When The Docs Killed Mrs. Hill

Quoted message said:

Subject: When The Docs Killed Mrs. Hill
From: [email hidden]
Date: 1/11/04 6:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

And what about the doc's motto of "First, do no harm."?

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Well...

First do no harm to your reputation. This is "usual and customary care". If all the docs treat a
disease they have diagnosed in the same manner, they are not liable for the failure of the treatment
or the death of their patient.

First do no harm to your practice. Charge the maximum the insurance companies allow and/or anyone on
the hook to pay.

First do no harm to your peers. MDs are not allowed to make mistakes and you cannot admitt to a
mistake nor claim that another doc made a mistake. Termed the "code of silence.".

First do no harm to your specialty. Never degrade or berate your medical education ( brainwashing or
mis-education , whichever applies or both ). Keep your mouth shut.

Just some of the do no harm mottos in use by the docs.

DrC PhD

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

An Unacceptable Loss

Many years ago, my Mom suddenly jumped me & said: "Do you remember Mrs. Hill? Your Sunday
School teacher? She's dead." [Mom likes to deliver bad news, then stand there & snicker cruelly
about it.]

My former Sunday School teacher (one of the few nice people in the church), was dead. Now that was
a major loss for me! [I think I was in my teens (?) at this time, & was still trapped at the farm
with Mom.]

After I asked questions for a while, I learned that Mrs. Hill had gone to the hospital with the
flu, had been given a shot, & the shot had killed her.

Whenever I got the chance, I'd ask why the doctors would give someone a shot, that would kill
them. Nobody knew.

Why didn't the docs give people just a tiny amount of medicine first, to see if they were allergic
to it, ... or test them for allergies before giving shots & medicine? Nobody knew.

Finally, I learned that the doctors have a standard treatment for an illness, such as a certain
antibiotic, ... that most docs won't deviate from that, no matter what, ... & that docs refuse to
take responsibility for bad results, for the deaths they cause.

If the patient is allergic to the treatment, & is permanently injured/disabled or killed by it,
... then it's considered an "acceptable loss" by the docs. It's OK. [Heaven forbid that the
doctors should actually do something logical or practical, when dispensing dangerous drugs.]

While the doctors might have considered Mrs. Hill's death "an acceptable loss", & not cared about
her, ... I did care. And it was Not OK with me, that they killed her.

-----------

What is considered "an acceptable loss" by doctors? Your life? Your child's life? Your mate's?

And what about the doc's motto of "First, do no harm."?

This person was sick enough to be admitted to hospital with the flu, which can be lethal to elderly
Sunday School teachers . She may have already had secondary pneumonia for which antibiotics can be a
life-saving treatment. And we have a third or fourth hand account of what actually happened. Yet the
doctors "killed Mrs Hill"? Come on! Be reasonable.

Peter Moran

[email hidden] wrote in news:9997-4001E041-87@storefull-
3192.bay.webtv.net:

Quoted message said:

An Unacceptable Loss

Many years ago, my Mom suddenly jumped me & said: "Do you remember Mrs. Hill? Your Sunday
School teacher? She's dead." [Mom likes to deliver bad news, then stand there & snicker cruelly
about it.]

The mother is/was a mentally ill person. Since we have now established that fact, the rest of the
story is suspect AFAIC.

r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Good Heavens, is this another one of Sweet Sue's stories? (And her mother jumped her & her church
members weren't nice either).

Maybe your SSchool teacher died from the flu,, period. People do do that you know. Happened to my
grandfather at age 35, even without a "shot". But I'm sure you were at the hospital personally
witnessing the event, though you don't even seem to be absolutely positive you were a teenager(?)
at the time.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After I asked questions for a while, I learned that Mrs. Hill had gone to the hospital with the
flu, had been given a shot, & the shot had killed her.

Is that a fact? Do you know for certain that the shot killed her, or is this just rumor that was
going around after the event?

Quoted message said:

Whenever I got the chance, I'd ask why the doctors would give someone a shot, that would kill
them. Nobody knew.

Why didn't the docs give people just a tiny amount of medicine first, to see if they were allergic
to it, ... or test them for allergies before giving shots & medicine? Nobody knew.

"Are you allergic to any medications?" is one of the first questions asked in the initial assessment
of every patient. We must rely on self-report of allergies, because individual allergy tests are
neither effective nor practical. Also, be aware that in-hospital deaths from allergic reactions are
very rare. Treatment for histamine reactions is quite effective. Almost all allergy death happen in
the field where emergency treatment is unavailable.

Quoted message said:

Finally, I learned that the doctors have a standard treatment for an illness, such as a certain
antibiotic, ... that most docs won't deviate from that, no matter what, ... & that docs refuse to
take responsibility for bad results, for the deaths they cause.

Nonsense. Medical practice is not nearly as cookbook as you imagine. Nor are doctors uncaring and
irresponsible.

Quoted message said:

If the patient is allergic to the treatment, & is permanently injured/disabled or killed by it,
... then it's considered an "acceptable loss" by the docs. It's OK.

No, it's neither acceptable nor "OK" when a patient dies from an allergic reaction. But you must
learn the concept of "risk/benefit" to understand what is going on. If you have a pneumonia that is
95% likely to kill you if you don't get an antibiotic for it, wouldn't you be willing to take the
antibiotic that has a 0.01% chance of causing an allergic reaction that in turn has a 2% chance of
killing you? That is the choice that doctors and their patients make every day. The percentages
change case-by-case, but the principles are the same. So after a doctor saves thousands of lives
with his antibiotic, you want to villianize him as a killer when the roll of the dice comes up wrong
that one time?

Quoted message said:

[Heaven forbid that the doctors should actually do something logical or practical, when dispensing
dangerous drugs.]

Read my last response. Do you consider it more logical and practical to NOT give life-saving
medications?

Quoted message said:

While the doctors might have considered Mrs. Hill's death "an acceptable loss", & not cared about
her, ... I did care. And it was Not OK with me, that they killed her.

They did not kill her. She got a bad case of flu, and the doctors cared enough about her to take
care of her. She died. You do not know the details of how that death happened, only rumors, and on
the basis of only that you are ready to convict her doctors, and by extention, ALL doctors, of
callous murder. Shame on you.

Quoted message said:

-----------

What is considered "an acceptable loss" by doctors? Your life? Your child's life? Your mate's?

And what about the doc's motto of "First, do no harm."?

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

--Rich --> You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

Rich Andrews wrote:

The mother is/was a mentally ill person. Since we have now established that fact, the rest of the
story is suspect AFAIC.

==========

Moral Disorders, Moral Illness

My Mom chose to be morally ill, to have moral disorders (antisocial & narcissistic) & to enjoy them,
... to use them as her drug of choice, her addiction. She'd get "high" from planning to harm people,
& then doing it, over & over.

Many people seem to have varying degrees of this disorder. [For some reason, many people (with
severe moral illness) seem obsessive about attending church, ... and about using this as their proof
of being a good person, a "good Christian". ???]

There's a huge difference between moral disorders & mental illness.

----------

Mrs. Hill

Since Mom wouldn't give me details about Mrs. Hill's death, I had to ask other people over & over,
to learn what happened.

Mrs. Hill was probably in her 40s or 50s, at the time she died.

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

PS Mental Illness?

So far, I don't know much about mental illness.

Most of the people I met at the MHMR here in East Texas, while I was seeking abuse counselling, ...
were in abuse, were very injured or physically ill, ... were morally ill, were violent criminals,
... were zonked-out on psych drugs, and/or always terrified these drugs would be suddenly cut-off (&
they'd experience withdrawal again, alone), ... were alcoholics or street drug addicts (possibly in
some stage of recovery), .. were obsessive/compulsive and/or addicted to something destructive

the highs they got from it, ... or were suffering from stress disorders, due to the failed systems
here (legal, medical, govt), & all the harm this does.

Recently, I met a guy shopping in a grocery store here, who kept getting in my face & saying "Hi"
over & over. Turns out, he's on Prozac. He obviously can't focus, relate, or work while on this
drug. However, I've no way of knowing what he'd be like, if not on the drug, ... & I don't think
he'd be into nutrition, supplements, & exercise as an alternative to medicine. So, I'm looking away.

From: [email hidden]

Good Heavens, is this another one of Sweet Sue's stories? (And her mother jumped her & her church
members weren't nice either).

Maybe your SSchool teacher died from the flu,, period. People do do that you know. Happened to my
grandfather at age 35, even without a "shot".

But I'm sure you were at the hospital personally witnessing the event, though you don't even seem to
be absolutely positive you were a teenager(?) at the time.

==========

Hi kathy,

You seem to be very full of anger (hate & venom), ... the need to dump it on others (those seeking
to learn about altmed, in order to help themselves), ... & the need to label others "liars".

I spent a lot of time answering your questions, hoping for some help in learning about complimentary
& alternative medicine, ... but you don't seem to know anything about that. You keep acting determinedly-
dumb, ugly & abusive.

You seem to be here, to verbally attack people, & to play the same bad & childish games over & over:
"Liar liar, pants on fire." (yawn)

Plus, you've misquoted me. I never said I was at the hospital when Mrs. Hill died, because I wasn't.
And it's probably not unusual, to forget exactly the age you were, when the people you've met &
known, died.

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

PS Sorry to hear about your grandfather dying of the flu, so young.

In a graveyard near here, there are lots of graves of children who died in 1917(?) or so, ... & some
have the cutest stone angels, lambs, & stuff as tombstones.

When I asked what had happened to these children, people said the flu or pneumonia-type stuff had
took them that year.

Back then, I don't think the docs had antibiotics. So, antibiotics were definitely a wonder drug,
once discovered & put into use.

My concern is, that the doctors aren't doing the testing necessary up-front, to see which drugs will
benefit each patient, & which will disable or kill them. Many docs are giving the same standard
treatments to patients, & are choosing not to care about those who sicken & die from the medicines,
not the disease.

I'm hoping for some positive changes.

[email hidden] wrote in news:9998-4002D54D-74@storefull-
3192.bay.webtv.net:

Quoted message said:

Rich Andrews wrote:

The mother is/was a mentally ill person. Since we have now established that fact, the rest of the
story is suspect AFAIC.

==========

Moral Disorders, Moral Illness

My Mom chose to be morally ill, to have moral disorders (antisocial & narcissistic) & to enjoy
them, ... to use them as her drug of choice, her addiction. She'd get "high" from planning to harm
people, & then doing it, over & over.

Many people seem to have varying degrees of this disorder. [For some reason, many people (with
severe moral illness) seem obsessive about attending church, ... and about using this as their
proof of being a good person, a "good Christian". ???]

There's a huge difference between moral disorders & mental illness.

----------

Mrs. Hill

Since Mom wouldn't give me details about Mrs. Hill's death, I had to ask other people over & over,
to learn what happened.

Mrs. Hill was probably in her 40s or 50s, at the time she died.

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

PS Mental Illness?

So far, I don't know much about mental illness.

Most of the people I met at the MHMR here in East Texas, while I was seeking abuse counselling,
... were in abuse, were very injured or physically ill, ... were morally ill, were violent
criminals, ... were zonked-out on psych drugs, and/or always terrified these drugs would be
suddenly cut-off (& they'd experience withdrawal again, alone), ... were alcoholics or street drug
addicts (possibly in some stage of recovery), .. were obsessive/compulsive and/or addicted to
something destructive

Quoted message said:

the highs they got from it, ... or were suffering from stress disorders, due to the failed systems
here (legal, medical, govt), & all the harm this does.

Recently, I met a guy shopping in a grocery store here, who kept getting in my face & saying
"Hi" over & over. Turns out, he's on Prozac. He obviously can't focus, relate, or work while on
this drug. However, I've no way of knowing what he'd be like, if not on the drug, ... & I don't
think he'd be into nutrition, supplements, & exercise as an alternative to medicine. So, I'm
looking away.

Morals have nothing to do with it.

A cruel, abusive person is sick mentally. If you choose to whitewash that fact just as Mom did, then
you are just lying to yourself.

I'll bet she beat animals too. I have never met or heard of a person who was *not* abusive to both
animals and people.

Morals are social issues, her's were behavorial. Anyone that relishes mental, ritualistic
torture is sick.

I am not going to suggest that her children seek counseling or anything like that. It is a
waste of time.

r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

No I have a vey good memory for when things occurred, including year & time of year. And I'd
certainly remember if I was a teenager or not...that's a pretty long time span.

Sue, after making all that noise about that Smokey Mountain Testing Lab. why don't you spend your
tiime more productively & contact them as you said you were going to do. Apparently they only deal
with "alternative practioners" (8,000 of them) & surely you cn hook up with at least ONE of those
8,000 & finally make yourself happy.

[email hidden]

No I have a vey good memory for when things occurred, including year & time of year. And I'd
certainly remember if I was a teenager or not...that's a pretty long time span.

Su_Texas writes;

I have a good memory for some things, but not for dates, months or years. At the farm, one day was
pretty much like another, I had to focus mostly on surviving the abuse, & information was very
limited and/or often wrong.

------------

kathy wrote:

Sue, after making all that noise about that Smokey Mountain Testing Lab. why don't you spend your
tiime more productively & contact them as you said you were going to do. Apparently they only deal
with "alternative practioners" (8,000 of them) & surely you cn hook up with at least ONE of those
8,000 & finally make yourself happy.

Su_Texas writes:

Fighting cancer is not a one-shot deal. The best I can tell so far, you need to approach it from
many angles, & in many ways.

It's a shame that the docs are mostly geered to pushing aromatase inhibitors for breast cancer, &
won't help.

So far, I can't find a doctor who does good blood-work (like gsdl), & who'll take insurance for it.

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

PS I have a dental appt this afternoon, for which I'm already late. Bye.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden]

Good Heavens, is this another one of Sweet Sue's stories? (And her mother jumped her & her church
members weren't nice either).

Maybe your SSchool teacher died from the flu,, period. People do do that you know. Happened to my
grandfather at age 35, even without a "shot".

But I'm sure you were at the hospital personally witnessing the event, though you don't even seem
to be absolutely positive you were a teenager(?) at the time.

==========

Hi kathy,

You seem to be very full of anger (hate & venom), ... the need to dump it on others (those seeking
to learn about altmed, in order to help themselves), ... & the need to label others "liars".

I didn't see the word "liar" in anything you quoted from Kathy, who so far seems to be a pretty even-
tempered sort. You, on the other hand, seem to be quite angry.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)