Trail Snow Free article slated on BBC

Following up to Iain

Quoted message said:

It'll probably be on BBC Scotland tonight at 1830.

Its on R4 mornig news with Cairngorm MR and Sir Chris B. saying , er, no the Lairag Ghru (no I cant
spell it) can NOT be guaranteed snow free!
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Wasdale, Thames path, London, landscapes
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-fell-Open ↗
walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Iain said:

Just listened to a very interesting article where it seemed the entire mountaineering 'management'
community in Scotland absolutely slating Trail magazine for publishing an article this month
promoting 'snow free' winter routes in Scotland.

Armchair mountaineers strike once again. Just goes to show paper will take on anything.

Sylvester. . . . Thought For The Day
-----------------------------------------------------------------
" You can always tell when a politician is lying. Their lips move."
- Max Headroom
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Iain said:

Just listened to a very interesting article where it seemed the entire mountaineering 'management'
community in Scotland absolutely slating Trail magazine for publishing an article this month
promoting 'snow free' winter routes in Scotland. If anyone has read it, they're suggesting some
fairly substantial terrain in known winter rescue black spots. It'll probably be on BBC Scotland
tonight at 1830.

Details here news.bbc.co.uk3241172.stmOpen ↗

Remember folks, before you go out anywhere this winter, write down exactly what your plans are, plus
details of your experience, and send copies to both the BMC and legendary mountaineer Sir Chris B
asking permission.

Reid said:

Its on R4 mornig news with Cairngorm MR and Sir Chris B. saying , er, no the Lairag Ghru (no I
cant spell it) can NOT be guaranteed snow free!

Just project a date next year to ski it, and I'm pretty bloody sure there won't be any in it then,
moan, grumble, grumble... ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Details here
news.bbc.co.uk3241172.stmOpen ↗

Remember folks, before you go out anywhere this winter, write down exactly what your plans are,
plus details of your experience, and send copies to both the BMC and legendary mountaineer Sir
Chris B asking permission.

Remember folks, if you edit a popular [censored] glossy, check your facts before your gearpushing, bothy
wrecking masterpiece goes to press.

Richard Webb

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Reid said:

Its on R4 mornig news with Cairngorm MR and Sir Chris B. saying , er, no the Lairag Ghru (no I
cant spell it) can NOT be guaranteed snow free!

Just project a date next year to ski it, and I'm pretty bloody sure there won't be any in it then,
moan, grumble, grumble... ;-/

Murphy's Law Pete - You can guarantee when you want to ski that will be the only time when it is
snow free ;-)

Carol

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just project a date next year to ski it, and I'm pretty bloody sure there won't be any in it
then, moan, grumble, grumble... ;-/

Murphy's Law Pete - You can guarantee when you want to ski that will be

the

Quoted message said:

only time when it is snow free ;-)

Glencoe don't seem to be expecting much snow: news.bbc.co.uk3243142.stmOpen ↗

Jiffy

Following up to RJ Webb

Quoted message said:

Remember folks, if you edit a popular [censored] glossy,

that's my opinion of it too.
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames,
London etc "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site and for Spain at "fell-fell-Open ↗
walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Details here news.bbc.co.uk3241172.stmOpen ↗

Remember folks, before you go out anywhere this winter, write down exactly what your plans are,
plus details of your experience, and send copies to both the BMC and legendary mountaineer Sir
Chris B asking permission.

Remember folks, if you edit a popular [censored] glossy, check your facts before your gearpushing, bothy
wrecking masterpiece goes to press.

Richard Webb

Is this the part that offends ?

From Trail magazine Dec 2003. QUOTE "But at least today I am safe in the knowledge I'm following an
easy route. Easy in that it has no tricky navigation, no steep snow slopes to cross and no cliffs to
fall off if the weather's awful. What it doesn't mean, as 'easy' so often does, is second-rate. The
Lairig Ghru is a challenging walk with history and pedigree. It's no namby-pamby second best option
(cut) the most challenging, wild and ferocious country in Britain" UNQUOTE

Says it all to me, I'm quite happy with that description. It added more to my own experience of the
area and there's more in the article(s) I agree with than disagree with.

On an interesting note I read this yesterday - sundayherald.com38359Open ↗

The following part puzzled me,

Quoted message said:

As it happens, I have myself traversed the Lairig Ghru, from Blair Atholl

to Aviemore, >including a night's free B&B under the Shelter Stone at the top of the pass, and
another >in the Corrour Bothy, which had a delux mud floor, custom-made corrugated tin roof and >en
suite bucket.

I only know of the one Shelter Stone in the area, the one to the immediate west of Loch A'an south
of Cairngorm, it seems a strange way of walking the Lairig Ghru, so is there another Shelter Stone
which is in the Lairig Ghru?

KRO Trail subscriber!

The message <[email hidden]>
from "KRO" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

The following part puzzled me, As it happens, I have myself traversed the Lairig Ghru, from Blair
Atholl to Aviemore, >including a night's free B&B under the Shelter Stone at the top of the pass,
and another >in the Corrour Bothy, which had a delux mud floor, custom-made corrugated tin roof
and >en suite bucket.

Quoted message said:

I only know of the one Shelter Stone in the area, the one to the immediate west of Loch A'an south
of Cairngorm, it seems a strange way of walking the Lairig Ghru, so is there another Shelter Stone
which is in the Lairig Ghru?

I don't know (I have only traversed the Lairig Ghru from West to East) but ISTR that there are a lot
of boulders at the top of the pass so it could be possible. The bit above I find hard to credit is
that he needed to back-track 3.5 miles for his 2nd night out but perhaps after a night in the
(almost) open at nearly 3000 feet he needed to find somewhere to recuperate.

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight

Its the snow free bit that is the problem! .

Quoted message said:

I only know of the one Shelter Stone in the area, the one to the immediate west of Loch A'an south
of Cairngorm, it seems a strange way of walking the Lairig Ghru, so is there another Shelter Stone
which is in the Lairig Ghru?

KRO Trail subscriber!

I think that is typical press. Trail is by no means bottom of the pile

Richard Webb

Mike Reid wrote :

Quoted message said:

that's my opinion of it too.

It's still better than TGO.

--

Bernie Get back on the wagon to reply..

"KRO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fca5e6b.18069406@news-
text.blueyonder.co.uk...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Details here news.bbc.co.uk3241172.stmOpen ↗

Remember folks, before you go out anywhere this winter, write down exactly what your plans are,
plus details of your experience, and send copies to both the BMC and legendary mountaineer Sir
Chris B asking permission.

Remember folks, if you edit a popular [censored] glossy, check your facts before your gearpushing,
bothy wrecking masterpiece goes to press.

Richard Webb

Is this the part that offends ?

From Trail magazine Dec 2003. QUOTE "But at least today I am safe in the knowledge I'm
following an easy

route.

Quoted message said:

Easy in that it has no tricky navigation, no steep snow slopes to cross and no cliffs to fall off
if the weather's awful. What it doesn't mean, as 'easy' so often does, is second-rate. The Lairig
Ghru is a challenging walk with history and pedigree. It's no namby-pamby second best option (cut)
the most challenging, wild and ferocious country in Britain" UNQUOTE

Says it all to me, I'm quite happy with that description. It added more to my own experience of
the area and there's more in the article(s) I agree with than disagree with.

I think the offending comments are "three super routes that guarantee a high time below the snow",
"Below the snowline", "Mega routes, no snow", "Even the worst winter weather can't spoil todays
route. There will be no deep snow". Then there are all the photos with barely a touch of frost in
sight. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Trail, but this time they've definitely got it
wrong. And they can't use the defence that the average Trail reader is experienced enough to
interpret this - the magazine has always carried lots of "beginners" articles and will even have a
snow skills feature next month!

druidh

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so is there another Shelter Stone which is in the Lairig Ghru?

I've been through the Lairig Ghru about four times. I don't know of any stones that offer shelter in
it. There's 'Clach na Teiler' (spelling?), which is a group of very large stones at the base of
MacDui, where three tailors are reputed to have perished when they made a bet that they could dance
a reel on Speyside and Deeside on a New Years Eve. But I don't think that counts a 'Shelter' stone!
There's also another big one where Glen Geusachan meets the Lairig - but it doesn't offer much
shelter (besides IIRC you need to negotiate the infant Dee and a bog to get to it!).

I've not read the Trail article - might get it this week just to see.

Regards: Jim Ford

"druidh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think the offending comments are "three super routes that guarantee a

high

Quoted message said:

time below the snow", "Below the snowline", "Mega routes, no snow", "Even the worst winter weather
can't spoil todays route. There will be no deep snow".

Yes, well, mmmm... see your point kind of. I've just read somewhere (yesterday for gods sake, and I
can't remember where!) that Ben Nevis is only a couple of hundred feet lower than the permanent
snowline. Anyone amplify on this?

KRO

Jim Ford said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so is there another Shelter Stone which is in the Lairig Ghru?

I've been through the Lairig Ghru about four times. I don't know of any stones that offer shelter
in it. There's 'Clach na Teiler' (spelling?), which is a group of very large stones at the base of
MacDui, where three tailors are reputed to have perished when they made a bet that they could
dance a reel on Speyside and Deeside on a New Years Eve. But I don't think that counts a 'Shelter'
stone! There's also another big one where Glen Geusachan meets the Lairig - but it doesn't offer
much shelter (besides IIRC you need to negotiate the infant Dee and a bog to get to it!).

I've not read the Trail article - might get it this week just to see.

Regards: Jim Ford

Seems they may have their passes wrong. The following was taken from here.

srcf.ucam.orgCAIRNGRM.phpOpen ↗

"The Lairig an Laoigh is longer and less imposing than the Lairig Ghru and it is very rarely used.
This pass is bordered by Ben MacDhui and Cairngorm on one side and by Ben Avon and Beinn a Bhuird on
the other, but the mountains do not crowd in so closely as they do in the Lairig Ghru. The whole
pass is wild and desolate and the path cheerfully makes its way through rocks, bogs and long-tufted
grass. At its mid point it crosses the Avon Valley and this can involve a cold and unpleasant
crossing of the river if there has been much rain. The Lairig an Laoigh can be left at this point
and the Avon Valley followed up to the Shelter Stone by Loch Avon or down ' to civilisation at
Cockbridge or Tomintoul. The Shelter Stone is, by the way, a rather crude natural shelter, made
reasonably comfortable by its users. The surroundings are very rugged and it is possible that some
rock climbing might be had in this district."

The rest is worth a read, especially the bit about taking a catapult with you to kill the ptarmigan
for fresh meat 🙂

--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden] Website:- ftscotland.co.ukftscotland.co.ukOpen ↗ IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble
uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667 #Rabble Channel Website:- ftscotland.co.ukrabbledOpen ↗
ICQ : 41266150

KRO said:

I've just read somewhere (yesterday for gods sake, and I can't remember where!) that Ben Nevis is
only a couple of hundred feet lower than the permanent snowline. Anyone amplify on this?

What permanent snowline? You get glaciers in Norway that aren't that much higher (say, the
Hardanger), but there's more to it than just altitude. Fort Bill is relatively mild because of an
oceanic climate warmed by the Gulf Stream, it will have different climatic characteristics to other
places so a different nominal "snowmen".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, KRO <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"druidh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:USOyb.509$VQ5.278@news-
binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

Quoted message said:

I think the offending comments are "three super routes that guarantee a

high

Quoted message said:

time below the snow", "Below the snowline", "Mega routes, no snow", "Even the worst winter
weather can't spoil todays route. There will be no deep snow".

Yes, well, mmmm... see your point kind of. I've just read somewhere (yesterday for gods sake, and I
can't remember where!) that Ben Nevis is only a couple of hundred feet lower than the permanent
snowline. Anyone amplify on this?

I was told at school that Ben Nevis wouldn't have to be much higher to start a baby glacier, and it
used to be very rare for there not to be any snow patches on the N. face. However remember Adam
Watson's recent work counting snow patches - they have greatly diminished in number & size over the
past 20 or 30 years.

BTW there was a legend that if there was no snow on the Ben then the days were numbered for the
Camerons of Locheil - or something along those lines!

--
Five Cats Email to: cats_spam at uk2 dot net

* Sandy <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

"The Lairig an Laoigh is longer and less imposing than the Lairig Ghru and it is very rarely used.
This pass is bordered by Ben MacDhui and Cairngorm on one side and by Ben Avon and Beinn a Bhuird
on the other, but the

Geography's a bit odd - from memory, Lairig an Laoigh is bordered on the North by (approaching from
the East) Bynack More and Derry Cairngorm. I don't think the writer could have been there!

Quoted message said:

mountains do not crowd in so closely as they do in the Lairig Ghru. The whole pass is wild and
desolate and the path cheerfully makes its way through rocks, bogs and long-tufted grass. At
its mid point it crosses the Avon Valley and this can involve a cold and unpleasant crossing of
the river

I'll vouch for the unpleasant crossing! I've never found what I'd call a ford - it's been up
to my knees!

Quoted message said:

to civilisation at Cockbridge or Tomintoul. The Shelter Stone is, by the way, a rather crude
natural shelter, made reasonably comfortable by its

I've had a look, but never been tempted by the Shelter Stone - it's all pretty sordid in
the vicinity!

Regards: Jim Ford