TSS

I find TSS pretty useful for tracking overall workload, but yeah it doesn't describe everything perfectly or give much insight into the intensity of actual workouts.

You example seems a bit off:

2 hours at 70% is just under 100 TSS (2*100*.7^2 = 98)
A 4x4' at 130% with say 5 minutes rest at 50% and perhaps 15 minutes on either end at 65% to warmup and cooldown takes just over an hour and yields ~94 TSS.

So yeah, the 4x4 at 130% probably leaves more residual fatigue than 2 hours at 70% but their TSS values aren't all that different. If you're doing a 4x4 L5 set in only 40 minutes then you're either cutting out warmup and cool down or really squeezing those repeats close together which could lead to these beating you up even more.

-Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by matt76 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

How do you use TSS in your training? I think it is à good measure but still I think that it is harder to recover from a 4 x 4 @ 130% of FTP then a 2 hr ride @ 70 %. The TSS is about 140 in the long session and perhaps 70 in the short session (40 min).

Matt

TSS is worthless.

Rory Sutherland averaged 300TSS at 70% IF at last week's week long race. He thought some of those days were hard. The numbers are typical of professionals - when they are doing training. A number of pros were just training in this race.

This time of year I usually do what amounts to 200TSS at 80% IF over 3 hours or 180TSS at 90% IF over 2 hours. Most every day. Certainly not hard work. Pretty much of no use as training. But harder than the pros race or train.

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If your 16 minutes of 4x4 require recovering, you need to get in better shape.

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Today I raced a train for several miles. I always beat the little train that runs at 20mph or so. I always lose to the big trains that run at 40mph. But this train was doing 24-25mph. And I just got pulled into working hard. 150% FTP until I died. A few seconds rest at 90%. 125% until I hit my turn. that was good training.

Note that an old guy is a troll and yes yet to provide a single bit of evidence regarding his claims. I think you'll be well off listening to daveryanwyoming, Alex Simmons, and others, rather than giving any credence to an old guy's claims.

Dave, i was cutting out the cool down and having a short worm up. I had limited time for training that day so it was 38 minute workout. Even if it was a short workout I felt it in my legs the day after. I usually don't feel a slow 2 hr ride. I think it is a good measure, but not sure that I'm using it correctly in my training plan... Thanks for all replies!

I have been using real time TSS as a guide since last year on my longer Saturday rides. It is on one of the Garmin screens that is not my default, but I will flip it over and take a peek later in the ride or at random times. The way I use it is based on prior experience knowing at what point is typically a TSS level that I reach where it impacts training the following day(s). For me around 300+ TSS it is typical that I will not be able to train the next day (or at least not very well) based on observing trends in past rides. As if 8 out of 10 times it happens. So it is not perfect, but it has been useful in controlling the IF during a ride to keep TSS at a point below 300 and when I do I can typically train again the next day.

I used this on a 90 mile endurance ride yesterday. I certainly could have pushed harder, but ending with a 220 TSS yesterday I am pretty sure I will be able to go back again this afternoon and do my scheduled 2x60. My legs are sort of buzzing this morning, but I think it will be fine to go again.

I will just say for what I want to do with training I really do like having TSS as a guide. Before Garmin put it on the Edge I still had an idea of "x" miles, "x" time, and "x" AP about what I would have at the end for TSS, but now having it on the bike just takes some of the guess work out just as having power on the bike computer is a huge step over RPE.

The only day I use TSS is on that big Saturday ride.

4x4 at a very strong VO2max pace with very truncated (essentially lacking) warm up and cool down left your legs 'feeling it.' This is not a surprise. Do you often jump into a crit with no warm up? Perhaps you've noticed that 15-20 minutes of riding at an easy pace after hard intervals leaves your legs almost ready to go again? I think the different 'recovery' sensations between the two rides have more to do with a less than ideal protocol for your vo2 work (and maybe subsequent nutrition?) than the difference between the metabolic demands of the two rides. Ive certainly found rides with very different neuromuscular demands leave very different sensations of recovery but honestly if I'm doing L2-L5 workouts of less than ~150 TSS and recovering properly I don't notice particularly different power outputs or RPE on a subsequent training session.