Campag athena

ValhallaXP said:

Any idea when Campag Athena was in Production, as im trying to sell a set of Brake Calipers which i got around 2002/2003 , picture as attached

By my recollection, I date the Campagnolo MonoPlanar brake calipers to circa 1986 ... it might have been later.

ValhallaXP said:

Any idea when Campag Athena was in Production, as im trying to sell a set of Brake Calipers which i got around 2002/2003 , picture as attached

About 1985 thru 1994. Became dual pivot in 1995.

According to this, it was '89 to '92

VeloBase.com - View Component Detail

At one stage I had four sets of Athena or Chorus Monoplaners (I could never tell the difference), and they are possibly the worst brakes ever made! 😄 The first day I put dual-pivot brakes on, I nearly went over the bars because I was so used to applying the Campags so hard

531Aussie said:

According to this, it was '89 to '92

VeloBase.com - View Component Detail

At one stage I had four sets of Athena or Chorus Monoplaners (I could never tell the difference), and they are possibly the worst brakes ever made! 😄 The first day I put dual-pivot brakes on, I nearly went over the bars because I was so used to applying the Campags so hard

Yep, not great brakes. 'Monoplaners', first as Chorus then as Athena, had the brake caliper 'arm' go thru the other brake caliper arm. I

531Aussie said:

At one stage I had four sets of Athena or Chorus Monoplaners (I could never tell the difference), and they are possibly the worst brakes ever made! 😄 The first day I put dual-pivot brakes on, I nearly went over the bars because I was so used to applying the Campags so hard

REALLY?

I've still got a pair of MonoPlanar calipers on one of the bikes I ride and I don't really notice a major difference between them & contemporary Campagnolo calipers which couldn't be attributed to the difference in the pads; but, I set my brake pads ~2mm from the rim whereas I know a lot of people apparently like to set them closer and that could make all the difference in the feel, or lack of.

Well, not 'ever', but yeah, I hated them. 🙂 I ended up trading in 3 sets to the local 2nd hand dealer for virtually nothing. The fourth set were early '90s Chorus, which were a bit better than the other three sets, which were older models.

I reckon they were even worse than the single-pivot Shimano 600s I had in the late '80s.

You know, I think I'm with alfeng on this one. I had been riding my old 1990 Simano Dura Ace calipers for many years when sombody told me how much better the new dual-pivot brakes were supposed to be. Well, first of all, as far as I could tell, my DAs where as close to perfect as it gets, and I didn't even think I wanted stronger brakes. I'm not really into going over the bars when I just lightly touch my brakes. Well, sure enough, I tried some newer, fancy-pants dual-pivot brakes, and they were exactly the same as my old brakes. As a matter of fact, if you want to see major differences in "stopping power" switch your brake pads. Anything else is just higher-order noise.

Generally speaking, I think this whole dual-pivot thing is just a silly marketing gimmick, noting that Campagnolo, in fact, went back to single-pivot for the rear brake. That's absolutely the right thing to do, and saves a bit of weight to boot. Why in the world would I need a stronger brake in the rear? So that I have a better chance of blocking my rear wheel and crashing?

In fairness, I took a closer look at the dual-pivot calipers, and it turns out that their arms (where the cable is attached) are a bit shorter than the single-pivot ones used to be. So, yes, you save a few millimeters in the total width of the brake, but who cares...

^ Really? Jee. I reckon dual-pivot brakes are the best thing I've put on my bikes since STI in the early '90s.

I agree that the rear brake does bugger-all (I have mine set to 'ABS', and reckon I could almost do without it), but I have a couple of 'Campag' mates who don't like their new rear brakes being less effective.

Also, the single-pivots were (are?) a little harder to keep centred, which was obviously annoying. The old Chorus calipers I had were particularly troublesome; so much so, I eventually rode with a sawn-off (to cut weight :p) 13mm cone spanner to keep adjusting them

531Aussie said:

^ Really? Jee. I reckon dual-pivot brakes are the best thing I've put on my bikes since STI in the early '90s.

That's probably because you went from crummy single-pivot brakes to decent dual pivot ones. I guarantee you that it is and was possible to build single-pivot brakes that work just as well as any dual-pivot brake you can buy now. And there's no secret about this, either: The physics of these brakes is trivial, and it is quite easy to show that the effect of dual-pivot brakes (of giving you slightly bigger lever arms) is small, and can be easily replicated with single-pivot brakes combined with appropriate brake levers.

Quoted post said:

Also, the single-pivots were (are?) a little harder to keep centred, which was obviously annoying.

Uhmm, the single-pivot brakes I know are all self-centering, so there is nothing to adjust...

531Aussie said:

Also, the single-pivots were (are?) a little harder to keep centred, which was obviously annoying. The old Chorus calipers I had were particularly troublesome; so much so, I eventually rode with a sawn-off (to cut weight :p) 13mm cone spanner to keep adjusting them

This is after-the-fact since you'll probably never have another pair of center pivot brake calipers, but apparently you (or, your mechanic) did not use a STAR WASHER when the brake calipers were mounted ... a star washer will keep the caliper centered.

alfeng said:

but apparently you (or, your mechanic) did not use a STAR WASHER when the brake calipers were mounted ... a star washer will keep the caliper centered.

The single-pivot brakes I know are supposed to be able to rotate around the center bolt. Like I said, these are self-centering.

Dietmar said:

The single-pivot brakes I know are supposed to be able to rotate around the center bolt. Like I said, these are self-centering.

I see we have another failure on my part to communicate ...

Perhaps, 'star washer' is too plebian a word ...

Campagnolo brake calipers are supplied with small washers which have a double-sawtooth edging -- I don't know what Campagnolo calls them. I'm sure the particular Campagnolo thingee costs 10x more than a stamped 'star washer' would cost.

At the moment, I don't recall what Shimano's 'star washer' looks like.

The so-called 'star washer' is inserted between the actual caliper and the frame-or-fork ...

Think back on your DA brake's installation OR look at either your current front-or-rear brake's installation & you will see the fore mentioned thingee, or a variation of one.

The 'star washer' (or, equivalent) anchors the yoke that holds the spring on a single pivot brake & similarly anchors the half-yoke which anchors the spring + outer caliper arm on a dual-pivot caliper. As you noted, the actual arms move freely ...

Without a 'star washer' both a double and a single pivot brake caliper will rotate to some extent as 531Aussie has indicated was his experience.

O.k., maybe this is just me being dense now, but the issue 531Aussie was complaining about, or so I understood, was that he had trouble adjusting those single-pivot brakes so that they are centered.

My point was, in contrast to dual-pivot brakes, there is no such adjustment for single-pivot brakes, since they do not have to, and cannot, be centered manually. This is because the caliper, as a whole, can rotate around the center bolt, so the brake will center intself when the brake is actuated. You only have to make sure the brake is not rubbing slightly on one side when not used. This can happen if the cable housing that goes from the frame to the brake is too long, so that it pushes on the brake, causing it to rotate counterclockwise until the left brake pad will touch the rim.

So, am I missing something here?

you are missing something. the washer that is mentioned above is keep the center axle and spring is a fixed position otherwise one of the brake shoes will always rub against the rim the two arms are free to move but the axle and spring are centered.

Peter@vecchios said:

About 1985 thru 1994. Became dual pivot in 1995.

Yes!
I have a pair of 1996/97 dual-pivot Athena brakes(same design at the time of Chorus). I believe 1997(first year of 9-speed) was the end of Athena as a groupo.

slowbutnotdead said:

you are missing something.

Alright guys, I see now what you guys are saying. I had to go down take a close look at those brakes to remember. Yes, I do have those "star washers", which keep the main stem and spring in a fixed position. The arms can both rotate around that, to a small degree freely, but restricted by the spring being engaged when they rotate more than a few degrees.

Well, all I can say, in the case of those 1990 Dura Ace brakes, they were centered once, when they were installed almost twenty years go. Not too much of a hassle, if you ask me, but YMMV... 😉

Adam-from-SLO said:

Yes!
I have a pair of 1996/97 dual-pivot Athena brakes(same design at the time of Chorus). I believe 1997(first year of 9-speed) was the end of Athena as a groupo.

I don't know when Athena ended as a gruppo, but I have two pair of 9-speed, old-style shifters (i.e., pointy hoods) ... circa 1999.

Ok, in case anyone really cares (:p), this is the model I had some problems keeping centred; and it was more the rear than the front, for some reason.
I bought them in '93 or '94, and the shop guy told me they were Chorus, but I could never tell

For memory, I think it was the outer cable that occasionally pushed the caliper across slightly to the right if it (the cable) moved in the old braze-ons on my old steel frames (pull outer cable from lever to caliper). Sometimes the whole cable would slide in the braze-ons, resulting in too much cable bewteen the caliper and the last braze-on, and I think this would put a little more pressure on the caliper. I always had the bolt very tight. I think I can see one of those spikey washers in there 😄

531Aussie said:

For memory, I think it was the outer cable that occasionally pushed the caliper across slightly to the right if it (the cable) moved in the old braze-ons on my old steel frames (pull outer cable from lever to caliper). Sometimes the whole cable would slide in the braze-ons, resulting in too much cable bewteen the caliper and the last braze-on, and I think this would put a little more pressure on the caliper. I always had the bolt very tight. I think I can see one of those spikey washers in there 😄

I think you've described the cause of the problem of your single-pivot calipers not staying centered & therein the implied solution ... i.e., simply changing the cable housing to one that didn't slide so easily through the braze-ons OR anchoring the housing by wrapping a piece of masking tape around the cable housing IN FRONT of one-or-more of the braze-ons should have kept the housing from slipping & would have solved the problem you had with the calipers not staying centered.