starches

In article <gD6yb.15693$f7.754618@localhost>, [email hidden] ()

Quoted message said:

I decided to try and leave starch foods out of my breakfast and just concentrate on protein, some
fat, fruit and vegetables and on testing found my Bg to be 2 mmol/L lower than when I have the
starch. I have felt for a long time that for me anyways, starches are the trigger for spikes. I am
on diet alone.

Yes, that is why many diabetics eat a low-carb diet.

Priscilla

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gD6yb.15693$f7.754618@localhost...

Quoted message said:

I decided to try and leave starch foods out of my breakfast and just concentrate on protein, some
fat, fruit and vegetables and on testing found my Bg to be 2 mmol/L lower than when I have the
starch. I have felt for a long time that for me anyways, starches are the trigger for spikes. I am
on diet alone.

That's what diabetes is, the inability to handle carbs properly. But keep in mind that some fruit is
very high in carbs. I don't know what kind of fruit you ate. Some people find that berries work well
for them. But some fruit will raise your BG just like bread will.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

"Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gD6yb.15693$f7.754618@localhost...

Quoted message said:

I decided to try and leave starch foods out of my breakfast and just concentrate on protein,
some fat, fruit and vegetables and on testing found my Bg to be 2 mmol/L lower than when I have
the starch. I have felt for a long time that for me anyways, starches are the trigger for
spikes. I am on diet alone.

That's what diabetes is, the inability to handle carbs properly.

Diabetes is more the inability to handle fats properly, this in turn causes an impaired sugar
metabolism but, since we're talking about diabetes type 2, is the adipocites fat stored the main
cause and not a lack of insulin becuse of immune beta cells destruction like in diabetes type 1

Quoted message said:

But keep in mind that some fruit is very high in carbs. I don't know what kind of fruit you ate.
Some people find that berries work well for them. But some fruit will raise your BG just like
bread will.

No, there's no fruit with a glycaemic index so high as bread (except dates) and majority of fruits
are low glycaemic index food that are not supposed to raise BG more than other foods Diabetes that
consume much fruits (low GI, i.e. less than 55) do much better that those that avoid fruits, both
for phytochemical properties and improved glucose intolerance due to fructose + fibers Also, as long
as you control your weight, caloric intake and resolve the fat problem diabetes is under control and
carbohydrates (we're talking about non refined carbohydrates) are handled properly even in diabetic
individuals That's the reason the last research on diets found that the only diet that seriously
lower insulin is an high unrefined-carbohydrates diet instead of a low carb one that doesn't lower
serum insulin much Diabetic has always done wonderful in the high carbohydrates diets (high fruits,
vegetables, whole cereals, legumes) while refined carbohydrates are the culpright

(One Year Effectiveness of the Atkins, Ornish, Weight Watchers, and Zone Diets in Decreasing Body
Weight and Heart Disease Risk. Abstract
3535)

Home_sweet_emoH said:

"Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gD6yb.15693$f7.754618@localhost...

Quoted message said:

I decided to try and leave starch foods out of my breakfast and just concentrate on protein, some
fat, fruit and vegetables and on testing found my Bg to be 2 mmol/L lower than when I have the
starch. I have felt for a long time that for me anyways, starches are the trigger for spikes. I
am on diet alone.

That's what diabetes is, the inability to handle carbs properly.

Diabetes is more the inability to handle fats properly, this in turn causes an impaired sugar
metabolism but, since we're talking about diabetes type 2, is the adipocites fat stored the main
cause and not a lack of insulin becuse of immune beta cells destruction like in diabetes type 1

We're talking inability to handle carbs here, not fats. You seem to still buy into the old wive's
tale about eating fat making you fat. The most recent research is showing some common metabolic
keys, IRS1 and IRS2 for example, which cause increases in visceral adiposity as well as an
intolerance to glucose and hyperlipidemia.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But keep in mind that some fruit is very high in carbs. I don't know what kind of fruit you ate.
Some people find that berries work well for them. But some fruit will raise your BG just like
bread will.

No, there's no fruit with a glycaemic index so high as bread (except dates) and majority of fruits
are low glycaemic index food that are not supposed to raise BG more than other foods Diabetes that
consume much fruits (low GI, i.e. less than 55) do much better that those that avoid fruits, both
for phytochemical properties and improved glucose intolerance due to fructose + fibers

You need to back up this statement about "doing much better". By what criterion ? Fructose has a
lower GI than glucose because it must be converted in the body, and GI measures *glucose*. And that
conversion process is the source of nasty things like aldose, which is implicated in retinopathy,
and finally sorbitol, which is implicated in neuropathy and microvascular damage.

Quoted message said:

Also, as long as you control your weight, caloric intake and resolve the fat problem diabetes is
under control and carbohydrates (we're talking about non refined carbohydrates) are handled
properly even in diabetic individuals

Diabetics handle carbs normally if they control their weight and resolve the "fat problem"? What
planet are you from?

Quoted message said:

That's the reason the last research on diets found that the only diet that seriously lower insulin
is an high unrefined-carbohydrates diet instead of a low carb one that doesn't lower serum insulin
much Diabetic has always done wonderful in the high carbohydrates diets (high fruits, vegetables,
whole cereals, legumes) while refined carbohydrates are the culpright

(One Year Effectiveness of the Atkins, Ornish, Weight Watchers, and Zone Diets in Decreasing Body
Weight and Heart Disease Risk. Abstract
3535)

And if you read the abstract with any semblance of understanding, you will find that Atkins, WW, and
Zone all had about the same results, while Ornish is tap-dancing over the poor results from his
diet. Perhaps Abstract 3535 is from an Ornish propaganda site. The *real* abstract can be found at
medscape.com464193Open ↗ .

It was a study comparing diets for *weight loss* not diabetic control. This was a small study
which, after requiring participants to take some classes, and trying to follow their assigned diet
"as best they could" for two whole months, allowed participants to eat as they wished. It had high
dropout rates. It relied on the Framingham Risk Scores, which have never been proven and were an
attempt 30 years ago to predict risk of a cardiac event (Framingham Heart Study). It is specious in
a diet study.

All this "study" showed is that losing weight is good for you, no matter what diet you use. The rest
is [censored] science.

Your village called. Go home. They miss their idiot.

Jim

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Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: diabetic-talk.orgdiabetic-talk.orgOpen ↗

"Home_sweet_emoH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:gD6yb.15693$f7.754618@localhost...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I decided to try and leave starch foods out of my breakfast and just concentrate on protein,
some fat, fruit and vegetables and on testing found my Bg to be 2 mmol/L lower than when I
have the starch. I have

felt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for a long time that for me anyways, starches are the trigger for

spikes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am on diet alone.

That's what diabetes is, the inability to handle carbs properly.

Diabetes is more the inability to handle fats properly, this in turn causes an impaired sugar
metabolism but, since we're talking about diabetes type 2, is the adipocites fat stored the main
cause and not a lack of insulin becuse of immune beta cells destruction like in diabetes type 1

Uh... What is your reference for that?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But keep in mind that some fruit is very high in carbs. I don't know what kind

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fruit you ate. Some people find that berries work well for them. But

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fruit will raise your BG just like bread will.

No, there's no fruit with a glycaemic index so high as bread (except dates) and majority of fruits
are low glycaemic index food that are not supposed to raise BG more than other foods Diabetes that
consume much fruits (low GI, i.e. less than 55) do much better that those that avoid fruits, both
for phytochemical properties and improved glucose intolerance due to fructose + fibers Also, as
long as you control your weight, caloric intake and resolve the fat problem diabetes is under
control and carbohydrates (we're talking about non refined carbohydrates) are handled properly
even in diabetic individuals

I'm not talking about the GI, and if you'd studied the GI at all you'd know that any time you start
combining foods, the GI changes. To me, the GI is meaningless. Why? I can eat bread. I can eat
potatoes. These things don't cause me problems. And supposedly they would. And I have no clue what
fructose + fibers means. Yes, fruit contains fructose, but it also contains other sugars. I believe
it is most likely the sorbitol in fruit that upsets my stomach.

And you are wrong that a person of normal weight will not have trouble with BG.

Quoted message said:

That's the reason the last research on diets found that the only diet that seriously lower insulin
is an high unrefined-carbohydrates diet instead of a low carb one that doesn't lower serum insulin
much Diabetic has always done wonderful in the high carbohydrates diets (high fruits, vegetables,
whole cereals, legumes) while refined carbohydrates are the culpright

Again, I don't believe you because I don't eat a lot of refined foods, and still I have trouble with
BG. In my case, for the most part, a carb is a carb is a carb when it comes to controlling my BG. I
dislike refined foods for their lack of nutritional value.

Quoted message said:

(One Year Effectiveness of the Atkins, Ornish, Weight Watchers, and Zone Diets in Decreasing Body
Weight and Heart Disease Risk. Abstract
3535)

And where would I be able to see this abstract?

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

"J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Your village called. Go home. They miss their idiot.

Thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. Hehehe!

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:06:52 -0600, "J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Your village called. Go home. They miss their idiot.

Jim

Jim, While we don't agree on an awful lot, we agree on your assesment of that nutcase. Love that
closing line!!

Sleepy

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You can tell those republicans sure do like the poor folks, They just keep helping create more and
more of them!
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