Super Record or Di2?

I'll say it - there needs to be a "Neither" category...

tonyzackery said:

I'll say it - there needs to be a "Neither" category...

True, but if you were forced to take one against your will....

parkmonster said:

True, but if you were forced to take one against your will....

I think that the Super Record would be preferable to the Di2 mainly because you are not limited by how much of a charge your battery has left. Aside from that issue, from the very short ride that I was able to get on a Di2 equipped bike, I beleive that someone who is used to shifting the Super Record drive train would detect little difference in the performance between the two.

kdelong said:

I think that the Super Record would be preferable to the Di2 mainly because you are not limited by how much of a charge your battery has left. Aside from that issue, from the very short ride that I was able to get on a Di2 equipped bike, I beleive that someone who is used to shifting the Super Record drive train would detect little difference in the performance between the two.

I've heard from people who use Di2 that the battery life is ridiculously long, so it seems the consideration is more around weight, cost, and appearance. The battery placement is an eyesore (other than on the Giant TCR where it is under the chain stay). One advantage commonly mentioned is the need never to adjust Di2 -- but again, not sure is that's just marketing also.

I'd just like to know from people who have NOT actually fallen prey to marketing and purchased it, why they would or wouldn't try it.

parkmonster said:

I've heard from people who use Di2 that the battery life is ridiculously long, so it seems the consideration is more around weight, cost, and appearance. The battery placement is an eyesore (other than on the Giant TCR where it is under the chain stay). One advantage commonly mentioned is the need never to adjust Di2 -- but again, not sure is that's just marketing also.

I'd just like to know from people who have NOT actually fallen prey to marketing and purchased it, why they would or wouldn't try it.

Ridiculously long is a long time I guess, but how long is it? If I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, but I think that it has a rechargeable battery? But the placement is rather an eyesore like you said.

As for adjustment, once my cables have stretched, I don't have to adjust my drivetrain either. But I have not fallen prey to the marketing but not purchased one mainly because I cannot see a need for it. Secondly, it is outrageously priced and I could not justify paying that much for it, even if I could identify a need.

tonyzackery said:

I'll say it - there needs to be a "Neither" category...

Yes this is another poll intended to compare completely different items.

One is a top of the range racing groupset, the other is an innovation (for cycling) largely intended as a marketing exercise.

I have ridden both, and when I come to buy my next groupset I won't be buying either.

Super record works well once properly set up. The same way any campagnolo groupset from the last 10 years would do. Campagnolo cassettes and chains also last a lot longer than from other manufacturers. The extra (invisible) bling of super record isn't worth the price.

As for the Nintendo... er, I mean Di2:
My test ride was interesting. I spent a bit of time trying to make the shifting stuff up, but it seems to work fine when used abusively. Whether shimano should be encouraging people use rough shifts at all is another point...
However, nobody rides like that, and when taken in the context of what it does (it is supposed to be a groupset), there is absolutely no difference in performance between Di2 and any other high range groupset.
In fact I'd be prepared to argue that the lack of tactile feel on the shift buttons and loo-light shift action is actually worse than the feel of a mechanical set up.

Then there is the "technology" aspect that has been harped about. Anyone who has used a radio control car or plane in the last 50 years has already used the "technology" in this groupset (with the added benefit that an RC plane is actually WIRELESS). Stepper motors and logic circuits have been around for donkey's years.
The fact that there is a battery which needs regular charging doesn't seem to account (to my thinking) for the fact that there are no cables to stretch. There is no appreciable weight difference to a mechanical set-up, and the possibility of trouble-shooting any problems at home or through the average bike shop is zero.

The fact that Shimano has completely priced Di2 out of the market only strengthens my opinion that this is, first and foremost, a marketing exercise. Campagnolo buried their electronic group a while ago, they probably figured they wouldn't make any money out of it.

My choice for groupset largely comes down to two things: Serviceability and ergonomics. Since all groupsets have only gotten uglier in recent years, looks no longer enter the equation. I still believe campag have done better with their component lifetimes, but for most punters who don't have a clue about maintenance, this is a moot point.

Kdelong + Tafi, I do agree with you -- which is why I have yet to "upgrade" from Record 10 on any of my bikes. I personally have never had issues with Record 10, DA7800, or even DA7700 for that matter. I'm not sure any of these groups offer an advantage (maybe other than shift lever ergonomics), and I think everyone is just trying to make money off of new marketing.

Also, I never really understood why you need 11 speeds on the new Campy groups.

The intent of the poll was exactly to arouse responses like the ones your providing, because I'm frankly sick of people telling me I should upgrade to either of these.

I'd rather try a new frame or wheels.

parkmonster said:

Kdelong + Tafi, I do agree with you -- which is why I have yet to "upgrade" from Record 10 on any of my bikes. I personally have never had issues with Record 10, DA7800, or even DA7700 for that matter. I'm not sure any of these groups offer an advantage (maybe other than shift lever ergonomics), and I think everyone is just trying to make money off of new marketing.

Also, I never really understood why you need 11 speeds on the new Campy groups.

The intent of the poll was exactly to arouse responses like the ones your providing, because I'm frankly sick of people telling me I should upgrade to either of these.

I'd rather try a new frame or wheels.

The advantage to the new shape levers from Campagnolo, introduced in 2009, is not 11s. It is the great ergonomics of the levers, the functionality of the levers(FD trim, RD cog selection) and the durability of the levers. Yes, it's nice to have a '27' when before you only had a 12-25 but the designers at Campagnolo, long ago realizing that the increased spacing for 10s was an advantage, saw that they could put 11 cogs in the space of 10...so they did that also but that wasn't their motivation.

Peter@vecchios said:

The advantage to the new shape levers from Campagnolo, introduced in 2009, is not 11s. It is the great ergonomics of the levers, the functionality of the levers(FD trim, RD cog selection) and the durability of the levers. Yes, it's nice to have a '27' when before you only had a 12-25 but the designers at Campagnolo, long ago realizing that the increased spacing for 10s was an advantage, saw that they could put 11 cogs in the space of 10...so they did that also but that wasn't their motivation.

True that the ergo levers are more ergo, but I've actually gotten used to the 10s levers so don't think they're so bad. But you're right that is a noticeable improvement. How do they compare to the DA7800's giant levers?

Is the FD trim much different on the 11s vs. 10s?

Re: the extra cog selection, I feel 50/34 with 11-25 in back is a sufficient range for most applications.