Involving Cyclists

Martyn Bolt said:

Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the country to try and 'engage'
cyclists?

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

In this area, which covers from Holme Moss, to border with Halifax, Leeds Bradford, Wakefield and
Barnsley.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling club, flyers sent to bike shops,
press releases sent to local papers and the cycling press.

Have you tried contacting the Leeds Cycling Action Group? leedscyclists.org.ukleedscyclists.org.ukOpen ↗ They are
actively involved with Leeds City Council AFAIK. Don't send them a circular but phone them up or e-
mail them. I am sure they will be willing and able to help/provide pointers etc. You might also
consider getting in touch, again personally, with the local CTC chapter for on-road provision. Since
you are in an area with a great RoW network also contact IMBA-UK for off-road (to guide policy on
for example maintenance of bridleways and byeways which is increasingly being done against user
interests with the cheap convenient "gravel it" solution).

As for "engaging" don't expect big turn outs - its usually down to a small core of activists who are
prepared to give up the not insignificant amounts of time voluntarily. Its not an easy job for them
to be heard and satisfy the demands of diverse cycling interests.

If you want some contacts drop me an e-mail (put my first name in place of "junk" to get past the
spam dustbin)

Tony

Martyn Bolt said:

Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the country to try and 'engage'
cyclists?

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

In this area, which covers from Holme Moss, to border with Halifax, Leeds Bradford, Wakefield and
Barnsley.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling club, flyers sent to bike shops,
press releases sent to local papers and the cycling press.

That was in about 1998, reminders have gone out periodically to try and catch changes in club
officers, new members etc.

We also get publicity in the local Sustrans Ranger newsletter.

Bearing in mind this area has a 'heritage' of cycling producing TDF riders, olympians , and these
are across the board not just road.

It seems that (IME ;-) ), cyclists don't want to go to meetings, where they will meet the people
making the decisions, the officers designing the schemes and where schemes are tabled for
discussion and suggestions prior to being implemented.

We have also had 'speaker' such as highways maintenance engineers telling people how to report
potholes etc on a freephone, and even the local NCS 'rep'.

I am interested to have suggestions on how to improve turnout, as more people = more influence on
the projects etc.

Martyn

Wakefield MDC has set up a Cycling Forum to try and improve provision for cyclists in the Wakefield
area.It has been going for just over a year with not a great deal to show for it.Plenty of hot air
and blather and precious little on the ground.IMHO there has to be a determination by local
councillors to improve the cyclists lot or else you are on a hiding to nothing,the situation not
being improved by Wakefield being an extremely safe political seat so there is no pressure to
improve anything ( not just cycling ),it is not going to influence voting one jot. I imagine that
the majority of cyclists are like the majority of non-cyclists.Political representitatives are voted
in to care for the welfare of their constiuents,the politicos become fat ,bloated and safe,voters
get apathetic and so you have stalemate and the one party merry-go round. Despite having a forum and
hearing reassurances that cyclists interests are put high upon the agenda there are projects in
Wakefield that have been constructed over the last few months where cyclists have not even been
thought about.Various members of the forum ( including myself ) have put forward various route ideas
with no response at all. I am afraid ,except for the 'hardcore', that cycling is not really seen as
an important issue, by councillors and citizens alike,but only as a 'leisure' activity.No provision
? Well just jump in the car.The sad thing is that in cities where reasonable facilities are provided
they appear to be well used and lead to a cycling infrastructure of cycle shops,cycling clubs etc
thus enhancing the local economy.

Sam Salt

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Martyn Bolt thought it would be good to say:

Quoted message said:

Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the country to try and 'engage'
cyclists?

I'm afraid that it's the same as trying to "engage" the electorate generally. There may not be a
flood of cyclist turning up for your cycle meetings, but there's probably not a flood (a seep?) of
pensioners turning up for issues concerning the elderly, or a waddle of pregnant women turning up on
issues concerning infants. The emphasis is, I'm afraid, on you. You have to prove that there's
something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter, that they can make a
difference. Alternatively, bribe them. Most people feel very disconnected from councils and the
government. They aren't going to re-connect without it being worth their while.

Pip

"Pip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

You have to prove that there's

Quoted message said:

something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter,

that

Quoted message said:

they can make a difference. Alternatively, bribe them.

I don't mean this cynically but the reintroduction of the pork barrel into politics might generate
some interest.

I think the power of local politicians to make decisions is so hamstrung that it's understandable
that many people don't have any interest in them. In the days when councillors could exert influence
to win funding for schools, sport centres or influence the selection of contractors or the
recruitment of staff people probably had a much greater interest.

On the national level there's so little difference between the parties that it's not at all
surprising that people don't think their votes will change anything.

If you want to get people involved you have to give them a reason. It's the pork barrel or real
differences in policies.
___
Michael MacClancy

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Pip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iZgGb.9920$FN.306@newsfep4-
winn.server.ntli.net...

You have to prove that there's

Quoted message said:

something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter,

that

Quoted message said:

they can make a difference. Alternatively, bribe them.

I don't mean this cynically but the reintroduction of the pork barrel into politics might generate
some interest.

I think the power of local politicians to make decisions is so hamstrung that it's understandable
that many people don't have any interest in them. In the days when councillors could exert
influence to win funding for schools, sport centres or influence the selection of contractors or
the recruitment of staff people probably had a much greater interest.

On the national level there's so little difference between the parties

that

Quoted message said:

it's not at all surprising that people don't think their votes will change anything.

If you want to get people involved you have to give them a reason. It's

the

Quoted message said:

pork barrel or real differences in policies.
___
Michael MacClancy

Alternately...my parents were never interested in politics and their parents before them. It's a
real 'us and them' thing where there's 'us' getting on with having to live our lives despite the
obstacles that 'them' put in the way. Any time I have ever encountered politicians I've come away
with a bad taste in my mouth and whilst I appreciate that to say " every politician is a jumped up
self opinionated tw*t with an over-inflated sense of self worth" is as much an inaccurate a
generalism as to say "all cyclists are lycra clad louts", I will never manage to raise much interest
in it. After all, if it weren't for 'them', who would we whinge about when things don't go the way
we want ?? ;-) I also hasten to add that in my capacities as pedestrian, driver, father, divorced
father and general non-minority group individual, I have never made representations to anybody
regards facilities / rights or much else really....and I strongly suspect that 90% of the nation
could probably make the same claim..... Oooops, sorry!! Christmas day rant bought on by too much
chocolate Dave
ps - politicians, not to be confused with local government employees who deliver the services -
Generally I have the utmost respect for these individuals who are faced with both difficult
circumstances and a scutter public!!

"(T'other) Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

too much chocolate

I've never heard it called that before!

;-)> Simonb

"news.aaisp.net.uk" <sbennett@YOU AREALLHERETICSwiderworld.co.uk> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"(T'other) Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jlDGb.8807$Y45.2431@news-
binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

Quoted message said:

too much chocolate

I've never heard it called that before!

;-)> Simonb

heh-heh...must be getting old ;-( Dave.

\(T'other\) Dave said:

ps - politicians, not to be confused with local government employees who deliver the services -
Generally I have the utmost respect for these individuals who are faced with both difficult
circumstances and a scutter public!!

You'll be saying Yes minister etc was simply television comedy and not a parody on reality next.

When it comes to managing public finances etc I'm with Tony Benn, never give anyone a position
unless you can vote them out!

You can't do that with civil servants

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:17 +0000 someone who may be Martyn Bolt
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

Take a look at their web site. There might be some information to glean there.

Don't expect to be spoon fed, which your question implies you are after. In this and another thread
you have already got plenty of good advice, though you may not like some of it.

As has been said, your question is a broad one. Government "consultation" is a difficult subject. It
often appears that such "consultation" is in fact nothing of the sort. Rather it appears to be a
public relations exercise to "legitimise" decisions that have already been taken.

Quoted message said:

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling club,

Cycling clubs tend to be about sports cycling, on track and road. The mailshots are probably
irrelevant to them as a club, though not necessarily to some of their members.

Of course the biggest cycling club is the Cyclists Touring Club, by whatever name and lack of
correct English usage it is calling itself at the moment. They have a set of members who work very
hard on "local" issues. Was information sent to them and to their headquarters? If they did not
respond then this is probably a problem of the "local" organisation, which happens in organisations
with a large geographical spread.

Quoted message said:

flyers sent to bike shops,

Bike shops tend to have all sorts of fliers in them. Worth doing, but I would not expect a
great response.

Quoted message said:

press releases sent to local papers

Who will probably put it in their sports section.

Quoted message said:

and the cycling press.

Which is almost entirely sports/leisure orientated. This may be the sort of cycling the council is
interested in, given the descriptions people have given of a pet project in another thread.

Quoted message said:

We also get publicity in the local Sustrans Ranger newsletter.

Leisure orientated.

Quoted message said:

It seems that (IME ;-) ), cyclists don't want to go to meetings, where they will meet the people
making the decisions, the officers designing the schemes and where schemes are tabled for
discussion and suggestions prior to being implemented.

Let me remind you of the objections to government road "consultations". Those inside the tent have
decided that there is a problem, they have decided what the problem is and they have decided what
the "solution" is to be (which is a large road from A to B). Having gone through all of this they
then "consult" the public by preparing a few minor variations to the road between A and B. The
public are then allowed to "decide" on some of these minor variations.

The same objections tend to apply to cycle scheme "consultation" as well. They are possible to
avoid, but this needs a culture change by officials and party politicians that goes well
beyond one area.

Quoted message said:

We have also had 'speaker' such as highways maintenance engineers telling people how to report
potholes etc on a freephone, and even the local NCS 'rep'.

What is the e-mail address to report potholes? Having reported something how quickly is it fixed and
what feedback is provided to the person making the report?

Quoted message said:

I am interested to have suggestions on how to improve turnout, as more people = more influence on
the projects etc.

1) Party politicians and officials need to demonstrate that they have learnt the most basic lesson
of how to gather public opinion. By design humans have one mouth and two ears. Read, mark and
inwardly digest this fact.

2) There is a high level of cynicism. Many people have wasted a lot of time putting their ideas to
government, only to see these ideas dismissed with personal insults, just ignored, or not
understood. Government has a hell of a task to convince the public that they will get a better
reception next time. People remember bad things far more than when government got it right.

3) The council may well have decided their priority is to build a cycle path from A to B. So what?
They may sincerely believe that this will improve things for cyclists, but in actual fact the
unconscious thinking will be to "get those dammed cyclists out of the way of [motor] traffic".

4) How many roundabouts have the council removed in the last year? A roundabout removal programme,
to make things safer for cyclists and pedestrians, is a mark of a good council.

5) How many officials and party politicians have read "Cyclecraft"? Edinburgh also does a good cycle
design guide, which says in a few pages what needs to be said.

6) Is the council discouraging cycling with land use planning and road design decisions? Whether it
is actively or passively discouraging cycling is a moot point, the effect is the same.

7) Where are meetings held and when?

8) When cyclists think it worthwhile taking a day off work or giving up their spare time from the
other pressing calls on it, then they will get involved with the council.

--
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