Hitting a Wall

fezzy said:

So I am again hitting that familiar wall at 250ish on my 20 min intervals. Heart rate is consistently in 170s to lower 180s. It would seem like Im running out of room to grow without doing some VO2 to raise the ceiling. What do you guys think? Keep plugging away at zone 3/4, or spend a few weeks on VO2 then get back to the 3/4 stuff.

My weeks have been gradually adding time starting in the beginning of November: Tuesday 2x20-30 / Wednesday 3x12-18 / Thursday 3 10-14. Saturday and Sunday are longer outdoor rides in the high tempo range. Typically 2-3 hours and averaging 220 watts, with a NP in the high 230's. During the week is inside on the rollers. Thanks

Sounds like you have a pretty solid training week going on there - though perhaps I might quibble about the order of some workouts (assuming I have the intensities guessed correctly).

How does your current CTL and FTP compare to historic norms for this time of year and to best-ever levels?

Well, I have only been seriously riding for a year, and I got my PowerTap last December. I was low 200s then, so I have built from basically untrained to moderately trained. In August I think I hit my high point for FTP around 260. I was pretty regularly doing 2x20s in the 270s outdoors for a few weeks before I slowed things down when my wife had our second kid. My CTL is hovering in the low 70s, and hit a peak of 85 last June.

fezzy said:

Well, I have only been seriously riding for a year, and I got my PowerTap last December. I was low 200s then, so I have built from basically untrained to moderately trained. In August I think I hit my high point for FTP around 260. I was pretty regularly doing 2x20s in the 270s outdoors for a few weeks before I slowed things down when my wife had our second kid. My CTL is hovering in the low 70s, and hit a peak of 85 last June.

okay -- I'm curious as to why you chose the term "wall" then? Most folks progress pretty well the first 'few' years of training seriously -- within time constraints etc.

Possibly you're just not being patient enough and giving your current routine time to work? In the past I've stuck with routines for several months at a time -- sometimes hitting plateaus or slight regression for a few weeks - but with the overall trend slowly yet steadily upward. We're not robots - progress isn't linear but it should be apparent over months and years.

Uhm wrt. worrying about your Vo2max ceiling and possibly working in serious L5 work this time of year (N. Hemisphere) - I wouldn't even think about it! Sustainable threshold work lifts all boats ... or something like that!

Agree with Rmur17.

Also, when someone seems to be 'stuck' at a certain power, it sometimes helps to add volume at that level over a few weeks (read as gradually longer intervals, or another rep at the current duration) and then going back to the original volume at a higher power.

In your case it might mean something like working from 2x20 --> 3x20 --> 2x30 --> 2x40 --> 3x30 at 250w, then trying to hit 2x20 at 260-265w.

Unless you're feeling overly tired, I wouldn't worry about it. You've made some nice gains this year, so a slight regression at this stage isn't a deal breaker. As rmur said, it happens to us all at some point.

If you're still in a rut and not progressing in a couple of months then it may be worth a looksie at that wednesday training session. I'm a bit of a hardcase-nutjob when it comes to training but even I don't relish the thought of that unholy trifecta you have on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Maybe swap out those 3x"chewing handlebar" intervals for something else just to change it up a little, like a 2x30 done at a pace you'd find hard but not overly challenging if done for an hour straight.

Personally, I find that if I do too many intervals during the week (no more than two sessions for me please) I start to subconciously back off a little during the efforts which kinda defeats the purpose. If you're a little stale then you may be physically capable of upping the power but mentally just watching the numbers on the PT is all you want to do.

In order to give me other things to think about and stay a little more mentally fresh, I often use the less intense efforts to work on position, like riding on the drops and holding good form, which inturn allows me to become more comfortable and more efficient on the bike. It shifts the focus of the session from being another 'numbers watching' ride whilst still being a useful aerobic workout.

That said, with my gut right now, the only way I could get on the drops whilst on the trainer is if I hung the bars from the ceiling. :eek:

That seems like a lot of L4 for 3 days in a row. Are you doing those effectively? Like, at least 93% threshold? And 3-hours of high tempo Sat. and Sun? How much variation do you have from this schedule? Do you have any scheduled rest weeks? That seems like you're on the fast road to burnout to me, but maybe I need to step my schedule up a bit.🙂

Don't be afraid to mix in some L4 intervals during your longer weekend rides. I think it's important to be able to hit decent numbers on your L4's, if you can't it probably means you need a little break. A break doesn't mean you can't do tempo, or lower (heaven forbid!). Sometimes if you want to get different results, you need to have a different approach.

As far as hitting 270 on the road and 250 on the trainer, there's been quite a few threads regarding this topic. Lower power on the trainer is normal. My last 20 minute effort on the road was 323 and I haven't yet been able to break 300 indoors. I'm not scared though, it's the same pattern I've had for the last 3 years.

This is just my experience, I'm still learning too.