Aheadset installation question. . .

J'm Sm'th said:

Long time no see. Sorni, JD, Kathleen, etc., hey.

Got a happy new Tange cro-mo rigid fork for Xmas from the LFW. Got a brandy-new aheadset to go
with it, along with a used frame. Here's my question:

Being a relatively handy guy, and used to doing all my own bike maintenance, does the fork
*really* need to be machined prior to installation of the fork race? It looks fairly well machined
already to me.

Bike shop folks, what say ye?

Hey J'm -- ''ve m'ssed you! (Tr'ed to make 't make sense but fa'led.)

Someone posts to the rec. groups as "Jm Smith", but doesn't seem to be same sick---- err, PLEASANT
personality 🙂

As for your question, sure you'll get some qualified answers soon, but I've never heard of machining
a FORK; are you sure you don't mean the headtube? ("Faced" I think they call it; reminds me of my
impure youth.)

I say stick it on, jam it in, and see if it works...(but then again it ain't MY new rig).

Bill "hope you'll hang around a bit more in '04, too" S.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:57:17 GMT

Sorni said:

Hey J'm -- ''ve m'ssed you! (Tr'ed to make 't make sense but fa'led.)

Someone posts to the rec. groups as "Jm Smith", but doesn't seem to be same sick---- err, PLEASANT
personality 🙂

If it's 'J'm Sm'th', it's me. Accept no substitutes.

Quoted message said:

As for your question, sure you'll get some qualified answers soon, but I've never heard of
machining a FORK; are you sure you don't mean the headtube?("Faced" I think they call it; reminds
me of my impure youth.)

Uh yeah, the headtube. It's all one piece, y'know. . .

Quoted message said:

I say stick it on, jam it in, and see if it works...(but then again it ain't MY new rig).

True. Gotta sweet deal on everything, but not sweet enough to trash it. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Bill "hope you'll hang around a bit more in '04, too" S.

We shall see! Depends upon the weather. . .

--
J'm Sm'th

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"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

J'm Sm'th said:

Long time no see. Sorni, JD, Kathleen, etc., hey.

Quoted message said:

As for your question, sure you'll get some qualified answers soon, but I've never heard of
machining a FORK; are you sure you don't mean the headtube? ("Faced" I think they call it; reminds
me of my impure youth.)

I say stick it on, jam it in, and see if it works...(but then again it ain't MY new rig).

Bill "hope you'll hang around a bit more in '04, too" S.

yeah, sounds like a load of old toss to me.forget headset presses and the like, a bit of grease and
then whack it on with a bit of wood and a hammer like my grandmother used to.

cheers

gaz

gazzer said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

J'm Sm'th said:

Long time no see. Sorni, JD, Kathleen, etc., hey.

Quoted message said:

As for your question, sure you'll get some qualified answers soon, but I've never heard of
machining a FORK; are you sure you don't mean the headtube? ("Faced" I think they call it; reminds
me of my impure youth.)

I say stick it on, jam it in, and see if it works...(but then again it ain't MY new rig).

Bill "hope you'll hang around a bit more in '04, too" S.

yeah, sounds like a load of old toss to me.forget headset presses and the like, a bit of grease
and then whack it on with a bit of wood and a hammer like my grandmother used to.

OK for steel frames. Press it in for Aluminum.

[email hidden] (gazzer) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yeah, sounds like a load of old toss to me.forget headset presses and the like, a bit of grease
and then whack it on with a bit of wood and a hammer like my grandmother used to.

Paging Sorni! We gots us a live one here!

LOL!

Let's see if I have this right, J'm:

If the bearing cups are not parallel, then that leads to uneven loading on the headtube, which then
leads to ovalization. Somebody will surely correct me if I am wrong.

The upshot is - since you saved some decent coin on the gear, why not give your LBS a late Christmas
present, and let them face the tube and install the cups? I think I spent a grand total of $25
having it done to my Fango. Of course, you could always buy the facing tool and then press the
headset in via Shaun Rimmer's set-up...
--
Jonesy

J'm Sm'th said:

Long time no see. Sorni, JD, Kathleen, etc., hey.

Got a happy new Tange cro-mo rigid fork for Xmas from the LFW. Got a brandy-new aheadset to go
with it, along with a used frame. Here's my question:

Being a relatively handy guy, and used to doing all my own bike maintenance, does the fork
*really* need to be machined prior to installation of the fork race? It looks fairly well machined
already to me.

Bike shop folks, what say ye?

Hi J'm! Long time no hear from. Good to see you again.

Kathleen

On 30 Dec 2003 08:57:37 -0800

(Jonesy) said:

[email hidden] (gazzer) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yeah, sounds like a load of old toss to me.forget headset presses and the like, a bit of grease
and then whack it on with a bit of wood and a hammer like my grandmother used to.

Paging Sorni! We gots us a live one here!

LOL!

Let's see if I have this right, J'm:

If the bearing cups are not parallel, then that leads to uneven loading on the headtube, which
then leads to ovalization. Somebody will surely correct me if I am wrong.

The upshot is - since you saved some decent coin on the gear, why not give your LBS a late
Christmas present, and let them face the tube and install the cups? I think I spent a grand total
of $25 having it done to my Fango. Of course, you could always buy the facing tool and then press
the headset in via Shaun Rimmer's set-up...
--
Jonesy

I'm not worried about the cups--I have a way to handle that part. The part I'm wondering about is
the installation of the *fork race*.

LBS or no LBS?

--
J'm

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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:02:20 -0600

Kathleen said:

Hi J'm! Long time no hear from. Good to see you again.

Kathleen

Glad to be here. As we say on ham radio, 'you're looking just fine yourself.'

Concentrated on Cliff Cave Park this Summer, which is a spaghetti network on the 'land side', and
beautiful river vistas on the 'river side.'

--
J'm

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..._._

J'm,

Unlike some of these other guys who think you're talking about prepping the headtube before you
install the headset cups, I actually think I know what you are talking about when you ask about
machining the fork before about installing the headset crown race (sometimes known as a base plate).
You see, I just installed a new Tange threadless rigid fork onto an old steel Trek 930 frame this
past summer. When I did this, I found the crown race from the old fork would not install easily onto
the machined "stepped" section at the bottom of the Tange fork steerer tube. Neither would another
old race I had on hand.. When I measured the diameter of the Tange fork in this area, I found it was
significantly larger than any of the other three suspension and rigid forks I had on hand - enough
so that forcing an interference fit would certainly bugger up the race. So I asked the owner of my
favorite LBS about this matter. He informed me that it's pretty common to have to "size" forks from
Japanese manufacturers so that headset races could be installed. He had a tool for doing the job but
the cutters on it were dull. He suggested that I just file the diameter down to fit the race. (He
knows that I'm fairly handy with tools.) So I trimmed mine down using a small, flat needle file. I
used a few wraps of mylar packing tape as a guide to get a consistent, even diameter. It actually
worked pretty well and I've not had any troubles with it so far..

Keith L.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On 30 Dec 2003 08:57:37 -0800 (Jonesy) said:

[email hidden] (gazzer) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yeah, sounds like a load of old toss to me.forget headset presses and the like, a bit of
grease and then whack it on with a bit of wood and a hammer like my grandmother used to.

Paging Sorni! We gots us a live one here!

LOL!

Let's see if I have this right, J'm:

If the bearing cups are not parallel, then that leads to uneven loading on the headtube, which
then leads to ovalization. Somebody will surely correct me if I am wrong.

The upshot is - since you saved some decent coin on the gear, why not give your LBS a late
Christmas present, and let them face the tube and install the cups? I think I spent a grand
total of $25 having it done to my Fango. Of course, you could always buy the facing tool and
then press the headset in via Shaun Rimmer's set-up...
--
Jonesy

I'm not worried about the cups--I have a way to handle that part. The part I'm wondering about is
the installation of the *fork race*.

LBS or no LBS?

--
J'm

To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes ..._._

If you can find a pipe that fits over the steer tube but doens't contact the bearing surface of the
race then use that to tap the race onto the fork, that's basically what the tool the shop has is.
some headsets come with split races which are just spacers to hold a cartridge bearing, these
require no tools to install.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia ramsays-online.comramsays-online.comOpen ↗

"KLydesdale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

J'm,

Unlike some of these other guys who think you're talking about prepping the headtube before
you install the headset cups, I actually think I know what you are talking about when you ask
about machining the fork before about installing the headset crown race (sometimes known as a
base plate).

You may be on to something ...

Quoted message said:

You see, I just installed a new Tange threadless rigid fork onto an old steel Trek 930 frame this
past summer. When I did this, I found the crown race from the old fork would not install easily

<snip>

The standard I.D. for a crown race of a 1 1/8 headset is 30.0 mm. Since the crown race is a press
fit the cutter diameter should be .1 mm or .004" oversized, giving a finished size of 30.1 mm. It
was much more problematic in the "old days," when you could find crown races in sizes ... 26.4,
26.5, 26.7, 27.0, 29.5, 30.0, 33.1 ......

Quoted message said:

So I asked the owner of my favorite LBS about this matter. He informed me that it's pretty common
to have to "size" forks from Japanese manufacturers so that headset races could be installed. He
had a tool for doing the job but the cutters on it were dull. He suggested that I just file the
diameter down to fit the race.

The shop owner left out one important bit of information. A good quality cutter not only mills
the the step to the correct diameter, but also pilots on the steerer and cuts the crown base
perpendicular to the steerer. It seems funny that so many shops make such a big deal about facing
the headtube in order to prevent headset binding and uneven wear, and then will leave out milling
the crown race seat. Why do half the job? ... Or ... If you aren't going to go all the way, why
go at all?

Quoted message said:

(He knows that I'm fairly handy with tools.) So I trimmed mine down using a small, flat needle
file. I used a few wraps of mylar packing tape as a guide to get a consistent, even diameter. It
actually worked pretty well and I've not had any troubles with it so far..

Amazing what can be done with the careful application of hand tools.

R

J'm Sm'th <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I'm not worried about the cups--I have a way to handle that part. The part I'm wondering about is
the installation of the *fork race*.

LBS or no LBS?

Ouch. I misread your post - my apologies.

I have a 1-foot piece of plastic pipe - the white kind (dunno what it's made from - it's a plumbing
type and has no markings remaining) that fits very snugly onto 1.125" steerer tubes. I use it,
plenty of grease, and a rubber mallet (insert Sorni reference here) to set my crown races. Never had
any problem doing it that way. I am ASSuming that the steerer is a standard 1.125" diameter, and not
something strange like KLydesdale has mentioned.

If you have vernier calipers, measure the race opening and the steerer at the crown. The results
should give you the "LBS or no LBS" answer. My apologies again for not reading your post more
carefully.
--
Jonesy

On 31 Dec 2003 09:54:28 -0800

(Jonesy) said:

J'm Sm'th <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I'm not worried about the cups--I have a way to handle that part. The part I'm wondering about
is the installation of the *fork race*.

LBS or no LBS?

Ouch. I misread your post - my apologies.

I have a 1-foot piece of plastic pipe - the white kind (dunno what it's made from - it's a
plumbing type and has no markings remaining) that fits very snugly onto 1.125" steerer tubes. I
use it, plenty of grease, and a rubber mallet (insert Sorni reference here) to set my crown races.
Never had any problem doing it that way. I am ASSuming that the steerer is a standard 1.125"
diameter, and not something strange like KLydesdale has mentioned.

If you have vernier calipers, measure the race opening and the steerer at the crown. The results
should give you the "LBS or no LBS" answer. My apologies again for not reading your post more
carefully.
--
Jonesy

That's alright--no offense taken. Time to get out the calipers!

--
J'm Sm'th

To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes
..._._

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:06:32 -0500

KLydesdale said:

J'm,

Unlike some of these other guys who think you're talking about prepping the headtube before you
install the headset cups, I actually think I know what you are talking about when you ask about
machining the fork before about installing the headset crown race (sometimes known as a base
plate). You see, I just installed a new Tange threadless rigid fork onto an old steel Trek 930
frame this past summer. When I did this, I found the crown race from the old fork would not
install easily onto the machined "stepped" section at the bottom of the Tange fork steerer tube.
Neither would another old race I had on hand.. When I measured the diameter of the Tange fork in
this area, I found it was significantly larger than any of the other three suspension and rigid
forks I had on hand - enough so that forcing an interference fit would certainly bugger up the
race. So I asked the owner of my favorite LBS about this matter. He informed me that it's pretty
common to have to "size" forks from Japanese manufacturers so that headset races could be
installed. He had a tool for doing the job but the cutters on it were dull. He suggested that I
just file the diameter down to fit the race. (He knows that I'm fairly handy with tools.) So I
trimmed mine down using a small, flat needle file. I used a few wraps of mylar packing tape as a
guide to get a consistent, even diameter. It actually worked pretty well and I've not had any
troubles with it so far..

Keith L.

Beauty--that's the kind of info I'm looking for. Thanks!

--
J'm

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On 31 Dec 2003 10:10:11 -0800

(Reco Diver) said:

"KLydesdale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<eLCdnWKiWagMoW-iRVn-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

J'm,

Unlike some of these other guys who think you're talking about prepping the headtube before you
install the headset cups, I actually think I know what you are talking about when you ask about
machining the fork before about installing the headset crown race (sometimes known as a base
plate).

You may be on to something ...

Quoted message said:

You see, I just installed a new Tange threadless rigid fork onto an old steel Trek 930 frame
this past summer. When I did this, I found the crown race from the old fork would not install
easily

<snip>

The standard I.D. for a crown race of a 1 1/8 headset is 30.0 mm. Since the crown race is a press
fit the cutter diameter should be .1 mm or .004" oversized, giving a finished size of 30.1 mm. It
was much more problematic in the "old days," when you could find crown races in sizes ... 26.4,
26.5, 26.7, 27.0, 29.5, 30.0, 33.1 ......

Quoted message said:

So I asked the owner of my favorite LBS about this matter. He informed me that it's pretty
common to have to "size" forks from Japanese manufacturers so that headset races could be
installed. He had a tool for doing the job but the cutters on it were dull. He suggested that I
just file the diameter down to fit the race.

The shop owner left out one important bit of information. A good quality cutter not only mills
the the step to the correct diameter, but also pilots on the steerer and cuts the crown base
perpendicular to the steerer. It seems funny that so many shops make such a big deal about facing
the headtube in order to prevent headset binding and uneven wear, and then will leave out milling
the crown race seat. Why do half the job? ... Or ... If you aren't going to go all the way, why
go at all?

Quoted message said:

(He knows that I'm fairly handy with tools.) So I trimmed mine down using a small, flat needle
file. I used a few wraps of mylar packing tape as a guide to get a consistent, even diameter. It
actually worked pretty well and I've not had any troubles with it so far..

Amazing what can be done with the careful application of hand tools.

R

Thanks, Reco. I think I'll get out the calipers and make my determination based upon what the
measurements bear out. Thanks again.

--
J'm Sm'th

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..._._

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:31:00 GMT

J'm Sm'th said:

Long time no see. Sorni, JD, Kathleen, etc., hey.

Got a happy new Tange cro-mo rigid fork for Xmas from the LFW. Got a brandy-new aheadset to go
with it, along with a used frame. Here's my question:

Being a relatively handy guy, and used to doing all my own bike maintenance, does the fork
*really* need to be machined prior to installation of the fork race? It looks fairly well machined
already to me.

Bike shop folks, what say ye?

Ah, [censored] Camaro.

Thanks to all for the advise and consent!

The fork measured out at 31 mm, the race at 30mm, and it all went together like a champ with a
length of PVC pipe and a hammer. Also the cups went in, in like fashion.

Now to find the appropriate hangers for canti brakes. . .

--
J'm Sm'th

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