More Campy compatibility questions...

JonnyG said:

Hi All: I'm choosing components (Campy) for a new road bike build, and a few questions have arisen. My plan is to use as much 10 speed Chorus / Record stuff as I can come up with. Shifters and derailleurs look readily available at this point, cranks and brakes not as much. Where required, the following questions pertain to '07 vintage Chorus and Record shifters / derailleurs.

1. Have there been any changes to the amount of cable pull for brakes between 10 speed and 11 speed shifters? (I ask because Shimano has just done exactly this on the new Dura Ace and Ultegra). I plan to use the current brakes (11 speed?) with the aforementioned shifters.

2. Any issues with the current Campy Chorus brakes? Do they perform well?

3. Can I use an 11 speed crankset on a 10 speed drivetrain? The only reason I can see that it wouldn't work is if they changed the ring spacing. Have they done this? I guess the other possibility would be if the shifting aids (ramps, pins) were very 11 speed specific.

4. This next one is more a matter of opinion. Campy FD's aren't available in the 28.6 clamp dia. that I need. Which looks better A) use a third part braze on adapter and a braze on derailleur, or B) use a 31.8 clamp derailleur and shim it. If you prefer the braze on adapter method, is there a specific adapter that looks best?

Since the usual suspects haven't replied, yet ...

1. I believe that the changes to the brake calipers can be considered as being cosmetic.

2. Brake performance is actually over-rated, IMO. The pads, themselves, mean more; and, unless the braking surface on the pads has glazed over OR the rider has arthritis in his/her hands, an inexpensive pair of calipers will stop the wheels from rotating.
[INDENT]Once you get past the $40 MSRP per pair level (a pretty low threshold which can probably be lower!), there are very few truly poor calipers, now, and very few truly bad pads -- if you need to stop, almost any set of calipers will stop the bike.
[/INDENT]If it really matters to you, then you will want to know that Shimano's pads are supposed to be the best ...

And, Shimano's calipers are supposed to be the stiffest (i.e., least flexy) and thereby they theoretically give the rider more modulation control.
[INDENT]BTW. Some people offset their brake pads so close to the rim's braking surface that modulation MUST BE all but impossible ... well, it would be for me!
[/INDENT]IMO, the brake cable & housing will probably have more impact on modulation & actual braking than either the brand of the caliper or the pads ...

So, IMO, you can choose the calipers which are the most aesthetically pleasing to you!
[INDENT]Heck, I honestly wasn't enamored with Campagnolo's Skeleton brake caliper design when I first saw it, but then I saw a set on a friend's bike and I thought "hey, those actually do look pretty good" so I switched two pair of pre-Skeleton Record calipers for a set of Chorus Skeleton calipers & a set of Veloce Skeleton calipers.
[/INDENT]3. I believe you can use a 11-speed chainrings with a 10-speed drivetrain ...

If not, you can cut some "shims" from a soda/beer can.

4. I recommend that you choose/use a braze-on adapter rather than shimming a 31.8 front derailleur. If STYLE is important & you are really ambitious, track down a Nuovo Record braze-on adapter from about 35 years ago. Campagnolo probably still has one. If my memory serves me (which it may not), I think Nashbar used to have a minimalist braze-on adapter that did not look as clumsy as some do.

If your general sensibilities will allow you to use a Shimano front derailleur, then choose an Ultegra 6500 front derailleur with a 28.6 clamp ... AND, if necessary (for your aesthetic sensibilities) paint the cage with some of WalMart's house brand (blue label ... accept no substitutes!) FLAT BLACK spray paint or (better) get some CF tape & cover the outer plate.

An Ultegra 6600 front derailleur might be 'okay' ... but, the slightly wider cage plate separation on the 6500 means that you will need to trim the front derailleur less than you will if the cage plates are incrementally closer together.

Of course, if you are a "Campy only" type, then you can get any non-Record/-Chorus Campagnolo front derailleur which has a 28.6 clamp (again, apply some CF tape to its outer cage if your aesthetic sensibilities require it).

JonnyG said:

Hi All: I'm choosing components (Campy) for a new road bike build, and a few questions have arisen. My plan is to use as much 10 speed Chorus / Record stuff as I can come up with. Shifters and derailleurs look readily available at this point, cranks and brakes not as much. Where required, the following questions pertain to '07 vintage Chorus and Record shifters / derailleurs.

1. Have there been any changes to the amount of cable pull for brakes between 10 speed and 11 speed shifters? (I ask because Shimano has just done exactly this on the new Dura Ace and Ultegra). I plan to use the current brakes (11 speed?) with the aforementioned shifters.

11 spd brakes will work with 10 spd shifters, and vice versa.

Quoted post said:

2. Any issues with the current Campy Chorus brakes? Do they perform well?

They perform fine. I had Record Skeleton brakes and they worked well but had slightly less power than Mavic SSC's with the same brake pads. IMHO, Mavic SSC's are one of the greatest brake sets ever, and their price is a veritable steal.

Quoted post said:

3. Can I use an 11 speed crankset on a 10 speed drivetrain? The only reason I can see that it wouldn't work is if they changed the ring spacing. Have they done this? I guess the other possibility would be if the shifting aids (ramps, pins) were very 11 speed specific.

The 11 spd crank will work just fine with a 10 spd system. Likewise, a 10 spd crank will work with the 11 spd system.

Quoted post said:

4. This next one is more a matter of opinion. Campy FD's aren't available in the 28.6 clamp dia. that I need. Which looks better A) use a third part braze on adapter and a braze on derailleur, or B) use a 31.8 clamp derailleur and shim it. If you prefer the braze on adapter method, is there a specific adapter that looks best?

There are usually some 28.6 mm clamps on eBay. Otherwise, I'd likely use a 3rd party braze on adapter w/ a braze on FD.

JonnyG said:

Hi All: I'm choosing components (Campy) for a new road bike build, and a few questions have arisen. My plan is to use as much 10 speed Chorus / Record stuff as I can come up with. Shifters and derailleurs look readily available at this point, cranks and brakes not as much. Where required, the following questions pertain to '07 vintage Chorus and Record shifters / derailleurs.

1. Have there been any changes to the amount of cable pull for brakes between 10 speed and 11 speed shifters? (I ask because Shimano has just done exactly this on the new Dura Ace and Ultegra). I plan to use the current brakes (11 speed?) with the aforementioned shifters.

2. Any issues with the current Campy Chorus brakes? Do they perform well?

3. Can I use an 11 speed crankset on a 10 speed drivetrain? The only reason I can see that it wouldn't work is if they changed the ring spacing. Have they done this? I guess the other possibility would be if the shifting aids (ramps, pins) were very 11 speed specific.

4. This next one is more a matter of opinion. Campy FD's aren't available in the 28.6 clamp dia. that I need. Which looks better A) use a third part braze on adapter and a braze on derailleur, or B) use a 31.8 clamp derailleur and shim it. If you prefer the braze on adapter method, is there a specific adapter that looks best?

Thanks again for your assistance.
Jon

1. No..same brakes, new shape levers. The brakes worked great with 'older' shape levers, work even better with new shape levers.

2. No great brakes as are all Campagnolo brakes.

3. Yes w/o problem. Altho the rings are a wee bit closer together(about .4mm) on 11s, the 11s cranks on other wise 10 systems work great. I have installed many 11s cranks on 10s systems. You 'may' get a bit more chain to big ring contact in smaller cogs but that's it..ust shift.

4. I think a 28.6 clamp on a brazeon looks and works best. Problem solvers, others have such an animal. Congratulations on your steel frame!! great choice(I have 4 steel frames, 1 Ti, zero plastic).

Thanks to all for the very helpful replies. I had been leaning toward getting a clamp on FD, but since there was consensus in the replies to go with braze on, that's what I'll do. I'll probably use the Problem Solvers adapter.
I went to a local bike shop yesterday, and I managed to find a couple bikes that were Campy equipped. I wanted to compare the old Ergo shifters with the new Ultra shifters to see which I liked better. I wasn't able to ride any bikes, just play with them in the showroom. I'm coming from a Shimano bike (Ultegra / 600 shifters), and I'm kind of used to the bigger "knob" on the shifters, so I think I prefer the newer style Campy shifters. The older Ergo shifters felt like I could slide right off. Less of a knob to lean on. I'm not sure if I should start a new thread to ask more questions, or put more here... I'll put a few here and see what happens.

1. Do the Centaur Ultra shifters function well and have they been reliable? Are they a Xenon based shifter (that you guys previously cautioned me about)?
The one description I read said they are a ball bearing design. The negative comments I have read have been related to them being too quiet, no feedback, can't tell when you've changed gears, tendency to overshift. I think I read one comment from Peter that this may have improved a bit.

2. Opinions on cranks... I saw some comments that the Centaur carbon crank was quite nice, but the rings were stamped and didn't look too great. That's why I might consider upgrading to Athena or Chorus (11 speed). I also prefer the look of silver rings to black. I really only need a 48 tooth big ring, so I could just buy Centaur and get new rings. I'm a wee bit nervous about carbon cranks in general, so I'd like to stick with the big brand name (ie. Campy). Sounds like the Fulcrum cranks are pretty similar however. I'd be glad to hear opinions on cranks...

3. My current handlebar selection is the FSA wing pro. I like the shape of it, but it has very little drop. Anybody know something similar with a hair more drop?

4. Forks. I'm going to ask the frame builder about a custom steel fork, but I suspect I'll go with carbon to save some weight. I'll probably stick with a alloy steerer however. If the Alpha Q CS10 were still available, I'd get that (OX platinum steerer). Unfortunately, it's gone. What's your favourite fork? I need one for non-integrated headset.

5. Lastly for today... How does the brake release mechanism work on Campy? I hear it's on the shifters and not the calipers. Where is it?
Thanks muchly.
Jon