mountain lions on urban fringe book

IMBA Jim scribbled on a scrap of paper:

Quoted message said:

There was a lion story in the Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple months ago. It was an excerpt
from an amazing book _The Beast in the Garden_ by David Baron. It describes and explains changes
in lion behavior over time on the urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the case study, but Orange
County is mentioned several times. It's well written, well argued and a fascinating read.
www.beastinthegarden.com

One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is the discovery and appreciation of natural
processes. This is certainly something we need to learn more about. Jim Hasenauer

This is the book they are referencing in the NPR peicec I heard a few days prior to this event.

Penny

Penny S said:

IMBA Jim scribbled on a scrap of paper:

Quoted message said:

There was a lion story in the Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple months ago. It was an excerpt
from an amazing book _The Beast in the Garden_ by David Baron. It describes and explains changes
in lion behavior over time on the urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the case study, but Orange
County is mentioned several times. It's well written, well argued and a fascinating read.
www.beastinthegarden.com

One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is the discovery and appreciation of natural
processes. This is certainly something we need to learn more about. Jim Hasenauer

This is the book they are referencing in the NPR peicec I heard a few days prior to this event.

Penny

It sounds really good. I gonna pick up a copy.
--
Slacker

On 10 Jan 2004 22:06:38 GMT, [email hidden] (IMBA Jim) wrote:

.There was a lion story in the Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple months ago.
. It was an excerpt from an amazing book _The Beast in the Garden_ by David .Baron. It describes and
explains changes in lion behavior over time on the .urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the case
study, but Orange County is .mentioned several times. It's well written, well argued and a
fascinating .read. .www.beastinthegarden.com . .One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is
the discovery and appreciation .of natural processes. This is certainly something we need to learn
more about.
. Jim Hasenauer

But you haven't learned anything, so you must not be CAPABLE of learning.

The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my view that
(1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat and disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and
(2) humans don't belong EVERYWHERE; wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve
to have habitat that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are
dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the Cleveland National Forest
to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.

It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to survive, the only way it knows
how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal first, and then try to justify it (by claiming
it was the culprit) later. Among humans, you are innocent till proven guilty.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Whiting Ranch is not part of the Cleveland National Forest. It is surrounded by houses and is a very
popular family hiking area. Would you prefer wait for the cat to jump a fence and grab a child out
of someone's back yard. You truly are a dangerous man.

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 10 Jan 2004 22:06:38 GMT, [email hidden] (IMBA Jim) wrote:

.There was a lion story in the Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple

months ago.

Quoted message said:

. It was an excerpt from an amazing book _The Beast in the Garden_ by

David

Quoted message said:

.Baron. It describes and explains changes in lion behavior over time on

the

Quoted message said:

.urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the case study, but Orange County

is

Quoted message said:

.mentioned several times. It's well written, well argued and a

fascinating

Quoted message said:

.read. .www.beastinthegarden.com . .One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is the
discovery and

appreciation

Quoted message said:

.of natural processes. This is certainly something we need to learn more

about.

Quoted message said:

. Jim Hasenauer

But you haven't learned anything, so you must not be CAPABLE of learning.

The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my

view that

Quoted message said:

(1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat

and

Quoted message said:

disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong

EVERYWHERE;

Quoted message said:

wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have

habitat

Quoted message said:

that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are dangerous to humans.
Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the

Cleveland

Quoted message said:

National Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.

It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to

survive, the

Quoted message said:

only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal

first,

Quoted message said:

and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among

humans,

Quoted message said:

you are innocent till proven guilty.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:32:16 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote:

.On 10 Jan 2004 22:06:38 GMT, [email hidden] (IMBA Jim) wrote: . ..There was a lion story in the
Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple months ago. .. It was an excerpt from an amazing book _The
Beast in the Garden_ by David ..Baron. It describes and explains changes in lion behavior over time
on the ..urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the case study, but Orange County is ..mentioned
several times. It's well written, well argued and a fascinating ..read. ..www.beastinthegarden.com
.. ..One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is the discovery and appreciation ..of natural
processes. This is certainly something we need to learn more about. .. Jim Hasenauer . .But you
haven't learned anything, so you must not be CAPABLE of learning.

(Jim teaches Rhetoric -- the art of effective lying. Quite appropriate, for a mountain biker.)

.The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my view that .(1) bicycles
don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .pavement; they make it too easy for
people to get into wildlife habitat and .disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't
belong EVERYWHERE; .wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have habitat
.that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .dangerous to humans.
Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the Cleveland .National Forest to human access is the
only appropriate response to this .incident. . .It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was
just trying to survive, the .only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal
first, .and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among humans, .you are
innocent till proven guilty. .=== .I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .years fighting auto dependence and
road construction.) . .home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Your view is not worth the keystrokes it takes to express it.

"Dean A. Stepper" <[email hidden]> sez 'bout Mikee Vee:

<snip> You truly are a dangerous man. <snip>

Someone wiser than I wrote:

"Do not attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Good ridin' to ya, VLJ
--
Take only pictures, leave only bullet holes (in the occasional mountain
lion) ...

Mike Vandeman said:

On 10 Jan 2004 22:06:38 GMT, [email hidden] (IMBA Jim) wrote:

.There was a lion story in the Outdoors Section of LA Times a couple months ago.
. It was an excerpt from an amazing book _The Beast in the Garden_ by David .Baron. It describes
and explains changes in lion behavior over time on the .urban fringe. It uses Boulder, CO as the
case study, but Orange County is .mentioned several times. It's well written, well argued and a
fascinating .read. .www.beastinthegarden.com . .One of the great pleasures of mountain biking is
the discovery and appreciation .of natural processes. This is certainly something we need to
learn more about.
. Jim Hasenauer

But you haven't learned anything, so you must not be CAPABLE of learning.

I am clear you have not learned anything. Unfortunately Baron's book is largely supposition and not
inferences based on empirical data. Experts on the species (as myself) generally find the book a
joke. While he suggest that the permissive attitudes in Boulder may have contributed to Scott
Lancaster's death in 1991. He fails to recognize the 25 miles that separate the two areas means that
the young cougar in question could have come from an area of 2000 square miles and therefore, almost
assuredly did not come from Boulder.

Quoted message said:

The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my view that
(1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat and disturb the wildlife whose home it is;
and (2) humans don't belong EVERYWHERE; wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and
deserve to have habitat that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that
are dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the Cleveland National
Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.

It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to survive, the only way it knows
how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal first, and then try to justify it (by
claiming it was the culprit) later. Among humans, you are innocent till proven guilty.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

An interesting recent book is the "Beast in the Garden" by the National Public Radio outdoors
correspondent. His contention is that subarban growth introduced lush habitat of parks and trees are
garden. First come the lion prey like rabbits and deer, and then the lions themselves. The lions
become aclimated to humans when thye arent hunted, and a few will attack full-size humans
themselves. He uses the example of Boulder Colorado, a fairly barren ranch area until the creation
of the college in 1976. Then came the upscale professorville with lots of parks and trees. The first
deer returned in the 1980s and lions spotted in 1987. A 2nd or 3rd generation lion then ate a high
school jogger in 1991.