quoted message said:

    her what had happened. My wife called the diabetic nurse who told her that it could not possibly
    be the Actos causing these problems, it must be something else, and I should see my doctor as soon
    as possible. Well, my regular doctor was not available so I ended up seeing the doctor taking his
    place at 5:45 pm. The doctor I saw also told me that Actos could not and would not cause the
    problems I had been having ... and it would never cause me to pass out. I asked the doctor why I
    would always feel good and alert when I woke every morning at 5:00 am to use the bathroom, take
    the Actos


    and

    Quoted message said:

    go back to bed, only to always have problems when I woke 2-3 hours later


    and

    Quoted message said:

    he said he did not know but the Actos would not cause these problems. After arguing with the doctor
    about Actos for a few more minutes I told him I wanted to be taken off it and he said ok, sent me
    to the lab for a few general blood tests and I went home from there.

    Well, here it is around 11:00 am the next morning, I did not take any Actos today and I woke up
    feeling great. No headaches, no problems with vision, balance, dizziness, mental confusion, etc.
    Nothing changed last night or today except I did not take the Actos this morning.

    Has anyone else taking Actos had any problems like this with it?

    -Kelly

    I never had any problems with the TZD's (Actos is a TZD). However, you ought to see what the
    powerful drug "coffee" does to me. (Life-threatening effects folks, not joking )

    I don't see any reason why you can't be intolerant to Actos. If millions of folks can drink
    coffee and enjoy the effects, but it causes life-threatening symptoms in me; then it's reasonable
    that millions of folks can take Actos and enjoy its effects, but it causes life-threatening
    symptoms in you.

    Some remarks on your therapy:

    1. Metformin is an anti-Insulin Resistance diabetic med. Thus, it helps control blood sugars, and
    also acts as an anti-Diabetic Heart Attack med for many folks. You really want to keep taking
    your metformin if it doesn't give you any problems.

    2. Your multiple daily insulin injection regime, when combined with Actos, ought to give you:

    a. Superior bG control
    b. A chance to keep some of your self-generated insulin supply healthy for more years.
    This is a very desirable outcome.

    (I don't have any self-generated insulin anymore. . .take my word for it, you don't want to have to
    control "my way"😉

    3. The Glipizide forces your beta cells to generate more insulin. There is evidence that its action
    can cause your self-generated insulin supply to decrease and disappear. Dr Bernstein, a noted
    but controversial Diabetes Author, recommends increasing the insulin doses in preference to
    taking Glipizide or the other beta cell stimulators.

    Regards
    Old Al

  4. oldal4865 wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    Some remarks on your therapy:

    . . .(snip). . ..

    2. Your multiple daily insulin injection regime, when combined with Actos, ought to give you:

    a. Superior bG control
    b. A chance to keep some of your self-generated insulin supply healthy for more years.
    This is a very desirable outcome.

    Regards
    Old Al

    Arrrgh!

    . . . . .Your multiple daily insulin injection regime, when combined with METFORMIN ought to give
    you. . . .

    Regards
    Old Al

  5. Kelly,

    I'm type 1, and do not use Actos, but a quick search on actos and side effects brought me the
    following information. I would suggest finding a new doctor who doesn't think he knows everything
    and that his patient is an idiot.

    Randy

    If you experience any of the following Actos symptoms, call your doctor immediately:

    difficulty breathing rapid weight gain swelling of the ankles or feet that happens very quickly
    seizures loss of consciousness upset stomach vomiting stomach pain excessive tiredness dark urine
    yellowing of the skin or whites of the eyes

    from actos-side-effects.netactos-side-effects.net

    Kelly Tompkins said:

    I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in December 2002 with a bg of 814. After
    getting out of the hospital I was initially placed on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10 mg.
    Several months later my daily medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide 20 mg.,
    Insulin R & NPH.

    Quoted message said:

    Approximately 9 months ago my diabetic nurse added Actos to my diabetic medications (15 mg. in the
    morning & 15 mg. in the evening), since then I have always had problems approximately 2-3 hours
    after taking this medication - headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach upset & feeling really
    tired. I always tested thinking I was having a hypo but my readings were anywhere from 110 to 180
    or above.

    Quoted message said:

    Around 5 weeks ago the diabetic nurse increased my insulin and told me to start taking a single
    dose of Actos (30 mg.) in the morning. I would take the Actos around 5:00 am when I used the
    bathroom and then go back to bed until 7:30-8:00 am, upon re-awaking for the day I would take the
    rest of my medications. About 4 weeks ago I noticed when I woke up around 7:30-8:00 am for the
    day, and prior to taking the rest of my medications, I was starting to wake-up with more intense
    headaches, mental confusion, feeling really tired, dizziness, and my balance now seemed to be
    affected (I would have to hold on to things to keep from falling when walking). These problems
    would slowly start going away as the day progressed. Starting about a week ago, upon awakening for
    the day at 7:30-8:00 am, these problems increased ... I now felt like someone had punched me in
    the head several times while I was asleep, I had a problem focusing my vision, mental confusion &
    dizziness had increased, my balance was now worse, and I was so tired that I would go back to bed
    and sleep until 2:00-3:00 pm. Again, these problems would start going away as the day progressed
    but now it seemed to take longer until I felt ok.

    Quoted message said:

    Everything came to a head yesterday ... I woke up at 5:15 am (I felt really good), went to the
    bathroom, took the Actos, and went back to bed. Around
    7:15 am I woke up and felt worse than I ever have, my head felt like it was going to explode, the
    problems with vision, mental confusion, dizziness, and balance had greatly increased. After
    barely making it to and using the bathroom I tested my bg - it was 142. Since I felt so out of
    it and tired I decided to go back to bed. After making it to my bedroom the last thing I
    remember is everything going black and a sensation of falling. After waking up on the bedroom
    floor around 2:20 pm I called my wife at her work and told her what had happened. My wife called
    the diabetic nurse who told her that it could not possibly be the Actos causing these problems,
    it must be something else, and I should see my doctor as soon as possible. Well, my regular
    doctor was not available so I ended up seeing the doctor taking his place at 5:45 pm. The doctor
    I saw also told me that Actos could not and would not cause the problems I had been having ...
    and it would never cause me to pass out. I asked the doctor why I would always feel good and
    alert when I woke every morning at 5:00 am to use the bathroom, take the Actos and go back to
    bed, only to always have problems when I woke 2-3 hours later and he said he did not know but
    the Actos would not cause these problems. After arguing with the doctor about Actos for a few
    more minutes I told him I wanted to be taken off it and he said ok, sent me to the lab for a few
    general blood tests and I went home from there.

    Quoted message said:

    Well, here it is around 11:00 am the next morning, I did not take any Actos today and I woke up
    feeling great. No headaches, no problems with vision, balance, dizziness, mental confusion, etc.
    Nothing changed last night or today except I did not take the Actos this morning.

    Quoted message said:

    Has anyone else taking Actos had any problems like this with it?

    Quoted message said:

    -Kelly

  6. Randy Sigman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Kelly,

    I'm type 1, and do not use Actos, but a quick search on actos and side effects brought me the
    following information. I would suggest finding a new doctor who doesn't think he knows everything
    and that his patient is an idiot.

    Randy

    If you experience any of the following Actos symptoms, call your doctor immediately:

    difficulty breathing rapid weight gain swelling of the ankles or feet that happens very quickly
    seizures loss of consciousness upset stomach vomiting stomach pain excessive tiredness dark urine
    yellowing of the skin or whites of the eyes

    from actos-side-effects.netactos-side-effects.net

    Kelly Tompkins said:

    I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in December 2002 with a bg of 814.
    After getting out of the hospital I was initially placed on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10
    mg. Several months later my daily medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide 20
    mg., Insulin R & NPH.



    [much good info deleted for space...]

    Randy, thanks for the Actos link, Kelly, if you have not already done so call your doctor as soon as
    possible. Yesterday. Last week.

    Actos and its evil twin Avandia have been proven to cause congestive heart failure, edema and the
    host of other nasties which Randy listed. These drugs can kill you. Please check out the joint
    ADA/AHA press release on this which was issued about a month ago. As soon as I read it I called my
    diabetes nurse, who immediately took me off Avandia.

    americanheart.orgpresenter.jhtml

    [email hidden] howeird.comhoweird.com

  7. Kelly,

    I learned the hard way--by ending up with a permanent irreversible unpleasant drug-caused problem--
    that many doctors are dangerously ignorant about the side effects of the drugs they prescribe.

    The drug companies do what they can to hide the real side effects that thier drugs cause by burying
    them in a list of "other side effects" which usually include everything you can think of from mental
    confusion, to headache, to

    one doctor explained to me, "all drugs list all these effects. It doesn't mean anything."

    Unfortunately,. buried in the list of "everything" are some very serious side effects which can ruin
    people's lives. But the drug companies can get away with it as long as, on INITIAL short term
    testing the side effect affects less than 3% of the people who take the drug. With a drug that is
    being prescribed to millions, that 2% can add up.

    Over the years I've been prescribed drugs that caused permanent ringing in the ears, week long
    accellearted heart rate (past 110 bpm all the time),

    each case (except, alas, the ringing in the ears) discontinuing the medicine caused the symptom to
    go away. In each case the side effect was listed in the prescribing information, but almost always
    in the "less than 3%" garbage pail.

    Actos is very new and its dangerous side effects are only gradually coming to light. Until they kill
    people in significant numbers, they'll only be footnoted in obscure medical studies. You might ask
    your doctor to check your retinas and liver enzymes just to make sure that the drug did not do the
    damage that it rarely does do to "less than 1%" of people who take it.

    -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to
    respond to my email address!

    Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with
    diabetes and more at geocities.comjenny the bean

    Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit alt-support-alt-support-
    diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

    "Kelly Tompkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic in December 2002 with a bg of 814.
    After getting out of the hospital I was initially placed on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10
    mg. Several months later my daily medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide 20
    mg., Insulin


    R

    Quoted message said:

    & NPH.

    Approximately 9 months ago my diabetic nurse added Actos to my diabetic medications (15 mg. in the
    morning & 15 mg. in the evening), since then I have always had problems approximately 2-3 hours
    after taking this medication - headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach upset & feeling really
    tired. I always tested thinking I was having a hypo but my readings were anywhere from 110 to 180
    or above.

    Around 5 weeks ago the diabetic nurse increased my insulin and told me to start taking a single
    dose of Actos (30 mg.) in the morning. I would take the Actos around 5:00 am when I used the
    bathroom and then go back to bed until 7:30-8:00 am, upon re-awaking for the day I would take
    the rest of


    my

    Quoted message said:

    medications. About 4 weeks ago I noticed when I woke up around 7:30-8:00


    am

    Quoted message said:

    for the day, and prior to taking the rest of my medications, I was


    starting

    Quoted message said:

    to wake-up with more intense headaches, mental confusion, feeling really tired, dizziness, and my
    balance now seemed to be affected (I would have


    to

    Quoted message said:

    hold on to things to keep from falling when walking). These problems would slowly start going away
    as the day progressed. Starting about a week ago, upon awakening for the day at 7:30-8:00 am,
    these problems increased ... I now felt like someone had punched me in the head several times
    while I was asleep, I had a problem focusing my vision, mental confusion & dizziness


    had

    Quoted message said:

    increased, my balance was now worse, and I was so tired that I would go


    back

    Quoted message said:

    to bed and sleep until 2:00-3:00 pm. Again, these problems would start


    going

    Quoted message said:

    away as the day progressed but now it seemed to take longer until I felt


    ok.

    Quoted message said:


    Everything came to a head yesterday ... I woke up at 5:15 am (I felt


    really

    Quoted message said:

    good), went to the bathroom, took the Actos, and went back to bed. Around
    7:15 am I woke up and felt worse than I ever have, my head felt like it


    was

    Quoted message said:

    going to explode, the problems with vision, mental confusion, dizziness,


    and

    Quoted message said:

    balance had greatly increased. After barely making it to and using the bathroom I tested my bg -
    it was 142. Since I felt so out of it and tired


    I

    Quoted message said:

    decided to go back to bed. After making it to my bedroom the last thing I remember is everything
    going black and a sensation of falling. After


    waking

    Quoted message said:

    up on the bedroom floor around 2:20 pm I called my wife at her work and


    told

    Quoted message said:

    her what had happened. My wife called the diabetic nurse who told her that it could not possibly
    be the Actos causing these problems, it must be something else, and I should see my doctor as soon
    as possible. Well, my regular doctor was not available so I ended up seeing the doctor taking


    his

    Quoted message said:

    place at 5:45 pm. The doctor I saw also told me that Actos could not and would not cause the
    problems I had been having ... and it would never


    cause

    Quoted message said:

    me to pass out. I asked the doctor why I would always feel good and alert when I woke every
    morning at 5:00 am to use the bathroom, take the Actos


    and

    Quoted message said:

    go back to bed, only to always have problems when I woke 2-3 hours later


    and

    Quoted message said:

    he said he did not know but the Actos would not cause these problems.


    After

    Quoted message said:

    arguing with the doctor about Actos for a few more minutes I told him I wanted to be taken off it
    and he said ok, sent me to the lab for a few general blood tests and I went home from there.

    Well, here it is around 11:00 am the next morning, I did not take any


    Actos

    Quoted message said:

    today and I woke up feeling great. No headaches, no problems with vision, balance, dizziness,
    mental confusion, etc. Nothing changed last night or today except I did not take the Actos this
    morning.

    Has anyone else taking Actos had any problems like this with it?

    -Kelly

  8. On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:09:59 -0500, "Jenny" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Actos is very new and its dangerous side effects are only gradually coming to light. -- Jenny -

    If they are coming to light, show me that light.

    SM

    -----------------------------------------------
    Let's Kick the Right Wing, Out of the West Wing
    -----------------------------------------------

  9. I take 30mg of Actos, along with Glucophage XR, Starlix and other drugs. I don't have any of the bad
    symptoms you describe, but I almost certain that Actos gives me bronchial congestion. When I take it
    I have bronchial congestion and a mild sore throat and cough, especially in the morning. I have
    taken myself off it 2 times for a week at a time, and these symptoms decreased or went away each
    time. I told my doctor about this, she said it could be a symptom of some fluid build up in my lungs
    from the Actos. Since I have no other symptoms of fluid build up, she left it up to me wither to
    keep taking it. It does improve my numbers, so I am staying on it, at least for the time being.

    TerryR

    "Kelly Tompkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I am a 51 yr. male and was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic


    in December 2002

    Quoted message said:

    with a bg of 814. After getting out of the hospital I was


    initially placed

    Quoted message said:

    on Metformin 1000 mg. & Glipizide 10 mg. Several months


    later my daily

    Quoted message said:

    medications were changed to: Metformin 2000 mg., Glipizide


    20 mg., Insulin R

    Quoted message said:

    & NPH.

    Approximately 9 months ago my diabetic nurse added Actos


    to my diabetic

    Quoted message said:

    medications (15 mg. in the morning & 15 mg. in the


    evening), since then I

    Quoted message said:

    have always had problems approximately 2-3 hours after


    taking this

    Quoted message said:

    medication - headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach


    upset & feeling

    Quoted message said:

    really tired. I always tested thinking I was having a hypo


    but my readings

    Quoted message said:

    were anywhere from 110 to 180 or above.

    Around 5 weeks ago the diabetic nurse increased my insulin


    and told me to

    Quoted message said:

    start taking a single dose of Actos (30 mg.) in the


    morning. I would take

    Quoted message said:

    the Actos around 5:00 am when I used the bathroom and then


    go back to bed

    Quoted message said:

    until 7:30-8:00 am, upon re-awaking for the day I would


    take the rest of my

    Quoted message said:

    medications. About 4 weeks ago I noticed when I woke up


    around 7:30-8:00 am

    Quoted message said:

    for the day, and prior to taking the rest of my


    medications, I was starting

    Quoted message said:

    to wake-up with more intense headaches, mental confusion,


    feeling really

    Quoted message said:

    tired, dizziness, and my balance now seemed to be affected


    (I would have to

    Quoted message said:

    hold on to things to keep from falling when walking).


    These problems would

    Quoted message said:

    slowly start going away as the day progressed. Starting


    about a week ago,

    Quoted message said:

    upon awakening for the day at 7:30-8:00 am, these problems


    increased ... I

    Quoted message said:

    now felt like someone had punched me in the head several


    times while I was

    Quoted message said:

    asleep, I had a problem focusing my vision, mental


    confusion & dizziness had

    Quoted message said:

    increased, my balance was now worse, and I was so tired


    that I would go back

    Quoted message said:

    to bed and sleep until 2:00-3:00 pm. Again, these problems


    would start going

    Quoted message said:

    away as the day progressed but now it seemed to take


    longer until I felt ok.

    Quoted message said:


    Everything came to a head yesterday ... I woke up at 5:15


    am (I felt really

    Quoted message said:

    good), went to the bathroom, took the Actos, and went back


    to bed. Around

    Quoted message said:

    7:15 am I woke up and felt worse than I ever have, my head


    felt like it was

    Quoted message said:

    going to explode, the problems with vision, mental


    confusion, dizziness, and

    Quoted message said:

    balance had greatly increased. After barely making it to


    and using the

    Quoted message said:

    bathroom I tested my bg - it was 142. Since I felt so out


    of it and tired I

    Quoted message said:

    decided to go back to bed. After making it to my bedroom


    the last thing I

    Quoted message said:

    remember is everything going black and a sensation of


    falling. After waking

    Quoted message said:

    up on the bedroom floor around 2:20 pm I called my wife at


    her work and told

    Quoted message said:

    her what had happened. My wife called the diabetic nurse


    who told her that

    Quoted message said:

    it could not possibly be the Actos causing these problems,


    it must be

    Quoted message said:

    something else, and I should see my doctor as soon as


    possible. Well, my

    Quoted message said:

    regular doctor was not available so I ended up seeing the


    doctor taking his

    Quoted message said:

    place at 5:45 pm. The doctor I saw also told me that Actos


    could not and

    Quoted message said:

    would not cause the problems I had been having ... and it


    would never cause

    Quoted message said:

    me to pass out. I asked the doctor why I would always feel


    good and alert

    Quoted message said:

    when I woke every morning at 5:00 am to use the bathroom,


    take the Actos and

    Quoted message said:

    go back to bed, only to always have problems when I woke


    2-3 hours later and

    Quoted message said:

    he said he did not know but the Actos would not cause


    these problems. After

    Quoted message said:

    arguing with the doctor about Actos for a few more minutes


    I told him I

    Quoted message said:

    wanted to be taken off it and he said ok, sent me to the


    lab for a few

    Quoted message said:

    general blood tests and I went home from there.

    Well, here it is around 11:00 am the next morning, I did


    not take any Actos

    Quoted message said:

    today and I woke up feeling great. No headaches, no


    problems with vision,

    Quoted message said:

    balance, dizziness, mental confusion, etc. Nothing changed


    last night or

    Quoted message said:

    today except I did not take the Actos this morning.

    Has anyone else taking Actos had any problems like this


    with it?

    Quoted message said:


    -Kelly

  10. Sleepyman,

    Over the past few months there have been reports in the Medscape Endocrinology newsletter of newly
    discovered side effects from the second generation glitazones. Macular Edema and congestive heart
    failure were the major ones.

    Thiazolidinediones Contraindicated in Patients at Risk for Heart Failure CME

    News Author: Laurie Barclay, MD CME Author: Charles Vega, MD Authors and Disclosures

    To earn CME credit, read the news brief, the paragraphs that follow, and answer the questions below.

    Release Date: December 8, 2003; Valid for credit through December 8, 2004

    Credits Available

    Physicians - up to 0.25 AMA PRA category 1 credit(s)

    Dec. 8, 2003 - A joint statement from the American Heart Association (AHA) and the American Diabetes
    Association (ADA), published in the Dec. 9 issue of Circulation, urges physicians not to prescribe
    thiazolidinediones (TZDs) to patients at risk for congestive heart failure (CHF). The statement will
    also be published in the January 2004 issue of Diabetes Care.

    "There is now widespread use of TZDs in a broad group of patients with type 2 diabetes," lead author
    Richard W. Nesto, MD, from the Lahey Clinic in Burlington, Massachusetts, says in a news release.
    "At the same time there have been reports of CHF associated with their use."

    The TZDs rosiglitazone maleate (Avandia) and pioglitazone hydrochloride (Actos) are indicated as
    monotherapy or as combination therapy for type 2 diabetes. Although these drugs help control blood
    glucose and may improve other cardiovascular risk factors including hypertension, high cholesterol,
    and inflammatory biomarkers, some patients treated with these drugs develop edema.

    "It is sometimes difficult to know whether such swelling is a benign side effect of the drugs or a
    more ominous sign of heart failure," Dr. Nesto says. "It is this common association that concerns
    both cardiologists and diabetologists."

    To balance improved glycemic control achieved with TZDs against potential risk, the joint statement
    writing committee reviewed existing trials to identify diabetic patients who are at increased risk
    for CHF and who may not be ideal candidates for TZDs.

    Recommendations of the consensus statement include avoidance of TZDs in patients with advanced heart
    disease or severe CHF. In patients with depressed ejection fraction but without symptoms of CHF,
    TZDs should be prescribed only if glycemic control cannot be achieved with other drugs, and in these
    cases TZDs should be started at low doses.

    The statement also recommends a "start low, go slow" regimen of TZDs for diabetics with mild to
    moderate CHF, and in those with one or more risk factors for CHF. Because diabetes is a
    cardiovascular risk factor, many patients given TZDs for diabetes could also have underlying
    heart disease.

    "But at this point we don't know the real risk because we don't know either the actual number of
    patients with diabetes who are taking a TZD and develop CHF, compared to the total number of
    patients who are taking a TZD," Dr. Nesto says. "This risk is probably quite low, but without solid
    data that's just guesswork."

    According to the statement, patients receiving TZD treatment should report weight gain of more than
    3 kg (6.6 lb), sudden onset of pedal edema, dyspnea, or fatigue. For CHF diagnosed after initiation
    of TZD therapy, "dosage change and temporary or permanent discontinuance are the obvious options,
    but no one of these is preferred for all patients," the authors write.

    Circulation. 2003;108:2941-2948

    ======

    Glitazone Use May Be Associated With Macular Edema in Diabetics

    Karla Harby

    Nov. 19, 2003 (Anaheim) - Results of a retrospective chart view suggest that glitazone use may be
    linked to the existence of macular edema in patients with diabetes, according to a study presented
    here at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Ophthalmology.

    Whether glitazones aggravate existing macular edema, or tend to be prescribed for patients who would
    have developed the condition anyway, or actually cause macular edema, cannot be determined from a
    retrospective study. But fluid retention is a recognized adverse effect of glitazone therapy and a
    known problem in the management of macular edema.

    Edwin Hurlbut Ryan, Jr., MD, who presented the study, said the review involved 30 patients seen over
    the past four years in his specialty referral practice in Du Bois, Pennsylvania.

    During an interview with Medscape, the discussant for the paper, Justin L. Gottlieb, MD, from the
    University of Wisconsin at Madison, noted that despite the limitations of this study, he now
    recommends that ophthalmologists question the use of glitazones in patients with macular edema.
    There are other ways to control diabetes besides administering glitazones, he pointed out.

    Physicians are already warned in the package inserts about using glitazones in patients with certain
    other conditions, such as congestive heart failure. "I think that's what this should be, a warning,
    so people are aware of it,"
    Dr. Gottlieb said.

    Ds. Ryan identified his study group through a computer search of records for the brand names Actos
    (pioglitazone) and Avandia (rosiglitazone). To be included, patients had to have clinically
    significant macular edema in at least one eye and lower extremity edema associated with
    glitazone use.

    The study cohort involved 19 men and 11 women with an average age of 61. Seventeen patients were
    taking pioglitazone, 11 were taking rosiglitazone, and two took both medications sequentially. Two
    patients received glitazones as monotherapy, 12 received other oral agents in addition to
    glitazones, seven received insulin alone with glitazones, seven received insulin plus oral agents
    and glitazones, and for two patients these data were unavailable.

    "All had pitting lower extremity edema, and in some cases it was quite severe," said Dr. Ryan.
    Average weight gain after initiation of glitazone therapy was 33 pounds. All 30 patients had macular
    edema, and 23 had bilateral disease. The average visual acuity at initial visit was 20/50.

    Ten patients were followed for more than three months after glitazones were discontinued, with an
    average follow-up of 10 months. "Patients and primary doctors were very reluctant to discontinue the
    drugs because of the good glycemic control they finally achieved," Dr. Ryan noted.

    Once the drugs were discontinued, patients experienced rapid reduction in lower extremity edema,
    usually returning to baseline in about two to three months, Dr. Ryan said. The weight lost after
    stopping glitazone therapy averaged 19 pounds. "Several patients reported improved exercise
    tolerance off the drugs," Dr. Ryan added.

    Dt. Ryan observed a reduction of macular edema in less than three months in only three of 10
    patients, but eventually observed a reduced degree of macular edema in seven of 10 patients over
    a one- to two-year period. The three patients who showed no decrease in macular edema had
    discontinued glitazone treatment for less than three months. Three eyes experienced a reduction
    in macular edema with no laser treatment.

    The average visual acuity at initial visit among these 10 patients was
    20/70, and at the most recent visit, the average was 20/90. "While most patients had a decrease in
    macular edema over time, visual improvement was not necessarily seen," Dr. Ryan noted.

    "The authors are to be commended for recognizing a potentially important cause of macular edema and
    visual loss, " said Dr. Gottlieb, whose search of the medical literature failed to uncover any
    previous reports associating glitazone use with macular edema.

    Du. Gottlieb pointed out that 50 of 60 eyes underwent laser photocoagulation for macular edema, and
    24 eyes underwent multiple sessions. But "the edema was unusually resistant to treatment and
    visual outcomes were poor despite control of fluid retention," he said. "Of note, only one
    patient experienced spontaneous resolution of macular edema with cessation of drug and
    resolution of fluid retention."

    Because the study was retrospective, it is not possible to deduce cause and effect, Dr. Gottlieb
    told the audience. "Despite the weaknesses, the association between fluid retention and macular
    edema is a logical one," he said. "We are aware of other causes of fluid retention that worsen
    macular edema. Treatment of these patients requires control of the medical disease as well as laser
    intervention."

    This study was independently funded. The speakers reported no pertinent financial disclosures.

    AAO 2003 Annual Meeting: Free Papers. Presented Nov. 18, 2003.

    Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD

    Karla Harby is a freelance writer for Medscape.

    -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs
    to respond to my email address!

    Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with
    diabetes and more at geocities.comjenny the bean

    Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit alt-support-alt-support-
    diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

    "Sleepyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:09:59 -0500, "Jenny" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Actos is very new and its dangerous side effects are only gradually


    coming

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to light. -- Jenny -

    If they are coming to light, show me that light.

    SM

    -----------------------------------------------
    Let's Kick the Right Wing, Out of the West Wing
    -----------------------------------------------

  11. On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:35:32 -0500, "Jenny" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Sleepyman,

    Over the past few months there have been reports in the Medscape Endocrinology newsletter of newly
    discovered side effects from the second generation glitazones. Macular Edema and congestive heart
    failure were the major ones.

    Thiazolidinediones Contraindicated in Patients at Risk for Heart Failure CME

    News Author: Laurie Barclay, MD CME Author: Charles Vega, MD Authors and Disclosures

    To earn CME credit, read the news brief, the paragraphs that follow, and answer the
    questions below.

    Release Date: December 8, 2003; Valid for credit through December 8, 2004

    Credits Available

    Physicians - up to 0.25 AMA PRA category 1 credit(s)

    Dec. 8, 2003 - A joint statement from the American Heart Association (AHA) and the American
    Diabetes Association (ADA), published in the Dec. 9 issue of Circulation, urges physicians not to
    prescribe thiazolidinediones (TZDs) to patients at risk for congestive heart failure (CHF). The
    statement will also be published in the January 2004 issue of Diabetes Care.

    "There is now widespread use of TZDs in a broad group of patients with type 2 diabetes," lead
    author Richard W. Nesto, MD, from the Lahey Clinic in Burlington, Massachusetts, says in a news
    release. "At the same time there have been reports of CHF associated with their use."

    The TZDs rosiglitazone maleate (Avandia) and pioglitazone hydrochloride (Actos) are indicated as
    monotherapy or as combination therapy for type 2 diabetes. Although these drugs help control blood
    glucose and may improve other cardiovascular risk factors including hypertension, high cholesterol,
    and inflammatory biomarkers, some patients treated with these drugs develop edema.

    "It is sometimes difficult to know whether such swelling is a benign side effect of the drugs or a
    more ominous sign of heart failure," Dr. Nesto says. "It is this common association that concerns
    both cardiologists and diabetologists."

    To balance improved glycemic control achieved with TZDs against potential risk, the joint statement
    writing committee reviewed existing trials to identify diabetic patients who are at increased risk
    for CHF and who may not be ideal candidates for TZDs.

    Recommendations of the consensus statement include avoidance of TZDs in patients with advanced
    heart disease or severe CHF. In patients with depressed ejection fraction but without symptoms of
    CHF, TZDs should be prescribed only if glycemic control cannot be achieved with other drugs, and in
    these cases TZDs should be started at low doses.

    The statement also recommends a "start low, go slow" regimen of TZDs for diabetics with mild to
    moderate CHF, and in those with one or more risk factors for CHF. Because diabetes is a
    cardiovascular risk factor, many patients given TZDs for diabetes could also have underlying
    heart disease.

    "But at this point we don't know the real risk because we don't know either the actual number of
    patients with diabetes who are taking a TZD and develop CHF, compared to the total number of
    patients who are taking a TZD," Dr. Nesto says. "This risk is probably quite low, but without solid
    data that's just guesswork."

    According to the statement, patients receiving TZD treatment should report weight gain of more than
    3 kg (6.6 lb), sudden onset of pedal edema, dyspnea, or fatigue. For CHF diagnosed after initiation
    of TZD therapy, "dosage change and temporary or permanent discontinuance are the obvious options,
    but no one of these is preferred for all patients," the authors write.

    Circulation. 2003;108:2941-2948

    ======


    That is why *you don't prescribe* TZDs to anyone with Severe Heart disease or CHF. You don't become
    blood brothers with a hemophiliac(sp?). Common sense. And if your doc doesn't have the common sense
    to be extremely careful with anyone with those risk factors, odds are h/s is probably going to kill
    you with something other than a TZD

    Quoted message said:

    Glitazone Use May Be Associated With Macular Edema in Diabetics

    Karla Harby

    Nov. 19, 2003 (Anaheim) - Results of a retrospective chart view suggest that glitazone use may be
    linked to the existence of macular edema in patients with diabetes, according to a study presented
    here at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Ophthalmology.

    Whether glitazones aggravate existing macular edema, or tend to be prescribed for patients who
    would have developed the condition anyway, or actually cause macular edema, cannot be determined
    from a retrospective study. But fluid retention is a recognized adverse effect of glitazone therapy
    and a known problem in the management of macular edema.

    Edwin Hurlbut Ryan, Jr., MD, who presented the study, said the review involved 30 patients seen
    over the past four years in his specialty referral practice in Du Bois, Pennsylvania.

    During an interview with Medscape, the discussant for the paper, Justin L. Gottlieb, MD, from the
    University of Wisconsin at Madison, noted that despite the limitations of this study, he now
    recommends that ophthalmologists question the use of glitazones in patients with macular edema.
    There are other ways to control diabetes besides administering glitazones, he pointed out.

    Physicians are already warned in the package inserts about using glitazones in patients with
    certain other conditions, such as congestive heart failure. "I think that's what this should be, a
    warning, so people are aware of it,"
    Dr. Gottlieb said.

    Dr. Ryan identified his study group through a computer search of records for the brand names Actos
    (pioglitazone) and Avandia (rosiglitazone). To be included, patients had to have clinically
    significant macular edema in at least one eye and lower extremity edema associated with
    glitazone use.

    The study cohort involved 19 men and 11 women with an average age of 61. Seventeen patients were
    taking pioglitazone, 11 were taking rosiglitazone, and two took both medications sequentially. Two
    patients received glitazones as monotherapy, 12 received other oral agents in addition to
    glitazones, seven received insulin alone with glitazones, seven received insulin plus oral agents
    and glitazones, and for two patients these data were unavailable.

    "All had pitting lower extremity edema, and in some cases it was quite severe," said Dr. Ryan.
    Average weight gain after initiation of glitazone therapy was 33 pounds. All 30 patients had
    macular edema, and 23 had bilateral disease. The average visual acuity at initial visit was 20/50.

    Ten patients were followed for more than three months after glitazones were discontinued, with an
    average follow-up of 10 months. "Patients and primary doctors were very reluctant to discontinue
    the drugs because of the good glycemic control they finally achieved," Dr. Ryan noted.

    Once the drugs were discontinued, patients experienced rapid reduction in lower extremity edema,
    usually returning to baseline in about two to three months, Dr. Ryan said. The weight lost after
    stopping glitazone therapy averaged 19 pounds. "Several patients reported improved exercise
    tolerance off the drugs," Dr. Ryan added.

    Dr. Ryan observed a reduction of macular edema in less than three months in only three of 10
    patients, but eventually observed a reduced degree of macular edema in seven of 10 patients
    over a one- to two-year period. The three patients who showed no decrease in macular edema had
    discontinued glitazone treatment for less than three months. Three eyes experienced a reduction
    in macular edema with no laser treatment.

    The average visual acuity at initial visit among these 10 patients was
    20/70, and at the most recent visit, the average was 20/90. "While most patients had a decrease in
    macular edema over time, visual improvement was not necessarily seen," Dr. Ryan noted.

    "The authors are to be commended for recognizing a potentially important cause of macular edema and
    visual loss, " said Dr. Gottlieb, whose search of the medical literature failed to uncover any
    previous reports associating glitazone use with macular edema.

    Dr. Gottlieb pointed out that 50 of 60 eyes underwent laser photocoagulation for macular edema, and
    24 eyes underwent multiple sessions. But "the edema was unusually resistant to treatment and
    visual outcomes were poor despite control of fluid retention," he said. "Of note, only one
    patient experienced spontaneous resolution of macular edema with cessation of drug and
    resolution of fluid retention."

    Because the study was retrospective, it is not possible to deduce cause and effect, Dr. Gottlieb
    told the audience. "Despite the weaknesses, the association between fluid retention and macular
    edema is a logical one," he said. "We are aware of other causes of fluid retention that worsen
    macular edema. Treatment of these patients requires control of the medical disease as well as laser
    intervention."

    This study was independently funded. The speakers reported no pertinent financial disclosures.

    AAO 2003 Annual Meeting: Free Papers. Presented Nov. 18, 2003.

    Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD

    Karla Harby is a freelance writer for Medscape.

    May, Could, Possibly, etc. seem to be the most often used words in that report. I didn't see any
    science anywhere. If you get lower extremity edema, you stop using it. If macular edema shows up,
    your ophthalmologist would certainly see it, and you would notice it. So you stop taking it! Seems
    simple enough to me. Everything in the world has some degree of risk associated with it .I am not
    sure, but don't you use Starlix/Prandin? You know darn well there is risk associated with that class
    of med, but you made an adult decision that the benefits outweighed the risk. Let's be honest here,
    you are very anti-med use. Most any sane person doesn't want to take any meds, unless truly needed.
    T2s don't take meds so they can eat things they shouldn't. I wish I could eat the things I
    shouldn't, but bottom line is I can't. Even with my meds. And if I didn't use my meds, I would be
    out of control. I even made the 4% club once. Of course I was in a hospital for two weeks on a
    saline IV, about 3 weeks before I had my quarterly blood work done.

    Sleepy

    -----------------------------------------------
    Let's Kick the Right Wing, Out of the West Wing
    -----------------------------------------------

  12. Quoted message said:

    since then I have always had problems approximately 2-3 hours after taking this medication -
    headaches, slight mental confusion, stomach upset & feeling really tired.

    My blood sugars were phenomenal while I was on Actos. I had the best numbers I've ever had.

    However, I also felt like I was going to pass out all the time, like the blood was draining from my
    head. I felt a constant pressure in my head, although I did not usually experience headaches. I also
    felt slightly off kilter and "foggy headed". Added to the 30lbs of mostly fluid that I gained in a
    flash, it simply did not work for me.......

    My doctor was so pleased with my numbers, that he insisted I stay on it. I actually sprang a leak on
    my leg after I accidently scratched a scar. It leaked a constant stream of water for 3 weeks, and I
    decided that was LONG ENOUGH. I quit taking it one day, faxed my doctor a letter informing him of my
    decision, and told him I wanted an Rx for Glucophage to start on again. I simply didn't ask, I told
    him what I intended to do, and if he hadn't obliged at that point, I would have found a new doctor.

    No one else has to live in this body but me, and no one else pays the consequences of poor control.
    Therefore, I have the last say in my care. Any doctor who can't understand and respect that won't be
    MY doctor.

    Bev

    Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please. Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server
    irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: diabetic-talk.orgdiabetic-talk.org

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