Need help picking out replacement frame

The geometry of the nashbar frame may be a bit different than the trek. I recently purchased a 60cm nashbar integrated carbon alloy frame and it has a comparitively short top tube than my other frames. I ended up getting a 130mm stem to make up for the difference.

The frame uses an integrated headset, its unlikey that the original bike's headset will transfer over. The nashbar frame also uses a 1 1/8 steerer - not sure what the 2001 trek uses, later years do use the same. If the steerer diameter is different, you will need a new fork and stem.

You will also need to check on the seatpost diameters, nashbar uses 27.2 mm.

Most everything else should transfer over.

Doesn't Trek have a lifetime warranty on all but three or four of their frames?

Contact Trek. You may just get a free replacement frame and a discount on the pieces parts necessary to swap over the components that can be salvaged.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB
Doesn't Trek have a lifetime warranty on all but three or four of their frames?

Trek has a limited lifetime warranty on all frames, and a crash replacement program for certain frames, for the original owner. Proof of purchase from an authorized Trek dealer is absolutely necessary. And it's mandatory to go through a dealer on warranty issues before contacting Trek directly.

Those Nashbar frames aren't bad if they aren't damaged in shipping. We built one up for a customer after she returned two of them with dented headset races.

Quote by OBC:
"Trek has a limited lifetime warranty on all frames..."

I had to Google it...

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/support/warranty

Some frames and swingarms not covered and the lifetime thing is stated as applying only to 2011 and newer frames.

What did Trek have as a warranty in 2001? I 'thought' they offered limited lifetime warranty even back then...let me see if I can dig something up...

Found this...© in 2001:

Trek Limited Lifetime Warranty

Trek Bicycle Corporation provides each original retail purchaser of the bicycle a lifetime warranty against defects in materials and workmanship in the bicycle frame and rigid fork when purchased from an authorized Trek dealer. The warranty on the Diesel DH frameset is limited to one year. Trek Bicycle Corporation likewise warrants all original parts on the bicycle, excluding suspension forks and rear shock absorbers, for a period of one year from the date of purchase. Suspension forks and rear shock absorbers shall be covered by the stated warranty of their original manufacturers. Paint and decals are warranted for one year. This warranty is expressly limited to the repair or replacement of a defective frame, fork, or defective part and is the sole remedy of the warranty. This warranty applies only to the original owner and is not transferable. Claims under this warranty must be made through an authorized Trek dealer. Proof of purchase is required.

A warranty registration card must be completed and received by the Trek Bicycle Corporation before a warranty claim may be processed. This warranty covers bicycles and components outside the United States only if purchased through an authorized international Trek distributor or Trek dealer within the country of purchase. The warranty does not cover normal wear and tear, improper assembly or follow-up maintenance, installation of parts or accessories not originally intended or compatible with the bicycle as sold, damage or failure due to accident, misuse or neglect, or modification of the frame, fork or components. Trek Bicycle Corporation shall not be responsible for incidental or consequential damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so the above exclusion may not apply to you. This warranty gives the consumer specific legal rights, and those rights may vary from place to place. This warranty does not affect the statutory rights of the consumer. All photos, illustrations, colors, weights, and specifications contained in this catalog are based on the latest production information at the time of publication. Trek reserves the right to make changes at any time, without notice, in colors, materials, equipment, specifications and models. Any variations in colors shown may be due to the reproductive variations of the printing process. Photos may include non-U.S. equipment. Some models may be shown with optional equipment. Off road bike weights based on medium or 18 inch frame size. Road bike weights based on 56cm frame size. ©2001 Trek Bicycle Corporation. All rights reserved. Trek and the Trek logo are registered trademarks of Trek Bicycle Corporation. Nike and the Nike swoosh are registered trademarks of Nike, Inc. Cycleops is a registered trademark of Graber.

CB, you failed to continue to highlight the next sentence in the Trek warranty, which contains the key exclusion that the warranty doesn't cover normal wear and tear, ie, fatigue damage due to riding the bike too hard or too long. The warranty covers "defects in materials and workmanship" only, meaning the quality of the bike when it's manufactured. I've read a few of the major manufacturers warranties, and they all seem to have similar exclusions.

Cannondale is much more "up front" about their warranty, By including the phrase "manufacturing defects", they make it clear they are talking about the quality of the new bike only. Then, under the limitations section, they clearly state that fatigue damage isn't covered with the following paragraph:

"Damage resulting from normal wear and tear, including the results of fatigue, is not covered. Fatigue damage is a symptom of the frame being worn out through normal use. It is one kind of normal wear and tear, and it is the owner's responsibility to inspect his/her bicycle."

Believe the LBS salesman often convey the notion that the major brands have a true lifetime warranty on their frames, but in reality they do not. The "limited" word means just that, it's limited to defects in manufacturing (materials and workmanship).

"CB, you failed to continue to highlight the next sentence in the Trek warranty, which contains the key exclusion that the warranty doesn't cover normal wear and tear, ie, fatigue damage due to riding the bike too hard or too long."

Trek does NOT cover:
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

• Normal wear and tear
  
• Improper assembly
  
• Improper follow-up maintenance
  
• Installation of components, parts, or accessories not originally intended for or compatible with the bicycle as sold
  
• Damage or failure due to accident, misuse, abuse, or neglect
  
• Labor charges for part replacement or changeover
  

With a lifetime warranty it may be very difficult to ride a product too long. "Lifetime" (of the original owner) implies the product is intended to provide a service life covered until the original purchaser cashes out. If the frame had a 2-year warranty...not so much.

I just had a cracked frame replaced under warranty. Apparently, Wilier did not consider a crack to be normal wear and tear. Neither did Colnago when they replaced a cracked steel frame for me in the 1980's. If my 1974 Paramount cracked, I might have to resurrect Schwinn from the dead to get my lifetime warranty covered.

I guess it all comes down to what 'normal' is. But, I'm pretty sure that if a manufacturer would not warranty a cracked frame because they considered their product failing 'normal'...they wouldn't be selling many more of them.

Agree customer good will is all part of the deal, but legally they aren't obligated. I know a racer who was informed by Trek that his second replacement frame would be his last one from the company; that they don't warranty their frames against fatigue.

Ultralight frames aren't really designed to be raced and ridden hard "forever". Here is a quote from Cannondale's latest Synapse owner's manual, p. 76:

~Nothing Lasts Forever, Including Your Bike When the useful life of your bike or its components is over, continued use is hazardous. Every Cannondale bicycle frame and the components attached to the frame have a finite, limited useful life. The length of that life will vary with the construction and materials used in the frame and components, the maintenance and care the frame and components receive over their life and the type and amount of use the frame and components are subjected.

~Lightweight frames and components usually have shorter lives. For example, all aspects of use being identical, a lightweight Super Six, System Six, CAAD7 or CAAD8 frame will have a shorter life than a heavier CAAD3 frame. In selecting lightweight frames and components you are making a trade-off, favoring the higher performance that comes with light weight over longevity. So, If you choose lightweight, high performance equipment, be sure to inspect it frequently.

As I said, I applaud C'dale for being up front about what they are selling. Believe a lot of LBS would rather have you think they are selling you a bike that is designed and warranted to never wear out.

"Nothing Lasts Forever"

Cannondale has never seen a 1972 Campagnolo Record rear derailleur, obviously!

"...continued use is hazardous."

So is exposure to my attorneys. So...'who' gets to determine exactly when a frame becomes "hazardous"? I have to agree that a heck of a lot of these new frames (and some of the components) are a law suit waiting to happen.

I can hear the judge now..."So, the manufacturer claims his product is intended for high performance and the defendant was ...riding it like he stole it when it asploded? Judgement of $2.4 million dollars with treble damages to the plaintiff!"

Quote by dhk2:
"For example, all aspects of use being identical, a lightweight Super Six, System Six, CAAD7 or CAAD8 frame will have a shorter life than a heavier CAAD3 frame."

True. But all things not being equal, a fred can probably ride the 750 gram climber's special for several decades of mega-miles with no fear of his frame coming unglued, de-laminating, outgassing, UV deterioration or popping apart at the seams. A Cat 2 might also ride that same frame until it's three generations obsolete and retired without failure while the next powerless Joe has his come apart in less than a year...like mine. And mine was no climbing wonder. There is no logic to the failures in most cases as far as I've observed.

There is local Trek dealer that has quite a nice collection of cut-up, cracked Madones in the back room. Cheaper to replace 100 Madones, including rebuilds, than going to court one time. A friend of my is riding a warranty replacement Tarmac. His original Spesh cracked and they comp'ed him upmarket to the Tarmac. Well, his nice Tarmac has a crack at the bottom of the seat stay. It will be interesting to see if Spesh...king of the 'Ill sue!' manufacturers...will comp him another frame.

All we can do is to buy from reputable manufacturers, keep a vigilant eye out and a good lawyer's card in your wallet.

And they've never seen my1974 Raleigh Gran Sport either. Of course, that heavy-weight 531 frame and fork has only around 4-5K miles total, so it's not in much danger except from rust. I'm keeping it all original now and not riding it, as I'm sure it's worth a small fortune as a rare example of british workmanship. Hey, the rust is only "slight", the B17 is "nicely broken in", etc. Plus I've heard the demand for anything equipped with nylon Simplex shift levers and RD is through the roof.

I'm just quoting the C'dale owner's manual on the life of the Super Six el al vs the CAAD 3. Doubt you'll ever hear this statement repeated by salesman though, particularly when a guy of my weight comes in looking at the super-thin $6K special with the 16 spoke wheels. The marketeers have convinced many of us that lighter is better, that somehow the 15 lb bike will be 25% faster than the 20 lb bike because it weights 25% less......suppose that all.makes sense if you don't count the rider.

Agree with your Fred comment also. An old man like me doesn't put too much torque on the frame anymore vs a competitive racer training/racing 10K miles a year. Climbing steep hills is a great way to stress the frame, but I try to avoid those as much as possible now, using the 30/27 low gear on my triple freely (to keep from putting fatigue damage into the frame). I've got 10 years on my custom AL/CF frame, 36K miles, and not sure if I'll ever manage to wear it out.

I'm firmly convinced Ohio's Impending Ice Age© winters, compounded by roads frozen to a hardness exceeding Rockwell 'C' scale readings of 64, are responsible for causing some carbon failures. I 'tried' to pull an old locust fence post this afternoon...no dice! A 17-pound shale bar just bounced off the frozen dirt. They have not invented the 'vertically compliant' road frame to smooth out these roads...

I'm old, fairly light (163) and about as powerful as Vino minus the vampire trips to the Black Sea AND with his last broken femur...and if Wattless Wonder, little ol' me, is cracking frames...I'ma gonna lean towards the "It was built like the Chinese pile o' trash it really is." and go for all the lawyerese in the warranty that my shark can wring out of it.

1974 Raleigh Competition Mk II, here. Black with white pinstripes and all the Campy Gran Sport Carlton could throw at it. Yes, lifetime investments with or without the warranty! Yeah...Brooks butt-buster OEM still on it!

Can you imagine the righteous anger of a newbie investment banker that just plunked down $15K on a fancy electrically shifted Venge and had it crack 6 months into his first road season on a $200 gran fondo outing...and Spesh told him, We don't cover competition applications!"??? Maybe it's just me, but I can visualize Mr. Hedge Fund Manager calling up a dozen of his favorite clients with Esq. as a suffix to their names and going all full tilt jihad on his local bike shop, Spesh, the town of Roubaix, the bike shop formerly called Roubaix, the catalog copy writer, the catalog printer, the people that made the grease in the bottom bracket AND bonded customs warehouse that tran-shipped the thing. The whole, "You may be entitled to certain legal rights not enumerated in this...", comes to mind.

In doing some research on Matt Eaton's 1983 Milk Race winning 'Nashbar' bike (really an Olmo frame with Nashbar decals), I found out it later won a USCF Master's championship and is still being ridden today. Crack a tube? My guess is Olmo would braze in a new one for the cost of shipping. Maybe we should start carrying the card of the carbon frame repair outfit out in California. Hell, it's just fiberglass with carbon instead of glass. They bag their repairs...probably stronger than the original and all we have to do is convince ourselves we really can't feel that extra 50 grams of repair material!

This reminds me of what had been happening to Lyotard 460 pedals. Manufactured in the '60s and '70s, 460s were popular with tourists and cyclocross racers before clip-in MTB pedals became popular. Among collectors and vintage-oriented tourists, though, their popularity continued. A few years ago, however, the vintage bike boards were buzzing over spindle failures. Enthusiast metallurgical engineers examined the broken spindles and determined the cause to be a forging defect that became critical only after years (decades?) of stress. This caused a bit of group consternation over French workmanship.

Lyotard went out of business around the end of the 1980s. At the time I doubt anyone there ever considered that their pedals would be in service 40-50 years after manufacture and 25 years after the demise of the company.

Manufactured stuff gets old and breaks. I imagine Trek gets tired of returning decades-old frames to dealers who were only providing "great customer service" or trying to do a friend a favor.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB

1974 Raleigh Competition Mk II, here. Black with white pinstripes and all the Campy Gran Sport Carlton could throw at it. Yes, lifetime investments with or without the warranty! Yeah...Brooks butt-buster OEM still on it!

Steel frames, if protected from rust and never stressed beyond the rigors of normal riding, do not decompose. To the contrary, I've heard that the brazed joints actually harden through use.

Aluminum fatigues until it breaks. Sometimes without warning.

The failure mode of some aluminum alloys is just plain scary. I've seen aluminum split and crack like steel and I've seen it explode like carbon.

Some brass alloys can be strain/work hardened, but I no idea how a brazed joint on a bicycle frame reacts to the stresses it is under.

All frame materials 'can' fail. And have. Whether from fatigue, exceeding load or manufacturing defect.

The fact of the matter is that at no point in my first 30+ years of cycling have I seen the percentage of frames...from sportive level 1500+ gram frames to 1000 gram and less up-market racing frames...fail in the last 10 years.

Simply, unequivocally...fail.

I put the blame on design errors, poor FEA practices, inconsistent manufacturing practices, schedules and controls, poor quality control processes and testing standards set too low.

I used to doubt the integrity of carbon, and then I saw a video of some coconut slamming a cf frame against the corner of a brick wall and an alu one. To my surprise the cf frame remained untarnished and the Alu one crumpled. I do know that Franco bikes was looking to compete with Spec, Jamis, and C'Dale on the light aluminum frame front but decided for the mix of strength, weight, and stiffness they were looking for it was better for them to stick with CF. Initial reviews of the Alu S-Works had it as stiff as a wet noodle (how much weight would a fricking chain stay bridge add?). And when I was looking at used CAAD10 the number in good condition with minor "dings" was almost comical. We have a top notch CF repair guy in Brooklyn: brooklyncarbon.com/?page_id=93 When aluminum ends up looking like that after a snafu, the only place I'd be sending it is the trash heap. Some stuff breaks so bad it can't be fixed though, and some materials like aluminum just shouldn't be fixed but I'd probably be more comfortable riding a CF bike that had been bashed up in a race and fixed, than one that had failed due to poor design and engineering JRA, and then fixed. As mentioned above though, some frames can take licking from one rider where another would destroy it, maybe not even the stronger of the two. We had a team mate who literally crashed his CAAD9 three consecutive weekends, one time so bad the front Aksium (which I had loaned him for the race) exploded. We cringed when he told us he said he was gonna list the bike for sale in "good" condition... eeek! Good luck to you OP with whatever you pick up.

Quote by Dan:
"...one time so bad the front Aksium (which I had loaned him for the race) exploded."

I hate when that happens.

We had a guy in the 2-3 crit that crashed and trashed a wheel. Went into the pit and came out on a borrowed wheel. A few laps later he totaled his bike on a front straight crash. He went to the sidewalk barricades, in a shredded jersey, bleeding from his two falls, and literally screamed and begged for someone, anyone...to lend him a bike.

While we stood there laughing our asses off at Billy's antics, a guy in the crowd lifted his bike over the barriers for Billy! Billy hopped on the two sizes too large bike and jumped back into the pack when they came around. Dunno if he was clipped in or just pushing, but he made another couple of laps before...wait for it...getting caught up in yet another 'Cat. 2's don't ride any better than 4's!' demo derby.

I can still remember the stunned look on the bike owner's face as Billy handed the bent and trashed bike over the barriers and quickly melted into the crowd...

We didn't stop laughing all the way home!

A moron and his money are soon parted. I'd be laughing too... Oh wait dude, you can borrow my brand new SuperSix. Crits are fun to watch but I prefer the relative safety of road racing for umm purposes of participation. Plus the whole time + laps format thingy easily confuses me. I'm just a simple caveman.

Same here, Dan. I tolerate crits and enjoy myself in most road races.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by danfoz

I used to doubt the integrity of carbon, and then I saw a video of some coconut slamming a cf frame against the corner of a brick wall and an alu one. To my surprise the cf frame remained untarnished and the Alu one crumpled. I do know that Franco bikes was looking to compete with Spec, Jamis, and C'Dale on the light aluminum frame front but decided for the mix of strength, weight, and stiffness they were looking for it was better for them to stick with CF. Initial reviews of the Alu S-Works had it as stiff as a wet noodle (how much weight would a fricking chain stay bridge add?). And when I was looking at used CAAD10 the number in good condition with minor "dings" was almost comical.

I believe it all depends on whose carbon frame you're slamming against the wall, and exactly how you slam it. F'rinstance, the thin walls of top and down tubes are vulnerable to penetrating impacts (curbs, thrown rocks, etc).