Scottish roads in winter

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy P <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates on the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to
pass in winter?

Not often. Approximately when you see on the news the pictures of blizzards and cars slid off the
road. The snowgates are closed to stop cars driving into areas where they are at risk, but in my
experience they don't close more than once maybe a year, and often not at all.

However I can't guarantee the weather in Feb 04 <g>.

Minor roads can be worse, but really there aren't any in the Highlands. The reason snow stops most
people getting to work is that they can't get to the main road, ie down their drive, or down the
unclassified road.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates

on

Quoted message said:

the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to pass in winter?

I work all over the Highlands and the 'gates' you mention are very rarely closed. Unlike England
gritting up here is very well done and it's very rare for main roads to be icy.

However, side roads are another matter. They take a lower priority and often they are ungritted
and slippy.

Clive

Andy P said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates on the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to
pass in winter?

Main roads are kept open - the Scots expect snow and prepare for it. Unlike the feckless idiots down
here the councils actually read the forecast and grit the roads.

Minor roads are another matter however. If you are going off A-roads, carry snowchains, shovel, warm
clothing, torch, food and drink.

Best of all, learn winter driving skills and skid management.
--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Street
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Best of all, learn winter driving skills and skid management.

Yeah, that's true. I was born in Yorkshire and learned to drive there in the days when we
got snow <g>.

Then I moved to Dorset and the chaos that a little snow brought was unbelievable

a) no salting or gritting and there were literally NO snow ploughs at all
b) drivers going up slight hills in 1st and sliding and getting stuck.
c) general lack of skid management skills.

I very nearly didn't get home one night because of idiots blocking the road.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Chris Street) writes:

OTOH, I rode that bike safely through London streets which were completely deserted of moving
traffic because they were covered in solid packed snow which the locals had no clue about to drive
over, all those who tried it sliding into the gutter and abandoning their cars.
--

Some years ago I happend to be on business in Munich. The night before my departure it snowed
unexpectedly and next day the streets were white and uncleared, 1-2" of snow. I despaired of getting
to the airport. But the taxi came and all was well. The Germans drove gently and well on their snow-
packed streets and I saw not one accident.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

Following up to Andy P

Quoted message said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates on the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to
pass in winter?

I carry chains for rear wheels and a collapsible spade, and have used them on Rannoch moor.
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗"
<-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-walker.co.ukfell-walker.co.ukOpen ↗" <--
dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Chris Street said:

Best of all, learn winter driving skills and skid management.

Colin McRae Rally is good for that... ;-)

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Chris Street said:

Main roads are kept open - the Scots expect snow and prepare for it.

But make a point of washing your car, including the underneath, when you go. The amount of salt
corrosion can be pretty amazing if you don't keep on top of it.

Quoted message said:

Unlike the feckless idiots down here the councils actually read the forecast and grit the roads.

There is a degree of reason to the lack of gritting and ploughing dahn sahf, and that's the distinct
possibility that the cost of the infrastructure to do it to Scottish levels would be considerably
greater than the cost of problems caused by not doing it. If you want lots of gritting lorries and
ploughs standing idle in a council yard 363 days of a typical year then run for the local council on
that platform...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Not often. Approximately when you see on the news the pictures of blizzards and cars slid off the
road. The snowgates are closed to stop cars driving into areas where they are at risk, but in my
experience they don't close more than once maybe a year, and often not at all.

When these conditions do happen, how do the trains do ? Is one form of transport more likely to keep
going than another ? I too am thinking of going up Feb 1/2 term. I've been before in winter, driven
up, but I have picked my weekends; this time I will have things booked so if trains run when cars
dont, then I'll go by train, I dont have much snow-ice driving experience, so may decline to drive
even if road gates are open.

Reid said:

Following up to Andy P

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates on the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to
pass in winter?

Quoted message said:

I carry chains for rear wheels and a collapsible spade, and have used them on Rannoch moor.

An old AA repairman's joke: "You know Spring is coming when the birds take the chains off the rear
wheels of their Minis."

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:48:05 +0100, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Street
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Best of all, learn winter driving skills and skid management.

Yeah, that's true. I was born in Yorkshire and learned to drive there in the days when we got
snow <g>.

Yeah, I did the same in Sheffield and Matlock. Then I graduated to the Alps last winter......

Quoted message said:

Then I moved to Dorset and the chaos that a little snow brought was unbelievable

You should have tried the M11 last winter. You would have cried. No grit, no sense, no driving
skills to be seen. One person in ten with food water and a blanket. Pathetic.

Quoted message said:

a) no salting or gritting and there were literally NO snow ploughs at all
b) drivers going up slight hills in 1st and sliding and getting stuck.
c) general lack of skid management skills.

This all sounds scariely familiar. Winter afore last someone needed to drive to Edinburgh in the
snow and the entire office wimped out as there was about two inches. Guess which mug got the job.

I nearly did come unstuck at Caerfraemill though on the way back. Snowchains are wonderful devices
although you must remember they don't make you omnipotent.

Quoted message said:

I very nearly didn't get home one night because of idiots blocking the road.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

Following up to Bernard Hill

Quoted message said:

Then I moved to Dorset and the chaos that a little snow brought was unbelievable

a) no salting or gritting and there were literally NO snow ploughs at all
b) drivers going up slight hills in 1st and sliding and getting stuck.
c) general lack of skid management skills.

I very nearly didn't get home one night because of idiots blocking the road.

Why was it unbelievable? If snow is rare there is little investment in equipment. Drivers generally
have little experience.

Snow will be cleared efficiently where it happens a lot Less efficiently where it is rare.

This is a fact of economic life that many people do not seem able to grasp, I heard a woman on the
radio last time it snowed in London say "It hardly ever happens so why cant they deal with it?"
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗"
<-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-walker.co.ukfell-walker.co.ukOpen ↗" <--
dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Peter Clinch said:

Chris Street said:

Main roads are kept open - the Scots expect snow and prepare for it.

But make a point of washing your car, including the underneath, when you go. The amount of salt
corrosion can be pretty amazing if you don't keep on top of it.

Quoted message said:

Unlike the feckless idiots down here the councils actually read the forecast and grit the roads.

There is a degree of reason to the lack of gritting and ploughing dahn sahf, and that's the
distinct possibility that the cost of the infrastructure to do it to Scottish levels would be
considerably greater than the cost of problems caused by not doing it. If you want lots of
gritting lorries and ploughs standing idle in a council yard 363 days of a typical year then run
for the local council on that platform...

I don't doubt that they will have less equipment - it's when they screw up and don't send out what
little they have, or send it too late that really annoys me.

Quoted message said:

Pete.

carl said:

Quoted message said:

Not often. Approximately when you see on the news the pictures of blizzards and cars slid off the
road. The snowgates are closed to stop cars driving into areas where they are at risk, but in my
experience they don't close more than once maybe a year, and often not at all.

When these conditions do happen, how do the trains do ? Is one form of transport more likely to
keep going than another ? I too am thinking of going up Feb 1/2 term. I've been before in winter,
driven up, but I have picked my weekends; this time I will have things booked so if trains run when
cars dont, then I'll go by train, I dont have much snow-ice driving experience, so may decline to
drive even if road gates are open.

The A roads are pretty much passable all the time. I have been going to Scotland in February for the
past few years and the only road I have come across that was impassable is the one past the starship
enterprise on the flank of Ben Lawers. The road up Glen Lyon was perfectly passable ( the gritter is
stationed just up the valley from the main road) and the worst conditions I have come across is
slush by Loch Tay.

As far as trains are concerned they will be running in all but the most extreme circumstances.
Before they were privatised the Scottish Region of BR invested in state of the art snow blowers as
used by the Swiss and I don't think they will have become unusable in the meantime

i always have a sleeping bag with me in the car when I drive in winter in Scotland and have some
food and water with me. Actually this is a habit I practice when driving any distance in winter
since I was nearly caught on a snowbound M20 returning from Ghent to London in November.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

(Chris Street) said:

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:48:05 +0100, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a) no salting or gritting and there were literally NO snow ploughs at all
b) drivers going up slight hills in 1st and sliding and getting stuck.
c) general lack of skid management skills.

Quoted message said:

This all sounds scariely familiar. Winter afore last someone needed to drive to Edinburgh in the
snow and the entire office wimped out as there was about two inches. Guess which mug got the job.

Did that once on a large motorcycle (Norton Commando). Dropped it at low speed on a snowed over
corner going over Shap where the edge of the road couldn't be seen, and I rode it into a concealed
bank of gravel. It was then I discovered the folly of riding a motorcycle which you can't lift up
when you're cold and tired and standing on slippery stuff :-)

OTOH, I rode that bike safely through London streets which were completely deserted of moving
traffic because they were covered in solid packed snow which the locals had no clue about to drive
over, all those who tried it sliding into the gutter and abandoning their cars.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Bernard Hill said:

Some years ago I happend to be on business in Munich. The night before my departure it snowed
unexpectedly and next day the streets were white and uncleared, 1-2" of snow. I despaired of
getting to the airport. But the taxi came and all was well. The Germans drove gently and well on
their snow-packed streets and I saw not one accident.

They do put winter tyres on, though. In fact I think you get fined, if you have the wrong set of
tyres on and some insurances might not want to pay out in such a case.

Over here however, getting a second set of tyres for the 2 days every few years there is a problem
is not finanically viable.

Stefan

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

We were thinking of going to the Highlands in February half term. Having never been in winter
before my girlfriend is a bit concerned about the conditions of the roads (let alone the hills),
having seen the snow gates

on

Quoted message said:

the A82 etc. How often do main or minor roads become difficult to pass in winter?

Ta for the responses.

It used to be much better than it is now. Two winters ago they split the contracts between the main
roads (A9 etc) and the rest. The result was that the A9 had fewer(BEAR)snowploughs as they covered a
huge distance between depots and Highland council had to sell off it's fleet and now can't cover the
rest of the roads. In the winter before I upped sticks and moved to Spain, we had uncleared snow on
our street for about 6 weeks over the winter while the A9 was mostly cleared (though not on the
night my son was born and we had to drive through three inches of snow on the A9 from Aviemore to
Inverness to get to the Hospital...) Never used to happen whan Highland Council were responsible for
the whole lot IIRC...

Jim www.seasonallyunadjusted.com

Reid© said:

This is a fact of economic life that many people do not seem able to grasp, I heard a woman on the
radio last time it snowed in London say "It hardly ever happens so why cant they deal with it?"

The earth hardly ever gets hit with 5 mile long lumps of rock either.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
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