Live on the CompuTrainer...

Hi Quentin, I know totally Off Topic but as you have a CT and as I might get to the UK - but not within reasonable time frame to the US - how did you get that and how much was it?

And be sure, I'll be watching you rather sooner than later. Maybe while I'm on my Turbo as the weather gets nastier every day and it'll be that time of the year again.

Hi BW

bigwillie013 said:

Hi Quentin, I know totally Off Topic but as you have a CT and as I might get to the UK - but not within reasonable time frame to the US - how did you get that and how much was it? And be sure, I'll be watching you rather sooner than later. Maybe while I'm on my Turbo as the weather gets nastier every day and it'll be that time of the year again.

I bought mine through the UK distributor about 18 months or so ago and paid I think about £1250 for it, I have never once regretted buying it and I also bought a couple of extras at the same time. I bought the Lab Pro version which is a bit more expensive, a mate of mine also bought one direct from The States and it shipped very quickly and he saved a bit I believe. I bought from the UK distributor for "peace of mind" - rightly or wrongly.

Yes, drop in in the training, some time when you fancy a laugh! 😄

Cheers,

Q

I'll watch when you do 1x60 at 300 watts. 😄 😎

Porkyboy said:

Hi BW

I bought mine through the UK distributor about 18 months or so ago and paid I think about £1250 for it, I have never once regretted buying it and I also bought a couple of extras at the same time.
You wouldn't mind getting the online shop adress over to me?
Yes, drop in in the training, some time when you fancy a laugh! 😄
Laugh??? Now, as I know how I feel it won't be laughing but realizing how I will look like (like it or not for myself 😄 )
Cheers,

Q

Keep it up, Dude!😎

Hi BW

bigwillie013 said:

Keep it up, Dude!😎

Have PM'd you the information you need. Thanks for the encouragement, much appreciated!

Cheers,

PBUK

Hi Strader

strader said:

I'll watch when you do 1x60 at 300 watts. 😄 😎

I'm working on it, looks like you're a little way off too from recent postings, keep at it!

Cheers,

PBUK

Porkyboy said:

I'll be doing a 2x20 SST (currently 270W) session.

2x20 is NOT SST...

SST is 60-90mins @ upper L3 to lower L4 range...

g

Hi

gregclimbs said:

2x20 is NOT SST... SST is 60-90mins @ upper L3 to lower L4 range...
g

I don't want to get into a protracted argument over this as we all have our own reasons for doing things in different ways but I fundamentally disagree with you in spite of your use of extra capitals to emphasise your point. I'll explain why I do not agree with you.

It is well known that SST is a definition of training intensity which is generally felt to lie at or about 88-94% of FTP. As a definition of intensity it is completely independent of the length of an effort or the number of efforts. Sweet Spot Training could therefore involve intervals of any length that anyone wished to use, it is a purely personal matter. Similarly L5 intervals may be 4 minutes long when performed by one person and 7 by another, they are still L5 intervals.

In terms of the number and length of efforts, even though personal, I believe that the 2x20 approach is a reasonable one, certainly for someone of my modest abilities, and is based on what I believe to be sound advice.

I believe that the excellent book "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan is generally accepted as a good guide to training with power. The section covering SST describes a typical SST workout for a rider who is a Cat III racer who has an FTP of 290W, I'll not retype the whole thing but here is an extract covering the key section of the workout, after the warmup:

"He would then do 2 efforts of 20 minutes each with his watts at a range of 255-272 (88-94% of threshold power). It is critical for him to stay in this range as best he can..."

This to me is clear guidance from an extremely reputable source suggesting exactly the workout I do, it is a 2x20, unless I've missed something.

As a rider becomes fitter and stronger he or she may wish to do more of these intervals but the advice in the book I refer to suggests that an average Cat III racer should not need to do more than 2x20 minute efforts, this may of course not apply to you but does apply to many.

So, that's my position and how I have arrived at it and I'm satisfied with the sources of information and guidance I have used. I think the statement you made is entirely fallacious and potentially very misleading, I would be interested to know which reference material you are using when arriving at your definitions.

Regards.

PBUK

Porkyboy said:

Hi

FWIW, the origins of 2x20 is 2x20 @ 95-105% FTP with minimal rest between - the "rest" intended to be for a mental break (especially on a trainer).

The origins of SST is 60-90mins @ 85-95% of FTP.

Both workouts discussed at length on the wattage list.

I was unaware that Hunter (who wrote the training section, is a friend and at one point my coach) had modified those workouts in the book. I have it, but didn't read that part closely since it mattered little to me as I am a coach as well...

That said, sure, a 2x20 @ 85-95 will help your training, but if you perform them as originally intended, you will see better gains to be had. Same with SST.

I guess I should yell at Hunter for muddling the nomeclature, not you 😉

g

Porkyboy said:

Hi

Not strictly a Power Training post I guess but it might be a bit of fun for a few folks here and I am using a power training device I guess! 😉

I'll be webcasting live on my CompuTrainer this morning, I'll be doing a 2x20 SST (currently 270W) session. If you fancy dropping in check out my weblog (link in signature) and scroll down to the foot of the page to the stream viewer.

The webcast will start at 10:00 BST (GMT +1), drop in and enjoy someone else suffering for a change! :eek:

Hope everyone is well, keep it fun.

Cheers,

PBUK

Interesting thread. Wondering if your usage of the word "suffering" was accurate or just used for effect. IMO, you shouldn't be suffering during an SST interval lasting 20 minutes. Perhaps I shouldn't be taking this literally??

Hi

gregclimbs said:

FWIW, the origins of 2x20 is 2x20 @ 95-105% FTP with minimal rest between - the "rest" intended to be for a mental break (especially on a trainer).

The origins of SST is 60-90mins @ 85-95% of FTP.

Both workouts discussed at length on the wattage list.

I was unaware that Hunter (who wrote the training section, is a friend and at one point my coach) had modified those workouts in the book. I have it, but didn't read that part closely since it mattered little to me as I am a coach as well...

That said, sure, a 2x20 @ 85-95 will help your training, but if you perform them as originally intended, you will see better gains to be had. Same with SST.

I guess I should yell at Hunter for muddling the nomeclature, not you 😉

g

Interesting. When you next see him I'd be interested to know why things have been changed as our physiology hasn't! On the face of it what's in the book is now suggesting a workout which is less effective than that previously advised?

Cheers,

PBUK

Hi TZ

tonyzackery said:

Interesting thread. Wondering if your usage of the word "suffering" was accurate or just used for effect. IMO, you shouldn't be suffering during an SST interval lasting 20 minutes. Perhaps I shouldn't be taking this literally??

Take the use of "suffering" with a sack of salt, like lots of things cyclists say 🙂

Cheers,

PBUK

Hi

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you but I had some threshold work to do in the meantime 😉 I'm also sorry I didn't have the webcam on for you to enjoy!

strader said:

I'll watch when you do 1x60 at 300 watts. 😄 😎

Anyway, ran a .erg file today on the VeloTron with a 60 minute L4 effort @ 300W to see how far I'd get riding at 300W for real rather than doing a 20 minute test and extrapolating the results. Pleased to get to the end but could certainly have either kept going or ridden the 60 mins at a higher load, happy with the outcome, wanted to see if I could do it!

Hope you'll accept the graph as evidence in the absence of a webcast!

Cheers,

PBUK

Congrats! Well done! And apparently, you weren't "suffering"...🙂

Hi TZ

tonyzackery said:

Congrats! Well done! And apparently, you weren't "suffering"...🙂

Thank you, very much appreciated, a modest performance in comparison with your extraordinary outputs but I was really pleased.

Thank you again.

PB

Porkyboy said:

Hi

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you but I had some threshold work to do in the meantime 😉 I'm also sorry I didn't have the webcam on for you to enjoy!

Anyway, ran a .erg file today on the VeloTron with a 60 minute L4 effort @ 300W to see how far I'd get riding at 300W for real rather than doing a 20 minute test and extrapolating the results. Pleased to get to the end but could certainly have either kept going or ridden the 60 mins at a higher load, happy with the outcome, wanted to see if I could do it!

Hope you'll accept the graph as evidence in the absence of a webcast!

Cheers,

PBUK

that looks smooth! I'll throw in a screenshot of my religious Sunday evening 40k attempt on the CT. Sometimes, I mess up the pacing and don't make it to the end but last week I kept it under control 😄

Hi Rick

rmur17 said:

that looks smooth! I'll throw in a screenshot of my religious Sunday evening 40k attempt on the CT. Sometimes, I mess up the pacing and don't make it to the end but last week I kept it under control 😄

Truly frightening, but I already knew that! However, I remain pleased with my modest achievements 🙂 Still can't quite work out how anyone can pedal that hard!

Cheers,

PBUK

Porkyboy said:

Hi Rick

Truly frightening, but I already knew that! However, I remain pleased with my modest achievements 🙂 Still can't quite work out how anyone can pedal that hard!

Cheers,

PBUK

I'm heavy - that's the main reason! I'll fully admit I was quite pleased with that for a Sunday evening w/o on -30tsb (910 Tss2 load last wk).

Some day I hope for a nice even AP # for that workout 🙂 but ... we shall see ... patience is a virtue.

Remember in fall.2002 I was on ~300-303W for such a workout and that was likely on fresher legs! Maybe we should be selling Computrainers!

Sounds like a couple of guys here need to get on the 2009 FTP list.