Team vs Strada

I've posted extensive reports in the last month on my new Volae team. So have some others. Search
the Yahoo Bacchetta forum, BROL forum and this NG.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "mjbass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking at both the Strada and the Team. I would appreciate any input. I know both are good
bikes and have their plusses and minuses. I would like to hear from Volae owners.

Thanks

MB

--

You DO realize that asking this question is like pouring gasoline on a fire???

I haven't seen such rabid partisanship re. brands since my early days reading this news group, when
rans people were much more vehement about being "the one, true BENT".

I , personally, ride a homebuilt high racer. As I ironed out the details of the bike, I found myself
favoring the details of the Volae. As to how the two designs compare; I'd be surprised if there was
any major difference. IT'S THE MOTOR!!

For the average rider, components are for bragging rights. They don't have a big effect on
performance until you need to accellerate or climb a lot. Even than, put a Lance Armstrong engine on
the cheapest heaviest home built and yourself on an Aero and guess who wins??? That said, the Alex
rims and Carbonfibre forks I have added to my HRC (High Racer Clone) did change the ride favorable,
I think. Of course, having spent the money to upgrade, what was I going to think??? (It's called
"cognitive disonance" in psych. circles. Your beliefs change to support your actions) "mjbass" <usenet-
[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking at both the Strada and the Team. I would appreciate any input. I know both are good
bikes and have their plusses and minuses. I would like to hear from Volae owners.

Thanks

MB

--

I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not see much difference. The Volae
Team gives you more for your money than the Corsa or Aero IF you value the high end components like
Dura Ace, SRAM X, Spartacus Pro ... and can live without the Aero's Titanium. Aero and Volae Team
weight are very close. Volae Team is more adjustable than the Aero, which is set up by the dealer
for one rider, the buyer. Dealers must charge sales tax on the Bacchettas. Hostel shop charges no
sales tax but charges $80 for shipping. I found my Volae's setup effortless.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You DO realize that asking this question is like pouring gasoline on a fire???

I haven't seen such rabid partisanship re. brands since my early days reading this news group,
when rans people were much more vehement about being "the one, true BENT".

I , personally, ride a homebuilt high racer. As I ironed out the details

of

Quoted message said:

the bike, I found myself favoring the details of the Volae. As to how the two designs compare; I'd
be surprised if there was any major difference. IT'S THE MOTOR!!

For the average rider, components are for bragging rights. They don't have

a

Quoted message said:

big effect on performance until you need to accellerate or climb a lot.

Even

Quoted message said:

than, put a Lance Armstrong engine on the cheapest heaviest home built and yourself on an Aero
and guess who wins??? That said, the Alex rims and Carbonfibre forks I have added to my HRC (High
Racer Clone) did change the ride favorable, I think. Of course, having spent the money to
upgrade, what was I going to think??? (It's called "cognitive disonance" in psych. circles. Your
beliefs change

to

Quoted message said:

support your actions) "mjbass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking at both the Strada and the Team. I would appreciate any input. I know both are good
bikes and have their plusses and minuses. I would like to hear from Volae owners.

Thanks

MB

--

Robert,
Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The difference
between the Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks, The
Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa has Ultegra, The Corsa has the
Terracycle tilt ,the best made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to the
Team ,but not by much.
The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to the
Corsa.
The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is
[censored],which I've already changed to shimano.
The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO.
Now since you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax or
buying from mail order and paying shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a LBS
and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the Team worth almost
$850. more than a Corsa?
I say no.
Ben Fox
"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not see

much

Quoted message said:

difference. The Volae Team gives you more for your money than the Corsa

or

Quoted message said:

Aero IF you value the high end components like Dura Ace, SRAM X,

Spartacus

Quoted message said:

Pro ... and can live without the Aero's Titanium. Aero and Volae Team weight are very close. Volae
Team is more adjustable than the Aero, which is set up by the dealer for one rider, the buyer.
Dealers must charge sales tax on the

Bacchettas.

Quoted message said:

Hostel shop charges no sales tax but charges $80 for shipping. I found my Volae's setup
effortless.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You DO realize that asking this question is like pouring gasoline on a fire???

I haven't seen such rabid partisanship re. brands since my early days reading this news group,
when rans people were much more vehement about being "the one, true BENT".

I , personally, ride a homebuilt high racer. As I ironed out the details

of

Quoted message said:

the bike, I found myself favoring the details of the Volae. As to how

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two designs compare; I'd be surprised if there was any major difference. IT'S THE MOTOR!!

For the average rider, components are for bragging rights. They don't

have

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

big effect on performance until you need to accellerate or climb a lot.

Even

Quoted message said:

than, put a Lance Armstrong engine on the cheapest heaviest home built

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yourself on an Aero and guess who wins??? That said, the Alex rims and Carbonfibre forks I have
added to my HRC (High Racer Clone) did change

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride favorable, I think. Of course, having spent the money to upgrade, what was I going to

think???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(It's called "cognitive disonance" in psych. circles. Your beliefs

change

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

support your actions) "mjbass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking at both the Strada and the Team. I would appreciate any input. I know both are
good bikes and have their plusses and minuses.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would like to hear from Volae owners.

Thanks

MB

--

"Ben Fox" skrev...

Quoted message said:

The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to the Corsa.

Whats the advantage of FSA? Think I checked them out once and they were heavier than the Dura-ace.

Mikael

Ben, I respect your opinion. Perhaps we're both splitting hairs and
describing our personal choices on the components. For instance, I like the
VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars. Personal choice. What I said at the
beginning of my post sums up my view:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not see much difference.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert, Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The difference between the Volae
Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

The

Quoted message said:

Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa has Ultegra, The Corsa has the Terracycle tilt ,the best
made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to the Team ,but not by much. The Corsa has the FSA carbon
crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to

the

Quoted message said:

Corsa. The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is [censored],which I've
already changed to shimano. The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO. Now since
you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax or buying from mail order and paying
shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a LBS and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the
Team worth almost $850. more than a Corsa? I say no. Ben Fox

Not sure what the triple dura-ace weight is but the double is about 600
grams and the FSA triple is 660 grams.
I guess it comes down to personal preference ,but the FSA definately costs
more than the Dura-ace so I would say it is a higher spec component .
Ben fox
"Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ben Fox" skrev...

Quoted message said:

The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Corsa.

Whats the advantage of FSA? Think I checked them out once and they were heavier than the Dura-ace.

Mikael

I suspect Rolf Garthus does, also. He told me he is looking at FSA. Watch the evolution of Volae ...
it has the potential to be a major success, IMHO.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure what the triple dura-ace weight is but the double is about 600 grams and the FSA triple
is 660 grams. I guess it comes down to personal preference ,but the FSA definately costs more than
the Dura-ace so I would say it is a higher spec component . Ben fox "Mikael Seierup"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ben Fox" skrev...

Quoted message said:

The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that

to

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Corsa.

Whats the advantage of FSA? Think I checked them out once and they were heavier than the
Dura-ace.

Mikael

Robert,
Since I own a Corsa and you a Team,I thought I would give my thoughts on the
two bikes. I agree they are very much alike ,after all Rolf came up with his
idea after he started selling the Bacchettas.
I would have bought a team or the next one down ,can't think of the name
right now,if he had them in stock and would have come down a little in
price.
I'll bet ,given two riders of equal ability,one on your bike and the other
on mine,there would be no difference in speed.the only difference would be
that my bike cost a lot less than yours and the yellow is awful" purty".
Ben fox
"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ben, I respect your opinion. Perhaps we're both splitting hairs and describing our personal
choices on the components. For instance, I like

the

Quoted message said:

VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars. Personal choice. What I said at the beginning of my post sums up
my view:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not

see

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much difference.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert, Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The difference between the
Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

The

Quoted message said:

Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa has Ultegra, The Corsa has the Terracycle tilt ,the
best made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to the Team ,but not by much. The Corsa has the FSA
carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to

the

Quoted message said:

Corsa. The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is [censored],which I've
already changed to shimano. The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO. Now
since you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

buying from mail order and paying shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a

LBS

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the Team worth almost $850. more than a
Corsa? I say no. Ben Fox

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert Siegel
[B]... For instance, I like the
VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars. Personal choice....

Bob,

I have not seen a Volae close up and wonder about the three piece handlebar. Not the riser, just the handlebar. What do you think the benefit of this type of design? Other than the Saber the Volae is the only other bike I have seen with this type of handlebar.

Thanks,

Mike

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The difference between the Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

Corsa has M5 fiberglass seat, half pound heavier than the carbon seat. Team has a significantly
lighter all carbon Alpha Q fork

IMHO the way to go is buy a used Strada and then upgrade components.

The way to go may be to buy a bare Volae frameset (no fork) and build it up with last year's model
parts from PricePoint.com However, the quality of parts on a stock Team is very high.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "BarryG" <barrygross at access4less.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The difference between the Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

Corsa has M5 fiberglass seat, half pound heavier than the carbon seat.

Team

Quoted message said:

has a significantly lighter all carbon Alpha Q fork

IMHO the way to go is buy a used Strada and then upgrade components.

I always associated the Volae club to go head to head with the Corsa, and Team to go against the
Aero. I like the looks of the Club, especially that Brass color over them all.

Ben Fox said:

Robert, Since I own a Corsa and you a Team,I thought I would give my thoughts on the two bikes. I
agree they are very much alike ,after all Rolf came up with his idea after he started selling the
Bacchettas. I would have bought a team or the next one down ,can't think of the name right now,if
he had them in stock and would have come down a little in price. I'll bet ,given two riders of
equal ability,one on your bike and the other on mine,there would be no difference in speed.the
only difference would be that my bike cost a lot less than yours and the yellow is awful" purty".
Ben fox "Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eDmIb.565028$0v4.22833607@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Ben, I respect your opinion. Perhaps we're both splitting hairs and describing our personal
choices on the components. For instance, I like

the

Quoted message said:

VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars. Personal choice. What I said at the beginning of my post sums up
my view:

Quoted message said:

>I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not

see

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>much difference.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert, Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The difference between the
Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

The

Quoted message said:

Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa has Ultegra, The Corsa has the Terracycle tilt ,the best
made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to the Team ,but not by much. The Corsa has the FSA
carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to

the

Quoted message said:

Corsa. The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is [censored],which I've
already changed to shimano. The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO. Now since
you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

buying from mail order and paying shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a

LBS

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the Team worth almost $850. more than a Corsa?
I say no. Ben Fox

I think Hostel Shoppe will paint a Team any stock Volae color. I don't know if there's a charge.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "bentbiker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I always associated the Volae club to go head to head with the Corsa, and Team to go against the
Aero. I like the looks of the Club, especially that Brass color over them all.

Ben Fox said:

Robert, Since I own a Corsa and you a Team,I thought I would give my thoughts on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two bikes. I agree they are very much alike ,after all Rolf came up with

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

idea after he started selling the Bacchettas. I would have bought a team or the next one down
,can't think of the name right now,if he had them in stock and would have come down a little in
price. I'll bet ,given two riders of equal ability,one on your bike and the

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on mine,there would be no difference in speed.the only difference would

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that my bike cost a lot less than yours and the yellow is awful" purty". Ben fox "Robert Siegel"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eDmIb.565028$0v4.22833607@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Ben, I respect your opinion. Perhaps we're both splitting hairs and describing our personal
choices on the components. For instance, I like

the

Quoted message said:

VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars. Personal choice. What I said at the beginning of my post sums
up my view:

>>I own a Volae Team and twice test-rode a Corsa and Aero. I did not

see

Quoted message said:

>>much difference.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

"Ben Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

>Robert, Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The

difference

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>between the Volae Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks,

The

>Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa has Ultegra, The Corsa has the Terracycle tilt ,the
>best made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Team ,but not by much. The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

>Corsa. The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is [censored],which I've
>already changed to shimano. The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO. Now
>since you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax

or

Quoted message said:

>buying from mail order and paying shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a

LBS

Quoted message said:

>and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the Team worth

almost

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>$850. more than a Corsa? I say no. Ben Fox

Robert Siegel said:

I've posted extensive reports in the last month on my new Volae team. So have some others. Search
the Yahoo Bacchetta forum, BROL forum and this NG.

Recent events in Hays, Kansas require renaming this thread. 🙂 <
ransbikes.comITRForce5.htmOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

What 3-piece handlebar? Mine appears to be one piece. Has a conventional stem and riser.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "mjbass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by Robert Siegel ... For instance, I like the VolaeTeam's riser and handlebars.
Personal choice....

Bob,

I have not seen a Volae close up and wonder about the three piece handlebar. Not the riser, just
the handlebar. What do you think the benefit of this type of design? Other than the Saber the
Volae is the only other bike I have seen with this type of handlebar.

Thanks,

Mike

--

Just looking at a picture of the new RANS 650-650, it might be a closer relative of the Vision Sabre
than the Bacchetta/Volae. The seat is quasi-conventional with a relatively upright seating position.
My first twin-650 test rides, all on the same day about a year ago, were on the R-64, Corsa and
Aero. At the time I preferred the Sabre, mainly because I found it easier to ride uphill and to
start from a dead stop. However, after riding my Volae for a few days I quickly appreciated the
benefits of the laid back Velo carbon seat, which, for me are comfort and aerodynamics. Again, YMMV.
Personal choice reigns.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Robert Siegel said:

I've posted extensive reports in the last month on my new Volae team.

So

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have some others. Search the Yahoo Bacchetta forum, BROL forum and this

NG.

Quoted message said:

Recent events in Hays, Kansas require renaming this thread. 🙂 <
ransbikes.comITRForce5.htmOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Quoted message said:

www.ransbikes.com/ITRForce5.htm

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Interesting that this will be available in March as RANS
didn't make any mention of it at Interbike. I guess they are feeling the hurt in decreased V-Rex
sales due to the popularity of Bacchetta and other newer designs. Just as when I first learned of
Volae, I think it is good to see competition in the big wheeled SWB (highracer) market. The more
competition the more refinement there will be overall and perhaps lower prices and better values.

When I looked at the photos of the Force 5 on the above link my first thought was "oh no, Randy
just couldn't resist adding triangulation and spoiling the clean lines of what would have been a
stick frame and all that tubing hanging down below the top tube looks like it would add frontal
area". My next thought was "yuck, they are using the Zephyr seat". I tried one of these Zephyr
seats on a V2 Formula at the Interbike outdoor demo day and was not impressed. It is very light
weight for a mesh seat but that is the only advantage I could find. The seat back is narrower than
a conventional RANS or Bacchetta mesh seat back and because of this I could feel the hard seat back
rails digging into my back. To me one of the big advantages of a hard shell seat is that it can be
made narrower so it won't create additional frontal area any wider than the rider's torso. When the
seat back tubes of a mesh seat are moved closer together on a mesh seat the seat is no longer wider
than the rider's torso so now the tubes can make direct contact with the rider's back. The other
problem I noticed with the Zephyr seat on the V2 Formula was the seat base pad was very thin and
hard. This caused the beginnings of recumbent butt after a 15 minute ride. With the more laid back
seat positon of the Force 5 this may not be an issue as a greater percentage of the rider's weight
will be on their back rather than their working muscles but that might also make the seat tubes
digging into the back issue more pronounced. Randy did tell me I was the only one who rode the V2
Formula seat who didn't like it. I'm reasonably confident I was also the thinnest rider to have
tried it that day so my lack of natural padding may have exasperated the issue, however it may
still be an issue for heavier riders on long rides. I wonder what the longest ride someone has done
in the Zephyr seat is. I know I've found the regular RANS seat and M5 seat very comfortable on
rides of up to double century length.

Below is what Randy wrote about the Force 5 with my inline comments added:

Quoted message said:

INTO THE RIDE article #13

A NEW RANS SHORT WHEELBASE By Randy Schlitter

In the last two installments the topics were racing, organizing a new group and finally the
hardware. As you might have guessed the third article is adding another choice to that hardware.

The Force 5 is a new dual 650c wheeled short wheel based recumbent due out this March. The bike
will be produced at our Hays Kansas plant, so the supply line will start out at a few per week,
increasing, as demand requires. There will be two versions the Force 5 XP at $2,195 and the Force
5 LE at $1,595. Each will feature the same frame in two sizes and colors, Silver Bronze as shown,
and Rush Red. In either form you will find this bike light, fast, user friendly, great handling,
and top quality. The goal was to create a dual 650c wheeled bike, similar to the Rocket, apart
enough from the V-Rex that would be light, equipped with road bike components, and have cruising
speeds at or above the V2 Formula.

That seems like a good goal and I'm glad to see the Force 5 is being produced in the US. The prices
seem very reasonable, especially considering the complexity of the frame and the fact the frame is
built in the US rather than Taiwan. The Force 5 LE is $255 less than a Bacchetta Strada. I wonder
how the components will compare. I've had customers who like the concept of a big wheeled SWB but
can't afford a Strada so this will provide a less expensive alternative.

Quoted message said:

Our new Zephyr Seat will be featured on the XP version and the stock RANS seat

See comments above about the Zephyr seat. Good to see the LE model will be using the stock RANS seat
instead. It would be nice to have a composite shell seat option for those like myself who prefer
shell seats.

Quoted message said:

on the LE.  The seat height at 23" to the top of the cushion at mid rail point on the XL version.
The seat is 22.5 high on the The boom extends a pinch more forward and up to clear the front wheel
with less overlap. Sizing of the frame is on par with out current standards, meaning a four-inch
shorter wheelbase will be offered for the standard size model. Another advantage of US production
is we can offer two sizes of the Force 5 without increased cost.

I'd take the XL version. I'm glad to see RANS won't be charging extra for the XL size. Charging $50
extra on their current steel frame bikes and $100 extra on the V2 Formula is discrimination against
taller riders.

Quoted message said:

Comparing the Force 5 to other bikes like Vole and Bacchetta the most striking difference is we
have a trussed frame. I am not turned on by "stick" frames simply because they offer little
advantage other than they are cheaper to produce. Such frames suffer from having no depth of
structure. This means heavy thick wall tubes if they want to avoid future frame cracking
problems.

On the one hand it is nice to see Randy's honesty here. On the other hand it is generally considered
poor form to directly mention a name of a competitor and imply their frames may have future cracking
problems. I believe Volae uses the same 2" x 0.035" wall thickness tube that was used on the
Visions. I'm not sure what the wall thickness of the teardrop Bacchetta tube is but suspect it is
thicker. I do think if going ultralight on a monotube frame titanium is the way to go as the tubing
doesn't have to be so thin wall and a thicker walled titanium tube will still be lighter than a thin
walled steel tube of the same diameter. I'm not aware of any frame failures on the bikes using 2" x
0.035" monotubes but have heard of some on bikes with
1.75" x 0.035" monotubes.

Anyways besides being cheaper to produce I find stick frames more visually attractive because I like
simple clean lines. The Force 5 does not strike me as a beautiful frame though I do think it looks
better than a V-Rex and looks good for a triangulated frame.

Quoted message said:

Another property of the "stick frames" is they flex more which equals a loss in power
transmission. Even the curved stays will flex some since a curved tube acts like a spring under
load. The Force 5 has straight seat and chain stays, this makes for a light bike with good power
transfer.

For me one of the selling features of a monotube stick frame like the Bacchetta is that it has
some vertical compliance giving a smoother, more comfortable ride. Maybe a strong, heavy rider
wants the frame to be as stiff as possible but I much prefer to have some flex in the vertical
direction to absorb shock and give better road holding on rough roads as the wheels are less
likely to hop and skitter.

Quoted message said:

In the case of the Force 5 a lot of thought was put into each frame tube to get maximum
performance with as little weight as possible. We sculpted more than half the tubes to
accommodating shapes. The seat and chain stays are ovals for better load transfer and chain
clearance. And perhaps what will become a signature aspect is the Y chain stay. It blends from a
single tube that is also shaped from round to oval intersecting with the two oval chain stays that
shoot straight back to the dropouts.

I can see a lot of thought was put into each frame tube and it looks very nicely done for this type
of a frame. It does seem some aspects of the rear end design of the Force 5 could be transfered to
other RANS models.

Quoted message said:

The drop outs happen to be our traditional design that works perfectly with the oval tube, and
create just enough chain clearance at the cluster, again offering the most direct load path and
least weight.

Nice.

Quoted message said:

We chose a double idler system again for performance reasons. The single idler like used on the
Bacchetta requires more chain (more weight), plus creates more friction and noise. The top idler
is placed to deflect the drive chain from a straight line the least amount possible and still have
clearance. Each idler is supported on a massive 8mm bolt and is free to slide side ways 15mm. This
8mm bolt mounts into the frame using bushings buried into the tubes, providing a very rigid mount.

I don't see how having a double rather than single idler system would decrease drivetrain friction
and noise as compared to the single idler system Bacchetta uses. The amount of chain saved by having
a two idler rather than a one idler system must be minimal. How many links of chain are saved? I'd
think the extra weight of the second idler, second idler mounting bolt and second idler frame braze-
on would more than offset the slight savings in chain weight. It would be nice to see a larger
diameter drive side idler for greater efficiency and reduced wear rates.

Quoted message said:

Shown is our 47" wheel base version, with an X-seam of 39" to 49". This bike is a light 28.5 lbs.
WITH the stock seat and 25.15 lbs. with our new Zephyr seat. The 43" wheelbase is actually my size
and handles even sweeter and is lighter yet. The x-seam range on this bike is 35" to 45".

Good, same wheelbase as a Bacchetta on the XL frame. If the weights are accurate they are really
good as I found the following weights for the steel frame Bacchetta large wheel bikes without
pedals: 2002 Strada, medium: 13.35 kg (29 lbs. 8 oz.) 2003 Strada, medium: 13.5 kg (29 lbs. 12 oz.)
2003 Strada, large: 13.55 kg (29 lbs. 14 oz.) 2002 Strada, large with M5 carbon seat: 12.4 kg (27
lbs. 6 oz.) 2003 Corsa, medium: 12.25 kg (27 lbs.)

Quoted message said:

Dual pivot calipers provide front and rear braking. The frame is designed to handle many brands of
dual pivot caliper but the Shimano 105's will be stock on the Force 5 XP version with a lower cost
brake set on the LE. A special converter is used that allows the brake cable to enter from below
the brake. The converter brings the cable up the center as per original design of the brake.

This special converter to allow the brake cable to enter below the brake might be a breakthrough. I
wonder if this converter would allow me to run a high end road bike brake on the front of my Aero.
It looks like the lower return chain due to the Aero only having one idler further back might still
create some interference with the to of a conventional road brake.

Quoted message said:

The handle-bars are the B-37 with a shorter riser sans the cable stops. There is no flip-it, nor
do we feel it required. The bar placement seems to be well within reach of most riders. Fore and
aft distance can be altered with other bars, tilt, or turning around the riser. There is plenty of
up and down travel. The ideal setting is just above the knees, and with moderate seat tilt the bar
is well below the sight line.

Nice, glad to see the riser is going from having cable stops with that short run of water catching
bare cable to continuous housings like Bacchetta.

Quoted message said:

On my test rides of the Force 5, I was able to capture a long quested goal, the acceleration of a
light road bike. I expected the bike to be less friendly in the mount and go department, but it
was not as bad as expected. The solid feeling bars may have a lot to do with it. I notice I use
them to help throw my feet to the pedals. So in a flash you can be up and running. At first the
high BB is novel but after awhile it becomes no biggie and is a good trade for the steady handling
the dual 650c wheels provide. Like a road bike it has very

I agree about all this based on my experience with the Aero.

Quoted message said:

little need to steer. In fact I have pounded up and down hill, swooped through curves, never
touching the bars. Dare say steering is optional! For fun I will take my hand and feet off and
hold my arms high overhead, dangling my legs off the pedals, steering with "butt swings". Of
course you need to understand this is only for testing purposes and don't try this at home!
Also we are not quite sure just what we are testing with this move. Maybe the "spread eagle
geek move? "

Funny, I'd like to see Randy performing this testing!

Quoted message said:

Speed was a big part of the goal on the Force 5, and it will prove it out once in the hands of a
few good engines. From the slow roll to the top end this bike has a friendly nature. From our
testing group none had much trouble jumping on and riding, even the very new to recumbents found
the bike natural in the handling.

Sounds like it has good geometry.

Quoted message said:

As one would suspect the road will come through a bit harsh on this bike, but it is of a quality I
cannot place, similar to the suspension of a BMW, stiff, in control, but certainly acceptable.
Some will want to opt out for the thicker cushion no doubt, which will insulate the road vibes,
but it may pay to try the intended cushion since it does hug the ground equipped as such.

Well I prefer the feel of a BMW to an American car with overly soft suspension but I think
you'll find the ride in a BMW much smoother than any non-suspended recumbent. If you want BMW
feel in a bike ride an HP Velotechnik Speedmachine, smooth and well controlled and still has
good feel of the road.

To me the Aero is borderline too harsh. It sounds like I'd find the ride of the Force 5 with its
triangulated frame too harsh at least with the Zephyr seat and thin pad. The roads around here are
very rough and we have rough high speed descents which probably don't exist in Kansas.

Quoted message said:

Production is underway and bikes should be hitting the stores mid Feb to middle March. It is made
in USA, and priced to excite. With the frame being identical between the XP and LE, you could
enjoy the essence of this fine bike at a very reasonable price and up-scale components, seat and
such later. There are no short-comings in quality or specs (soon to appear on this site). The
Force 5 will soon be a new force to reckon with in the line up of new breed of racing recumbents.
Now if we can just get some force behind staging these races!

I look forward to seeing the specifications and will probably order a size XL LE version to try it
out first hand and be able to offer a lower priced big wheeled SWB alternative to the Strada.

It looks like the frame has clearance for much wider tyres. How about doing a 559mm wheeled version
with wider tyres and disc brakes? This could be a rough stuff capable SWB replacement for the Vivo.

--------------------------------------------
Zach Kaplan Cycles Alameda, Northern California, North America 510-522-BENT (2368) zakaplan at
earthlink dot net

Ben, I have a brand spanking new Team (Merry Christmas to me) and it came with an FSA carbon crank
set. That is also the crank set specced for the Team on their web site, but not in their catalog.

The bars are somewhat strange looking but I like the feel.

Also, I can ride my medium Team with no problems what so ever. However, I tried to ride a Strada
last spring at BikeTek in Springfield and a Corsa at the Bike Rack in St. Charles and either the
shops couldn't properly adjust them to my size or I'm just Bacchetta challenged. Regardless, I
couldn't even get started on either one and no amount of coaching by either shop seemed to help. I
took to my Team immediately and had no trouble starting stopping, turning, etc. BTW, I'm 5'7" with a
40.5" x-seam.

Lastly, I agree with you on price and had I been able to get comfortable on a Corsa, I would have
already owned one. The price does appear to be non-negotiable on a Team.

-Dennis in Groveland, IL

Ben Fox said:

Robert, Normally I agree with most of what you say,but here goes; The difference between the Volae
Team and the Corsa, Both have carbon seats and forks, The Volae has Dura-ace components, the Corsa
has Ultegra, The Corsa has the Terracycle tilt ,the best made IMO,I would give the nod on wheels to
the Team ,but not by much. The Corsa has the FSA carbon crank ,the Team has Dura-ace,I give that to
the Corsa. The brakes would go to the team since the front brake on the Corsa is [censored],which I've
already changed to shimano. The handlebars on the Team are kind of strange looking IMO. Now since
you were comparing buying from a dealer and paying sales tax or buying from mail order and paying
shipping, ,I bought my corsa from a LBS and paid $2150. Rolf wanted $2995.for the Team. Is the Team
worth almost $850. more than a Corsa? I say no. Ben Fox