Calfee Cross

Mister C said:

Been looking at getting a new cyclocross bike and am having a hard time pulling the trigger. I have done a bunch of test riding including Cannondale Optimo, Specialized TriCross, Lemond Poprad and a Calfee Cross.

In terms of ride quality the Calfee cross wins hands down. I found aluminum frames too harsh even with a carbon fork and seat stay (the Tricross was an older S works aluminum frame with those carbon bits). Suffice it to say that I have fallen in love with carbon frames due to the ride quality.

I am not looking to race. The reason I chose cyclocross bikes is that I wanted a bit more upright posture, beefier frame for hopping curbs and rough trails and cantilever brakes that admit wider tires. Most of my riding is on kinda rough bike trails (long commute) but I also like hitting the roads on the weekends and doing a few centuries a year.

Bike I am looking at is a 2 year old demo model with full Ultegra build and the Calfee carbon fork and Mavic Open Pro wheels. This model still has canti brakes (newer ones have disc brakes).

LBS is asking $3600. I am hoping to negotiate a little better deal but am unsure how much the shop will move. Seem like a fair price? Any other suggestions in terms of bikes?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

A Calfee, like many boutique brands, would be a very nice bike to have, but ...

FWIW. For a two year old bike sitting in a shop with wheels you don't want + a component group that will be superseded in October ... $2000-to-$2400 if it is absolutely the right size (i.e., ~2cm smaller than your current road frame which will hopefully have the right fit for you).

What headset does it have?

What handlebars/stem does it have -- standard size or OS?

What hubs are on the wheels?

Most "real" CX frames do not have water bottle bosses -- does the Calfee have them OR is it a gentleman's CX frame?

BTW. It isn't the cantilevers which allow you to use fatter tires, it is the dimensions of the frame's rear stays & the fork. If you had a pre-1985 Italian "racing" bike, the odds are fairly high that you could mount 700x30/32 tires in the frame & fork.

Even if you think that $3600 is a fair price (what would a NEW Calfee cost with NEW, soon-to-be-released 2009 Shimano components and/or without the wheels which you apparently don't want?), to ensure that you really want a more upright riding position you should probably mount a shorter stem and/or different handlebars on (one of) your current road bike(s), first, AND ride your/(that) road bike for a while with the cockpit dimensions that you think you will be getting if you were to actually buy the Calfee or any other CX frame/bike. So, spend $50-or-less on a new stem (heck, $10 should get you a good-enough-used stem that is only going to be a temporary component on your current road bike).

CURB HOPPING?!? For a bike that is suitable for the kind of riding you're describing (and, this is JUST an opinion), I would look at something like the multi-speed version of the RALEIGH XXIX & possibly buy/build a second-or-third wheelset for different riding conditions because the total weight of a 29er should only be a secondary factor since you won't need to lift the bike over obstacles on a race course.

Even 700x30 may seem too narrow on some rougher gravel roads.

FYI. Although 29ers are sold/marketed as alternatives to MTBs with 26" wheels, a 29ers may be thought of as a grown up "hybrid" bike OR as a CX bike which can handle 700x58 tires & often with a suspension front fork (some have solid forks) ... a 29er with a full suspension would result in dead weight for the type of riding you are planning on doing, BTW ...

If I were going to pony up for a Calfee for the kind of riding you described, I'd have Calfee build a custom frame (well, almost are all custom) which which has the capacity for 700x58 tires.

Thanks very much for the detailed response Alfeng.

The bike fits me very well. I have test ridden it several times now. I only need to change the barstem and I have that nailed down already.

As far as price a new custom Calfee breaks down as follows
$2150 frame (with cross option and accomidating 35mm tires)
450 Calfee carbon fork
135 King headset
1200 Ultegra build kit excelsports.comnew.aspOpen ↗
250 labor to build
total = $4185

So a savings of about $585 with roughly equivalent parts. I may be missing something in the list though. Not a big savings I realize which is probably why I am hesitating. If I can get the LBS down a few more hundred it would be much more attactive.

The bike I am looking at also has a King headset. I am unsure about the hubs but I would assume the standard hubs for Mavic open pros. The bar is a middling aluminum bar but dont rembember the brand.

This is a gentleman's cross with a water bottle boss.

I took a quick look at the RALEIGH XXIXRALEIGH XXIX that you mentioned. It appears to be a 29er with a front suspension fork and flat bar none of which atract me. I don't think that would be a good bike for roads and centuries.

Most of the gravel I see is crushed limestone (e.g. Allegheny Highlands trail) or a little bit rougher (e.g. C&O canal). I have run 25mm tires on those with no real handling issues. For a longer trek I would likely fit something wider for comfort.

I guess I am wavering between the LBS bike or a full custom build. I am pretty much at my spending limit now. A mere $585 difference leans me toward saving more money and getting a full custom. If I can widen the gap a bit then I may go with the LBS bike. Decisions..decisions

Mister C said:

Thanks very much for the detailed response Alfeng.

The bike fits me very well. I have test ridden it several times now. I only need to change the barstem and I have that nailed down already.

As far as price a new custom Calfee breaks down as follows
$2150 frame (with cross option and accomidating 35mm tires)
450 Calfee carbon fork
135 King headset
1200 Ultegra build kit excelsports.comnew.aspOpen ↗
250 labor to build
total = $4185

So a savings of about $585 with roughly equivalent parts. I may be missing something in the list though. Not a big savings I realize which is probably why I am hesitating. If I can get the LBS down a few more hundred it would be much more attactive.

The bike I am looking at also has a King headset. I am unsure about the hubs but I would assume the standard hubs for Mavic open pros. The bar is a middling aluminum bar but dont rembember the brand.

This is a gentleman's cross with a water bottle boss.

I took a quick look at the RALEIGH XXIXRALEIGH XXIX that you mentioned. It appears to be a 29er with a front suspension fork and flat bar none of which atract me. I don't think that would be a good bike for roads and centuries.

Most of the gravel I see is crushed limestone (e.g. Allegheny Highlands trail) or a little bit rougher (e.g. C&O canal). I have run 25mm tires on those with no real handling issues. For a longer trek I would likely fit something wider for comfort.

I guess I am wavering between the LBS bike or a full custom build. I am pretty much at my spending limit now. A mere $585 difference leans me toward saving more money and getting a full custom. If I can widen the gap a bit then I may go with the LBS bike. Decisions..decisions

With the understanding that what I am telling you is just my opinion:

The first thing you have to deduct from the list is the $250 fee for assembling the bike! The shop built the bike already for SOMEONE, and s/he already paid the shop to build it up + possibly a 10-to-20 percent penalty for not taking delivery ... or else, the shop built it as a spec bike that no one has wanted to buy in the past two years.

[indent]$1400 ... value of the DEMO frame, maybe ... closer to $1200, or less!

$450 ... if I were going to pay anything approaching $450 for a new fork, it would be an Alpha Q ... does Calfee even lay up his own forks? Figure $250 on the generous side.

$100 ... USED Chris King headset ... generously. Really, only $85.

$650 ... NEW Ultegra build kit, from mail most order

$250 ... variable combine for Bars/stem/saddle/seatpost ...

$250 ... wheels from someplace like Colorado Cyclist ...

---------

$3100 tops. ... closer to $2700 if you are feeling generous.

[/indent]With regard to the RALEIGH XXIX, or any other 29er -- not to state the obvious, but you CAN change the handlebars/stem & shifters for a few hundred to whatever you think you want to pay (apparently, you have been targeted as someone who thinks bust-out retail is the right price to pay!) + different tires and/or another wheelset + cassette + tires for the tamer roadways.

Personally, if I were hot for a new, sometimes off-road bike, I would get the single-speed RALEIGH XXIX plus the replaceable rear dropout with a derailleur hanger and then add the road components of MY choice (i.e., mostly Campagnolo) ... so, about $700 (retail?) for the RALEIGH + $600-to-$1500 for the various Campagnolo parts & some drop handlebars & handlebar tape +/- $250-to-$650 (depending on the hubs) for an extra set of wheels & tires.

Check with (call) COLORADO CYCLIST to see if they are still carrying the REDLINE CONQUEST (or, similar CX bikes ... I don't have their current catalog) and ask them how much a REDLINE CONQUEST equipped with Ultegra components will cost ... probably, around $2400+. I would use that as the benchmark for comparison -- non-sponsored CX riders overwhelmingly seem to choose the REDLINE CONQUEST because of apparent value.

Which CX frames does EXCEL currently have in their inventory?

I think that a titanium HABENERO CX frame (no fork, AFAIK) only costs around $1200 ... you'd have to look it up.

I don't know how much the COLNAGO or PINARELLO cyclocross framesets currently cost, but I reckon they are under $2500 ... and, if that was what I was going to pay (still less than what you are essentially be charged), then those are two of the more expensive cyclocross frames I would build up.

I had a FORT CX frameset ... but, decided it was one size too large, so I sold it. FORT is made in Czechoslovakia, arguably the heart of CX racing. It retailed for less than $1000. I sold it for under $200 because it was USED ... probably, not any more than the Calfee was DEMO'd ... USED bike stuff depreciates faster than a NEW car becomes a USED car when it rolls 10 feet away from the car dealer's lot.

I don't know how else I can dissuade you from the Calfee at that price ... so, if you're still keen to buy it then I hope you can get at least another $500 ($1000 less would be better, IMO) knocked off the current asking price.

Alfeng,

Thanks again for your detailed response. I appreciate your time and opinion.

Sorry for the confusion on the price list. The detailed price list is for a brand new build from new Calfee frame.

Also, the fork is an Alpha Q not a Calfee fork. The build kit is also pretty complete and includes wheels, saddle, bar, stem, and seatpost. With a new build with mail order parts I would expect to pay a shop to build it up for me.

Yeah, I realize I could swap out components on a Raleigh XXIX or other 29er. I should probably give one a spin to confirm/deny my initial impression.

I sold my roadbike so this new bike needs to do double duty. So, a single speed (and probably a 29er) won't really work for me. I still have an old Volpe with panniers for light touring, hauling and when I am at risk for having my bike stolen.

I had not considered the Habenero CX and probably should. Thanks for the tip.

You are doing a pretty good job at persuding me not to buy that demo bike (unless they come way down in price). I am now leaning pretty strongly towards a new custom Calfee. Frankly, I would like to lower the bottom bracket height a smidge anyhow (and add lugs for a rack) as well as get the disc brakes that come with the new models.

All the best,
Mister C

Mister C said:

Alfeng,

Thanks again for your detailed response. I appreciate your time and opinion.

Sorry for the confusion on the price list. The detailed price list is for a brand new build from new Calfee frame.

Also, the fork is an Alpha Q not a Calfee fork. The build kit is also pretty complete and includes wheels, saddle, bar, stem, and seatpost. With a new build with mail order parts I would expect to pay a shop to build it up for me.

Yeah, I realize I could swap out components on a Raleigh XXIX or other 29er. I should probably give one a spin to confirm/deny my initial impression.

I sold my roadbike so this new bike needs to do double duty. So, a single speed (and probably a 29er) won't really work for me. I still have an old Volpe with panniers for light touring, hauling and when I am at risk for having my bike stolen.

I had not considered the Habenero CX and probably should. Thanks for the tip.

You are doing a pretty good job at persuding me not to buy that demo bike (unless they come way down in price). I am now leaning pretty strongly towards a new custom Calfee. Frankly, I would like to lower the bottom bracket height a smidge anyhow (and add lugs for a rack) as well as get the disc brakes that come with the new models.

All the best,
Mister C

Oh, maybe this is stating something that is too obvious -- a BIANCHI Volpe IS basically a CX bike with fender/rack eyelets ...

Between now & if/when you order a new bike, you should think about some simple component upgrades which will knock two-or-three pounds off the Volpe (before you put the panniers back on!) ... a rejuvenated Volpe may fit the bill (unless you've just got a hankering to spend your "government stimulus check"😉 for a more satisfactory, all-around bike ... [indent]A carbon fiber fork will take at least a pound off the bike ... but, I wouldn't change the steel fork unless it was damaged.

An XT rear derailleur & Campagnolo shifters will probably reduce the weight by more than four ounces. You would use the hubbub.com alternate rear derailleur cable anchoring to mate a 10-speed Campagnolo shifters with an otherwise 9-speed Shimano drivetrain.

Different wheels could easily be a pound lighter than the wheelset you've got on the Volpe.

A different crank & BB could be a few ounces lighter.

Changing the stem could be a few more ounces off the bike.

[/indent]It all adds up ... but, while your Volpe will never be as light as the Calfee, you could make it so your Volpe weighs only a couple of pounds more than the Calfee would weigh.

Most of the components you might upgrade your Volpe with could migrate to a Habenero/other frame at some point in the future.

BTW. Most CX frames have 130mm rear spacing ... a 29er will have 135mm rear spacing.

So, beyond the REAR FRAME SPACING, a COSMETIC REASON not to use a 29er as the basis for a multi-purpose off-and-on-road bike would be ...

• if you prefer a horizontal top tube, you'll prefer a CX frame
  

But, if you prefer a sloping top tube, you may prefer a 29er.

FOR YOUR REFERENCE: The attached pic is a bike I cobbled together with some spare ROAD parts that I had -- it vaguely approximates how a hardtail 29er might look with some road tires & drop bars -- it is a MTB frame that has a ROAD fork (no doubt, it is the only hardtail with a Campy headset ... it 'belongs' to the Alpha Q fork that I chose to use!) & 700c wheels. A 29er frame would have a lower BB shell and the headtube would be higher (because of the non-road fork).

Lots of good food for thought Alfeng. You have been quite helpful.

Yes, I realize the Volpe is essentially a CX bike with fender/rack eyelets. It is pretty much of a beater bike though and not in the best of shape. I bought it on the cheap as a backup bike and for when I travel to high theft risk areas and for hauling stuff around. I am unsure if I want to invest in component upgrades on it. Still, your suggestions are good ones that I will think about more.

Frankly, it is the ride quality of a carbon frame that I am after with the Calfee. I was shocked at the difference. On long (and even short harsh) rides my hands really suffer.

Thanks for the pic. I like the build you achieved.

I went to the LBS last night to try and negotiate a deal on the Calfee. Owner wouln't budge an inch. So I am definitely passing on it. The steering tube has been cut too short for me anyhow on that bike and replacing it just doesn't make any sense economically (even if the base deal were good which it isn't)

I am looking into a custom Calfee now. The standard geometry frame has a top tube that I think is a bit too short for me (I have a long torso) and I would like to lower the bottom bracket a bit, and add rack eyelets. Yeah, I am essentialy creating a CX/touring frame but I can be assured of a bike that fits exactly and has everything I really want. If I am going to spend that much money the bike just has to be perfect.

All the best,

Mister C