ECSS - Congress

"Smart Cranks on oxygen upatke, lactate threshold and maximum power output was not advantageous to training with conventional bicycle cranks."

ah ha!, scientists who can't even spell correctly. comes off pretty disheartening and juvenile-ishly negligible to myself. sorry but it states that they were neither good nor bad but again, all i can focus on is the public stupidity of their misspelling which accounts for a lot.

try again.

While some focus on the trivial others look at the drop in VO2 in the experimental group while the control increased and that while both groups decreased in peak power the control decreased a small amount compared to the larger drop in the experimental group.

The study was 6 weeks and as we have seen in short interval training studies physiological and performance improvements can be seen within 2 weeks we should have seen any proposed effect of using an independent crank system after 6 weeks. This gets added to the list of studies that have shown no difference or a decrease in the experimental group.

I am more keen to see what Ronnestad publishes next as he is one of the few researchers who has tried to study the effects of resistance training where the experimental and control group are using a similar training load and is using trained cyclists, although not Elite where the effects would diminish as one would expect they would be closer to their potential than other athletes.

i simply refudiate to believe in any of it but man am i hungry. mmmm, ****ake mushrooms. Thanks new Sarah Palin word upatke!

Interesting, but not surprising as even the anecdotal reviews of independent cranks typically show results in the neighborhood of "could barely get out of bed" after 6 weeks of training. Supposedly the VO2max fairy comes to visit one night in the 6-9 month timeframe, and that's when the big improvement happens.

busted.

^^ LOL, you don't get it, do you ? 😄

I get that it's the same old thing being brought up by the same person with the same hard on for the same reasons. nothing has changed and if you knew of certain factors such as base miles you would know that they, even as they pertain to elitists, do not represent the here and now but foresee the acts possible many, many months from when they first lay down those miles by turning those cranks.

nothing happens overnight and nothing is immediate.

frenchyge said:

Interesting, but not surprising as even the anecdotal reviews of independent cranks typically show results in the neighborhood of "could barely get out of bed" after 6 weeks of training. Supposedly the VO2max fairy comes to visit one night in the 6-9 month timeframe, and that's when the big improvement happens.

Got an anecdote for the VO2max fairy?

fergie said:

Got an anecdote for the VO2max fairy?

Yes. the VO2 max fairy shows up every night in the Powercranks inventor's dreams.

I thought that was the efficiency fairy who is not to be confused with the 40% gain fairy.

roadhouse said:

nothing happens overnight and nothing is immediate.

Several decades ago, a study from John Holloszy's lab showed that the activity of delta amino levilnate synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in heme biosynthesis and hence increases in components of the electron transport chain in mitochondria, increased within 18 h a single bout of exercise.

More recent studies examining regulators of mitochondrial biogenesis such as PGC1-alpha have shown increases w/in a few hours of an acute bout of exercise.

Undoubtly due to the rapidity of such adaptations, the half-life for changes in things such blood lactate concentration or RER with changes in training load is about 6-10 d.

So, yes, things do, in fact, happen "overnight"...

fergie said:

I thought that was the efficiency fairy who is not to be confused with the 40% gain fairy.

Sorry, I must have mixed up my fairies. :o

fergie said:

Got an anecdote for the VO2max fairy?

It was this long-term test by Josh Horowitz on Pez Cycling which I was referring to. Year one summary: PezCycling News - What's Cool In Pro Cycling

Basically it sounds like his initial fitness dropped because he just wasn't able to sustain his normal training load on the independent cranks, but despite having to switch back to regular cranks to maintain his training program he still eventually got visited by the crank fairy and realized the huge gains that made it all worthwhile.

I think it was the "lucky red sock" fairy myself.

It took me 6 weeks to just get used to riding hard on the power cranks... Just riding on them comfortably took about a month... With that in mind how is one supposed to put out more power if you can just about ride them?

From doing pretty much the same training during Feb to July during the past several years and the only year that used the PCs exclusively was by far and away the highest average power (320 watts for 2 hours and feeling good rather than 320 for an hour and struggling).

I knew i wasn't going as well prior to June but i stuck with the regular super light, super stiff cannondale cranks on the hi-mod just to see. Back training on the 'Other' bike with the PCs and even after a few weeks the difference is noticeable.

If someone comes out with a long term study then I might reconsider my training based upon something other than my own personal experience.

Nice to see that after a long time away from posting, Fergie starts spanking his monkey on the PC hatred again... Predictable.

Wrong, wrong and wrong, made a contribution to the HR monitoring when one has a power meter thread and training on the budget thread where one dufus suggested buying both a power meter and a set of independent cranks, heck why not hire Valentino Rossi to do some motorpacing while your at it.

So yes all you have is personal experience verses a steadily growing pile of studies showing no effect or worse a negative effect. I will stick to my evidence based practice and save my $$$ thank you very much.

Keen to discuss the Ronnestad paper showing some evidence that one can use weight training in season and improve power greater than conventional training.

14th Annual ECSS-Congress, Oslo 2009

Nice too see the ecss rehashed the Smart Cranks study last year too... And judging from the URL it wasn't the first time either.

Do they actually change topics or same ol' folk out for a 'jolly' ?

If several studies show PCs to be no good after a short term test of 6 weeks or so, why do people keep carrying out such tests? It's not like the long term reports from riders who have used them have said anything other than it takes time... But that time is worth it.

Link to all abstracts from 2009

Wrong yet again.

swampy1970 said:

If several studies show PCs to be no good after a short term test of 6 weeks or so, why do people keep carrying out such tests? It's not like the long term reports from riders who have used them have said anything other than it takes time... But that time is worth it.

Maybe it's to benefit from the funding. As I see it, testing is not necessary because after years of continuous PC use you will only have the perfect circular technique and Coyle has already confirmed that circular is the weaker of the two techniques, mashing being the most powerful. What is the explanation for the necessity of all this continuous training time with PC's. After your prolonged training time with PC's, can you answer these two simple questions, what muscles are being trained by the PC's and where in the pedalling circle do these stronger muscles apply the additional crank torque? If you cannot give a satisfactory answer, there cannot be a PC related power increase.

roadhouse said:

nothing happens overnight and nothing is immediate.

Not if your training comprises attempted single leg or independent crank 360 deg. power application because on your return to two legged pedalling, divided concentration and time wasting concentration in upper and lower dead spot areas will result in a less effective technique. In cycling it is possible but the only way to obtain a dramatic overnight increase in a pedal stroke's cumulative crank torque is to make the simple switch to "linear pedalling" and concentrate on attempted maximal torque from each leg over 180 deg., by mentally and biomechanically plugging in to a readily available untapped maximal power source as pedal moves between 11 and 2 o'c. Unlike Frank's PC idea no additional training of these muscles is required because the combination of muscles involved is already more powerful than those normally used at 3 o'c. So yes it is possible, if Contador had made the switch to this ideal TT technique, with a pair of Scott Rake aero bars he could have turned a larger chainring at the same cadence without the slightest forward movement on his saddle.