Base suggestions...

That sounds more like a long-term plan you've got so you can't expect instantaneous results. Typically, when I get to the meat and bones of a long plan I will start getting more and more tired and essentially slower. That's the training overload. Then, when I pulled back and I recovered I started flying. This was a months long process, though. After a few weeks of base I wouldn't expect to be able to do anything but train more than I would have been able to the month prior.

With that said, what did you do in base that you think should lead to improvements? Did you ride more than typical? Did you ride faster than normal? Did you do any big workouts you don't usually do?

I wouldn't worry about heart rate. HR training is essentially dead if you have power available. There's just too much variability in hr and it takes a practiced hand to know exactly what your hr is telling you. If you have power, train with that and forget the hr. You just don't need it and it sounds like it's more of a hindrance than anything if you're this bothered about hr results.

I wouldn't test at all in base because you're not really doing anything that should improve test results. Do testing after you've done a few weeks of specific workouts. If you're just out toodling around for months at a time (which I would never recommend anyway), then that's probably not going to test very well. What an increased aerobic base will likely/should do, however, is allow you to increase the amount of hard training when it comes time to do that. And then, after that hard training, you should start seeing results.

And lastly, don't dedicate a year to training. If by some miracle you're actually able to mentally sustain motivation, you're still going to be in worse shape than you would be if you were out pushing yourself to the max in races a few times during the year. Choose some races, get out on the road in groups rides, and get some hard, fast work in. You get better by training AND racing, not just by training.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by bassn Any suggestions or advice to help me get started in the right direction will be appreciated.

You should see an improvement in your heart rate after 3 weeks of work. It should show up as a drop in your heart rate at a power level that was at your lactate threshold. Might not show up as easily at lower power outputs.

It helps if you tell us how much time and at what level you are training.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by needmoreair
That sounds more like a long-term plan you've got so you can't expect instantaneous results. Typically, when I get to the meat and bones of a long plan I will start getting more and more tired and essentially slower. That's the training overload. Then, when I pulled back and I recovered I started flying. This was a months long process, though. After a few weeks of base I wouldn't expect to be able to do anything but train more than I would have been able to the month prior.

With that said, what did you do in base that you think should lead to improvements? Did you ride more than typical? Did you ride faster than normal? Did you do any big workouts you don't usually do?

The only thing I did out of the ordinary was to stay aerobic during the entire 3 weeks of base 1, mainly Z1 and 2. Up until this point my typical ride is usually consist of hard pushes throughout the ride, both road and dirt. Absolutely no structure.

I wouldn't worry about heart rate. HR training is essentially dead if you have power available. There's just too much variability in hr and it takes a practiced hand to know exactly what your hr is telling you. If you have power, train with that and forget the hr. You just don't need it and it sounds like it's more of a hindrance than anything if you're this bothered about hr results.

Even though I train with power on the road, my HR is used during my MTB rides. But, maybe on my road rides I'll take your advice and leave the HR strap at home.

I wouldn't test at all in base because you're not really doing anything that should improve test results. Do testing after you've done a few weeks of specific workouts. If you're just out toodling around for months at a time (which I would never recommend anyway), then that's probably not going to test very well. What an increased aerobic base will likely/should do, however, is allow you to increase the amount of hard training when it comes time to do that. And then, after that hard training, you should start seeing results.

And lastly, don't dedicate a year to training. If by some miracle you're actually able to mentally sustain motivation, you're still going to be in worse shape than you would be if you were out pushing yourself to the max in races a few times during the year. Choose some races, get out on the road in groups rides, and get some hard, fast work in. You get better by training AND racing, not just by training.

Great advice. After my base period I plan on doing exactly what you recommend.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by An old Guy

You should see an improvement in your heart rate after 3 weeks of work. It should show up as a drop in your heart rate at a power level that was at your lactate threshold. Might not show up as easily at lower power outputs.

It helps if you tell us how much time and at what level you are training.

This is what I was hoping for, an improvement over the first 3 weeks of base 1.

Since my family and kids consume a big part of my life, as it should, I do most of my riding during the week on a trainer. My most enjoyable indoor setup consist of my Wahoo Kickr and Trainer Road. I just completed this base session from Trainer Road http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/125-traditional-base-high-volume-i. Since I have a half day Friday to myself I've added in an extra ride. Typically a 4 hour ride or so, either dirt or road. I will be starting the High Volume base 2 (Z2 and Z3) next week.

My other option would be to add in a couple more weeks of Z1 and Z2. This is partly the reason why I'm seeking advice, not really sure what should be next. My only direction so far is what I've read and Trainer Road.

At least I have a bearable setup in my garage that makes it a bit more enjoyable to ride the trainers.

[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG]

Just to throw this out there for the future as it sounds like you're already about to change it up a bit, but I don't think you should be doing any Z1. You don't mention how many hours you're training, but I have to imagine that if you're on the trainer for a good chunk of it then you're likely not much over 10.

And with so little time, especially on a trainer, I'd do a lot more Z3+ type work. If you're doing just an hour or so on the trainer, it's much better, in my opinion, to make it count. 1 hour of z1/z2 just isn't much of a stimulus. You're still burning calories and all, but you're really not stressing the body enough to adapt unless you're just an absolute brand new rider. 1 hour with 30-40 mins of z3/z4, though, can rack you up a decent enough workload for a day. Maybe replace 1-2 of your easier rides with those harder rides and you'll probably start seeing more immediate results as well as building up your training in prep. for the long term.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by needmoreair
Just to throw this out there for the future as it sounds like you're already about to change it up a bit, but I don't think you should be doing any Z1. You don't mention how many hours you're training, but I have to imagine that if you're on the trainer for a good chunk of it then you're likely not much over 10.

And with so little time, especially on a trainer, I'd do a lot more Z3+ type work. If you're doing just an hour or so on the trainer, it's much better, in my opinion, to make it count. 1 hour of z1/z2 just isn't much of a stimulus. You're still burning calories and all, but you're really not stressing the body enough to adapt unless you're just an absolute brand new rider. 1 hour with 30-40 mins of z3/z4, though, can rack you up a decent enough workload for a day. Maybe replace 1-2 of your easier rides with those harder rides and you'll probably start seeing more immediate results as well as building up your training in prep. for the long term.

Thanks again NMA for the helpful suggestions and training tips.
Here are my time in power zones for the past 4 weeks. Each week I also put some additional time on the MTB to keep my technical DH skills in check. My typical early morning Saturday ride on the MTB will consist of about 30 miles and 4k of vertical feet. In short, Friday on the road and Saturday morning in the mountains Other than that I'm on the trainer, at least for now 🙁.

Z1 - 1:11, 1:48, 2:01, 1:49
Z2 - 8:09, 7:16, 6:28, 5:33
Z3 - :11, :25, :54, :53

I plan on taking the advice given and start bumping up the Z3 rides during the next few weeks. I'll replace some higher intensity Z3 rides into my Tuesday and Thursday workouts.

My end goal is to drop 15 pounds (currently 175 at 5'9"😉 and raise my FTP to 290 (currently 276). Hoping to do this before my 3rd year of riding, which will be in October of this year.

I would agree with nixing the Z1 work entirely. Only real value IMO is the day after a particularly hard day of L4, 5, or 6 work when the muscles are sore in lieu of a rest day. Not really sufficient for any adaptation unless one has been completely sedentary or has health issues, otherwise it's time lost that could be spent getting fitter.

Nice setup btw but unless there's one tucked away do yourself a favor a get a strong fan in front of that trainer!

Bassn, not to hijack your thread, but I have to ask how do you like the Kickr in comparison to the eMotion rollers. I see you have both.

I use the Emotion rollers through the week, but I have lately considered the Kickr and if it would be worth the purchase. I wasn't as much interested in TrainerRoad, even though I see a lot of users like that combination. I am mainly interested in the Kickr using it in ERG mode.

Since you have both I wanted to ask your thoughts or if you feel like it is helping dial in training at level.