spending $4k or more, worth it?

What bike do you have now?

The biggest factor from a performance perspective is ALWAYS the rider. When going up hill there's always more weight on the rider than there is on the bike. When you're hammering on the flat the rider is always the biggest aero obsticle. That's not to say that the bike isn't important but for the most part the bike is just a thing with wheels that allows you to put the saddle and bars where you need them to be.

Stick Fabian Cancellara on a $900 "on clearnance sale" 2009 Cannondale CAAD 8 and he'll still hammer along at 30mph. Stick the likes of you and I on a $10,000 bike with the best bits and he'll still ride away into the distance leaving us in his dust.

Instead of thinking of comparing the weights of bikes on their own, think of the bike rider combo and the small percentage difference a slightly lighter bike makes - because the last time I checked, the bike doesn't ride itself. If you're a former runner, the chances are you're pretty lean and don't have a bunch of weight to lose - unless you stopped running years ago and took to the pies and beers in the mean time...

The expensive, well engineered, bikes do ride very well and handle well too but often these are things that you perceive to be an advantage. Given that on a 7 to 8% hill, 1lb weight loss requires about 1 less watt of power, $5,000 on a bike that's about 5lb lighter will save you a whopping 5 watts. Given a halfway reasonable training schedule, most people could lose 5lbs and gain more than 5 watts in 12 weeks... but you could always argue that you could do the 12 weeks of training, spend the $5k on a bike and take a massive dump before the ride and come out a triple winner :P

If you shop around you can pick up a great bike for $3K or less:

racycles.comproduct.aspxOpen ↗

... just as an example. The RS was good enough for the Cervelo team in the Tour of Spain and Paris Roubaix. $2600 for a complete bike. If you have $4,000 - then you could add in a power meter and train better.

Consider something like a Cannondale CAAD10, equiped with Ultegra with a power meter.

I'd actually argue that a power meter is a better investment, in terms of performance, than a bike. If you use one to train and ride smarter you'll ultimately go faster... and you can use it to pace long rides better as well as aero testing to give you more speed for the same power - or the same speed for less power. Nifty huh?

If the power meter option doesn't do it for you - then something like a Cannondale SuperSix 3 Ultegra just might. The same SuperSix Hi-Mod frame that the Liquigas team used to ride (and Basso won the Giro on in 2010) with 10 speed Ultegra 6700 for around $3,500. I have the same frame but with Dura Ace kit and the frame is exactly how Ivan Basso describes it "It is incredible. It’s so light and stiff, but is comfortable as well, perfectly balanced"

... but a CAAD 10 Ultegra with better wheels (say HED Jet6) would be faster... but not as fast as ultimately training smarter/better.

Are all these guys you're riding with that have bikes that cost $7k just riding off and leaving you in their dust?

Or are you just struggling a bit to keep up with them?

If you have the money and are eventually going to want to ride an expensive bike get it now.

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Lots of good bikes for $3000. That is after you upgrade to powertap rear wheel, by the cassettes you need for where you ride, and buy the extras - pump, helmet, water bottes and cages, ...

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I don't ride with people who care what bike I have or how much their bike cost.

Thanks for the input -- especially Swampy1970 for the lengthy and informative post.

I'm riding a Jamis Ventura Comp from 2009. It looks like these are usually in the $900 range, but I got mine for less because it was almost 2 years old and they wanted to clear it out. The guys I ride with are Cat 1's and 2's. They do drop me, but only by about 30-45 seconds on a 25 minute climb. I can still see them right in front of me. I have a distance running background which is probably helping me some (I used to run the 10k in about 30 minutes in college).

Now that I'm getting into biking and doing higher mileage, I decided I wanted to invest in a nicer bike. I agree completely with Swampy that the rider is the deciding factor, not the bike. But if I'm going to put in 10k miles a year for many years now, I'd prefer to have something lighter and zippier. At the same time, I don't want to get ripped off and pay an extra two thousand dollars for something that makes a .5% difference, when I might as well just train a little harder and save the money.

With that in mind -- if I get a reasonably light carbon frame and decent components, is there any reason to spend more than about 3k or 4k? I'm looking at the Specialized Tarmac Expert, which I can get for about $3700 at a nearby bike shop. Naturally, though, they're pushing me to the really expensive bikes, saying I'll need something top of the line if I decide to race anytime soon.

I'd rather test ride a few bikes in the 3k range and pick one I like. The reason for my posts, however, is that since I'm relatively new to this, I'm afraid maybe there IS something to the more expensive bikes that I'll discover a year or so down the road, after I've already sunk thousands into something else. I'm happy to pay an extra thousand now if it really makes a difference. But I want to know what I should be looking for and thinking about when doing test rides.

I've literally only ridden my Jamis. I've never even pedaled around a parking lot on someone else's road bike... hence my post...

If you want the best performance out of a bike, then get the bike that fits the best and is most comfortable. If you want the best performance out of yourself, get a power meter. If you're not sure what to do, re-read Swampy's post.

Swampy is right about the bike being less important than the engine (you) but it does play a roll. As far as what to spend well that is relative to your budget and only you can answer that question.

Here are my general guidelines for retail pricing vs. what you get:
Under $500 Poor quality everything.
$500-$1000 Rideable but lower quality components. These components will work fine just not as smooth as higher end stuff.
$1000-$2500 Best bang for the buck. This range gets you in to some nice components with good performance and you also start to get in to lighter weights.
$2500-$5000 This is where you start to pay a lot more for little differences, each dollar will get you better performing components and will save you even more weight but $ to performance/weight goes way up.
$5000-$15000 This is for the big pockets and you will start to spend lots of $ to save a little weight.

Bikes in all of these price ranges are bought and sold every day and for good reason, everyone has different budgets and values. Every dollar you spend will get you something and that something will make you faster, granted the difference is minuscule at most and barely measurable. The most important factor is fit so find a shop that can and will help you get a good fit.

Bottom line whatever you get down the road you will wish you got the next step up. Why? Because you are human and it was close to your budget and nicer than what you have.

I hope this helps.