New Tires?

There's a lot of questions rolled in there, but breaking it down a bit:

- Tires do flat, it's part of riding a bike. Unless you pumped your tires all the way to the limit marked on the sidewall of the tires (which is a limit and not a typical recommendation) AND it was very hot like the bike was in the back of a car in the sun with the windows rolled up or you were braking hard down a long descent and heating the rims, it's unlikely you blew out due to too much pressure. More likely you pinch flatted on a bump in the pavement or pothole or the tube was pinched during installation which happens if you're not careful.

- Sure if the hole in the tube isn't huge (which unfortunately they can be with a full blowout) then you can patch it and ride it for hundreds of miles or more. The self adhesive patches work surprisingly well and you don't have to worry about the little tube of glue drying out. You do need to rough up the tube a bit with the supplied sand paper and make sure the tube is clean and dry before applying the patch but for typical punctures patches work fine.

- Sure you can go with something like Gatorskins and they are a very durable tire. If you live somewhere with a lot of road debris or the dreaded goathead thorns then puncture resistant tires can be a very good investment particularly for a newer rider that might need some practice tuning into things like shiny glass shards and other things that are best to avoid.

- But for many folks a full puncture resistant tire isn't really necessary. If your roads or paths are relatively clean then there are a lot of less expensive and perhaps faster tires you can run. Search for threads like 'training tire recommendations' and you'll get lots of hits and lots of opinions. But there are more choices than just the Gatorkskins and even though they're tough, Gatorskins are definitely not the smoothest or fastest every day tires out there.

- Some folks have had bad experiences with certain tubes but in general I think that's more related to production batch problems than brands. Most inner tubes are decent quality but every once in a while you get one with a bad valve seal or bad seam that fails prematurely but it's surprisingly rare.

Lot's of options, no one size fits all solution but flats do happen if you ride enough. Frankly from what you describe I'd guess there was a bit of your inner tube trapped under the tire bead during installation that finally burst or perhaps your pressure was low and you bottomed out on a bump, pinch flatting the tire. Hard to say without seeing the puncture but tubes rarely explode and when they do it's usually some form of pinch flat or something like exposed spoke heads poking through the rim strip causing a sudden puncture.

Good luck,
-Dave

Even your cheap Kendas are capable of rolling a couple thousand miles, given reasonable care not to abuse them on potholes, curb jumping, etc. A new tube, properly installed after inspecting the tire for carcass damage and inside of your tire for debris possibly poking thru (spoke heads too), will have you rolling again. Simply patching the tube will work fine and done correctly it will hold air as well as a new tube.

Take care not to pinch the tube when installing.

As a road rookie, I would advise you to wear out the OEM rubber and shop Wiggle, Pro Bike Kit, Ribble, etc. for better tires.

Here is my exp fwiw. I bought my first road bike in April 2012. The Bontrager tires that came with the bike were pretty crappy (looking back now that I am smarter) and I had a flat within two weeks. I bought a set of Gatorskins and I have not had a single flat in 2,500 miles. Admittedly I wouldn't mind a faster tire, but I am not really sure how much difference a tire is going to make for me and my 18-19mph pace. I am thinking for any real improved performance I would need to upgrade the wheels as well. I hate flat tires more than I desire going fractionally faster, but I want to keep an open mind when I decide its time to replace the gatorskins. If anyone has a durable and reasonably priced wheel / tire combination they could recommend I am all ears. If it matters at all I ride a 2012 Trek 2.1 Apex and I ride 23c tires. I average about 110 miles a week.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by mark174ace [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

...Admittedly I wouldn't mind a faster tire, but I am not really sure how much difference a tire is going to make for me and my 18-19mph pace. I am thinking for any real improved performance I would need to upgrade the wheels as well....

In general upgrading from a tire like the Gatorskins to something faster will have a more immediate and noticeable impact on both speed and riding comfort than upgrading your wheelset. Rolling resistance is noticeable at all speeds and all terrain and the Gatorskins roll very slow for a road wheel. But yes, flat protection is nice if you're really uncomfortable changing flats.

In terms of decent tires, the list is long but something like a mid priced Michelin or Continental, Vittoria or Maxxis or many other brands would be a big step up in the speed and comfort departments relative to the Gatorskins you're currently running. Even running tires like the Michelin Pro Race 2s, 3s or 4s or Continental GP4000s or even the uber light Vittoria Corsa CX (not really a day to day tire but very fast) I still only have a couple of flats per season.

But the lighter and faster you go with tires and tubes the more comfortable you should be with road side flat changes. They shouldn't happen all that often even with light racing tires but the lighter tires will be more flat prone so don't go that route unless changing a flat is no big deal. Practice at home with perfectly good tires and tubes several times until you figure out how to do it smoothly without pinching the tube during installation.

I'd suggest trying a mid range tire like a Vittoria Rubino Pro slick, Michelin Lithion, Continental Super Sport, Maxxis Detonator or something along those lines as a bit lighter and faster tire that's still reasonably priced and not a pure race tire. If you want to step it up another notch and don't mind the occasional flat then something like the Continental GP4000s or Michelin Pro Race 3 or 4 or a Schwalbe Ultremo or Maxxis Hors Catorie are all very fast but not super durable tires yet I'd still ride any of them day to day unless I was doing a lot of heavy urban commuting on bad roads with junk in the bike lanes or living someplace with a lot of roadside junk or lot's of goathead thorns to deal with.

And sure you could always upgrade wheels at some point but in general that will have much less direct benefit on riding comfort or speed unless you move to deep aero rims and that's a big investment and not really all that sensible unless you're really chasing speed and want to race. A good locally built custom wheelset is a really nice investment but that's more about having good well built and durable components on your bike that you can trust and less about direct comfort or speed advantages. Still it's always nice to get new wheels and starting around four or five hundred dollars you could have a local wheelbuilder put together a very nice set built on maybe some Kinlin or Velocity rims that give you some aero advantage and are tailored for your weight and riding style. If you want to get into really deep and aero carbon racing wheels you're talking a thousand to several thousand bucks per wheelset so unless you're really after speed that can be hard to justify.

Unless you really need to flat protection provided by Gatorskins (and consider a set of Maxxis Refuse when and if the Gatorskins wear out as a bit nicer version of a durable tire) then upgrade to a lighter more supple and faster tire.

-Dave

In the 'light tire' department I can recommend Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comps. Nice rolling tires with great traction in the dry and the best puncture resistance of any clincher I have used. The rears do wear typically fast.

Same goes for Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tires. Maybe slightly less puncture resistance (or worse luck?) IMO and about the same wear and grip characteristics.

Thanks for all the feedback Dave!!! I live in the Northeast so goat thorns are not an issue for me. I live down the street from a 10.5 mile paved rail trail and most of my riding in general is on rail trails. In order to increase my mileage I have been finding some good resedential routes as well. I try as much as possible to stay off of main roads because of debris, cars, and drivers using their cell phones haha. As a result I do not have to worry as much about glass, debris, metal. etc etc. I would definitely be willing to try another tire for next season, but I do need to learn how to fix a flat properly. I tried it when I had my first flat and failed miserably regardless of how many youtube videos I watched haha. The local bike stores usually have clinics from time to time on stuff like this so I would be better off trying to learn in person. What kind of increase (roughly) can one expect to gain from a faster tire? Will I gain noticibly better performance going uphill compared to downhill or level? I will admit my bike feels a little sluggish going uphill and I suspected it may be due to the tires. I plan on eclipsing the 1,000 mile mark later this week!! Last year I did 1,700 miles and this year I am aiming for 2,200 before the season ends for me in October (at least on the weekdays).

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by mark174ace [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

...What kind of increase (roughly) can one expect to gain from a faster tire? Will I gain noticibly better performance going uphill compared to downhill or level?...

In terms of mph increase it's realistically small but still noticeable. Maybe something on the order of a quarter to half mph added to average speeds for the same effort but that's nothing to sneeze at. But more importantly, most folks report increased comfort and a nicer ride with more supple tires and this can make the whole experience more enjoyable.

Hills won't become automatically easier but that decreased rolling resistance might become more apparent on hills with the lower speeds you're riding but still the big thing you're working against on hills is gravity and lifting the weight of yourself and your bike uphill. The slightly lighter tires will have very little direct impact on your total weight so there's no magic advantage on hills.

-Dave

Once again thanks Dave. 1/2 mph is definitely nothing to sneeze at. As I lose weight the inclines will become a little easier. Its not that I am struggling, but just a bit sluggish. I have looked at your suggestions and the Conti GP 4000 definitely peak my interest. I am so pleased with the Gatorskins that I may keep my next purchase in the family.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by mark174ace [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Once again thanks Dave. 1/2 mph is definitely nothing to sneeze at. As I lose weight the inclines will become a little easier. Its not that I am struggling, but just a bit sluggish. I have looked at your suggestions and the Conti GP 4000 definitely peak my interest. I am so pleased with the Gatorskins that I may keep my next purchase in the family.

Make sure you get the GP4000s with the Black Chili compound. They roll faster and corner better than the straight GP4000 version and are reasonably durable for a fast tire.

-Dave

Should I worry about pinch flats on less durable, but faster tires? The reason I ask is because I weigh 215lbs. I have done a little research and I have read a couple of accounts of problems with pinch flats which the authors thought was maybe due to being heavier. Just wondering if I need to keep that in mind in selecting a new tire someday.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by mark174ace [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Should I worry about pinch flats on less durable, but faster tires? The reason I ask is because I weigh 215lbs. I have done a little research and I have read a couple of accounts of problems with pinch flats which the authors thought was maybe due to being heavier. Just wondering if I need to keep that in mind in selecting a new tire someday.

Pinch flats results result from either poor tire installation where you trap some inner tube under a tire bead or from running too low a pressure for your weight and hitting an obstacle like a pothole or curb too hard. The tire does not play a big role in that, so light tires are not more or less prone to pinch flatting than heavier tires but at your weight you don't want to run super low pressures in your tires.

The recent trend towards wider clincher rims as in 23mm or wider rims decrease the risk of pinch flatting and allow riders to run a bit less pressure for a more comfortable ride but even with traditional 19mm wide clincher rims a rider of your size should be ok running somewhere around 115 to 120 psi and not have much risk of pinch flats. With modern wide clincher rims like the HED C2 series or similar rims you could run less as in 100 psi or so and have very little risk of pinch flats and a more comfortable ride. If you run wider tires like 25c tires (not a bad idea at your weight) you can run less pressure in them without risking pinch flats as well so that's a good option if you're considering a tire swap. And those 25c tires are plenty fast as many European pros are racing fatter tires these days.

-Dave

I'll second all of daveryanwyoming's comments, especially his advice about considering 25mm tires. Not only can you run that tire at a bit lower pressure and gain some added comfort and bump compliance in the process, you'll also gain a bit larger contact patch under each tire and therefore a bit more grip (assuming you drop the pressure a bit as advised). As for any added speed that might come with a tire with a lower coefficient of rolling resistance, you can reasonably expect to gain up to 0.25-ish to 0.5-ish mph, at your weight, with a decent tire choice. Note that rolling changes not only with tires but also with the road surface. You can easily this when you compare pedaling on smooth pavement vs. pedaling on something like chip and seal.

+1 on the 25c's. After Dave mentioned them awhile ago, I bought some Michelin pro 4 25c's along with latex tubes as an experiment. I can't prove they're faster but they aren't slower for sure. More important to me is they are REALLY comfortable and grippy as hell. I've got 3000k on them over a lot of NYC "roads" and while the rear one is showing a pretty good flat center the front one will get swapped to the rear and go a lot longer. The flatness on the rear one was partially my fault as I ran it around 50lb pressure for 300k by mistake (didn't have a pump with a gauge and wasn't used to the feel of the new tire). I weigh 70kg and run the front at 90 and rear at 95 psi and haven't had a flat yet (kiss of death for sure).
Good Luck

As far as patching tubes, I have had great luck with using REMA FP0 patches and a large tube of rubber cement purchased at an auto parts store. Forget the small tubes of cement in the tire patch kits, it dries out before it is needed. I haven't purchased new tubes for a year - I have a rotation of 4 or 5. Some tubes have up to 10 patches, none have failed.

I suppose that having too many could start affecting ride quality - but I haven't noticed anything yet.

For tires, I often buy what is on sale. I usually avoid the cheapest tires but don't get the most expensive either. Currently I am riding on Hutchsinson Fusion 3s, Vittoria Rubino Pros and have Hutchinson Atoms on my tri bike. I don't get many flats, I try to avoid road debris and after rides, I dig the rocks and glass stuck in the rubber out.

Thanks Dave and Alien! I was reading recently that maybe I should be using 25's for better handling and comfort. My bike came with 23's so when I swapped out the Bontrager tires for Gatorskins I just figured I should buy 23's. I know a lot more now than I did a year ago for sure! I ride mostly smooth pavement as opposed to chip and seal (with some frost heaves thrown in for good measure). Most of the debris I come across is just leaves, twigs, and sand. I would like to get up to a 20mph pace and a little more comfort as the Gators are definitely a little harsh in that respect, but they have served me well. I will definitely be looking into a tire upgrade.

Thanks for the replies! Great community.

After reading through the answers, I went to the bike store down the road and had them replace the tube. According to them it was a pinch flat with a tiny hole (couldn't even find it). My guess is that the tire wasn't installed properly at the factory.

Next step is getting patches and a CO2 cartridge! That way I don't need to worry about this happening out on a ride.

MDKaiser said:

Thanks for the replies! Great community. After reading through the answers, I went to the bike store down the road and had them replace the tube. According to them it was a pinch flat with a tiny hole (couldn't even find it). My guess is that the tire wasn't installed properly at the factory. Next step is getting patches and a CO2 cartridge! That way I don't need to worry about this happening out on a ride.

You'll want to get several CO2 cartridges. After all, you don't want to have to run to the store to buy a new cartridge after every flat.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

You'll want to get several CO2 cartridges. After all, you don't want to have to run to the store to buy a new cartridge after every flat.

Agreed, not to mention it can take a cartridge or two to figure out how they work and it sucks to only carry 1, empty it in a futile attempt to fill the tube and then be high and dry, that or have a flat, fail to find the offending piece of glass, sharp rock or tiny piece of wire just to have another flat a few miles down the road after spending your sole cartridge. IOW, buy a few as long as you're in the shop and carry two until you're confident in your tire changes including carefully checking your tires and not pinching the tube on install, carry at least one tube and one of those tiny packs of pre-glued patches.

BTW, it's very weird to have a pinch flat, especially an installation pinch flat that results in a blowout but leaves a hole in the tube too small to find. That sounds fishy so don't be surprised if you have another flat in the near future and find something else wrong like something stuck in your tire or maybe some bad rim strip and a spoke head showing.

It sucks at first, but flats are part of the game and once you develop self reliance and confidence with roadside changes you'll be a better all around cyclist and can go longer distances from home with confidence. You're paying dues right now but it will pay off in the long run.

-Dave

If you cannot find the hole in the tube, you are not looking hard enough.

I can find the hole in a tube by pumping it up slightly and passing the length of the tube by my face and ear. I can either hear or feel the leak. In the rare case that that doesn't work - I put the inflated tube in a bucket of water - the bubbles will lead you to the hole.

Once I find the hole in the tube, I go and look at the corresponding spot in the tire to remove whatever debris has caused the flat.

Patch the tube, it is easy to do, pennies on the dollar cheaper than a brand new one and just as reliable.

I have been able to find CO2 cartridges for about $0.50 each in bulk at sites like Nashbar.