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7 Speed Wheel?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
24 June 2008
Last activity
25 June 2008
Original author
Hell And High Water
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  1. I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.

    Looking to upgrade my wheels.

    I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
    needs to change to a cassette. Right?

    So, when looking at wheels, how can I tell if a given wheel is going to
    be compatible. (I understand the frame may need to be stretched a bit.
    That should be OK as it's a fairly old steel frame.)

    Also, what about the spacing on the front wheel? Any modifications
    required there?

    LBS is recommending a set of Easton wheels for about $280, but I don't
    have any other details. (That was just a very brief discussion)

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    -Bianchi Bob

  2. "Hell And High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
    Looking to upgrade my wheels.
    I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
    needs to change to a cassette. Right?

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change? Aside from the fact that the
    stuff you have wears very slowly, the newer stuff hasn't gained a whole lot
    other than more speeds. Yes, you seldom get a broken axle on a cassette
    wheel, but the more modern, narrower cogs wear out a lot faster. And you
    need to get chains that wear faster and you have to change the cranks
    because the 7-speed spacing between the chain rings is wide enough for your
    9 or 10 speed chain to fit between them and stick.

    All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
    freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long flat
    rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
    interchange them.

    Quoted message said:

    So, when looking at wheels, how can I tell if a given wheel is going to
    be compatible. (I understand the frame may need to be stretched a bit.
    That should be OK as it's a fairly old steel frame.)

    5-speed spacing was 120 mm 6 and 7-speed spacing in the rear is 126 mm. 8
    and up speed spacing is 130 mm on road bikes and 135 mm on mountain bikes.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, what about the spacing on the front wheel? Any modifications
    required there?

    Front wheels are the same as from the early days - 120 mm.

    Quoted message said:

    LBS is recommending a set of Easton wheels for about $280, but I don't
    have any other details. (That was just a very brief discussion)

    I suppose that means that your old set of wheels is worn out. It does
    happen. However, one of the problems with "modern" wheels is that they have
    a low spoke count. That ain't so hot. Aside from the fact that the rims need
    to be heavier in order to support the lower spoke count, you can do things
    that used to be hard to impossible - for instance I stuck my foot in between
    the front spokes on a low spoke count wheel a month ago at 30 mph down a
    steep hill. Long story but not a very nice one. If it was the old days I'd
    have 36 spokes and my foot couldn't have gotten in there.

    The upshot of this is that for that amount of money you can have another
    7-speed set built. Remember that there are still plenty of good
    new/old-stock hubs around for 7speed stuff and there are still a lot of new
    or almost new freewheels around. Of course you need to buy high quality
    stuff in order to prevent broken axles whereas you can use cheap junk for
    cassette hubs since the bearings are outboard the cassette.

  3. On Jun 24, 3:17 pm, Hell And High Water <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.

    Looking to upgrade my wheels.

    I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel.  That
    needs to change to a cassette.  Right?

    What's wrong with what ya got? If you simply want lighter and more
    aero--building some custom wheels with traditional freewheel 7spd hubs
    and light parts to fit your bike would be the way to go instead of
    making your bike fit the pre-built components, IMHO.

  4. Tom Kunich said:

    "Hell And High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
    Looking to upgrade my wheels.
    I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
    needs to change to a cassette. Right?

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change? Aside from the fact that the
    stuff you have wears very slowly, the newer stuff hasn't gained a whole lot
    other than more speeds. Yes, you seldom get a broken axle on a cassette
    wheel, but the more modern, narrower cogs wear out a lot faster. And you
    need to get chains that wear faster and you have to change the cranks
    because the 7-speed spacing between the chain rings is wide enough for your
    9 or 10 speed chain to fit between them and stick.

    All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
    freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long flat
    rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
    interchange them.

    Nonsense.

    Get a 39-52 and a 12-28 and you have enough range to do just about
    anything; and if you really need it you can get 11-34 (and bigger in front,
    too).

  5. "_" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Kunich said:

    All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
    freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long
    flat
    rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
    interchange them.

    Nonsense.

    Get a 39-52 and a 12-28 and you have enough range to do just about
    anything; and if you really need it you can get 11-34 (and bigger in
    front,
    too).

    Not everyone wants to have a wide ratio gear system. While I'd be perfectly
    comfortable with your choice many wouldn't.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,
    cyclintom@yahoo. says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change?

    The LBS mentioned several things:

    New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
    old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels. Spin easier/etc.

    On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
    that's a word.)

    My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
    not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
    more problematic.

    I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.

    Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
    derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.

    Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC. Seems to work in
    just about all situations. (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)

    Thanks for the info and thoughts!

    -Bob

    Quoted message said:
  7. On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    cyclintom@yahoo. says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change?

    The LBS mentioned several things:

    New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
    old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.

    Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
    will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
    smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
    usually lighter than traditional looking.

    Quoted message said:

    Spin easier/etc.

    More BS.

    Quoted message said:


    On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed.  Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
    that's a word.)

    Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
    and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
    enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.

    Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
    front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

    Quoted message said:


    My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
    not fixable.  He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
    more problematic.

    Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
    make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

    Quoted message said:

    I have (IIRC) Araya rims?  Avaya?  somesuch.

    Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
    wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
    you say they're true enough....

    Quoted message said:


    Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
    derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.

    Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC.  Seems to work in
    just about all situations.   (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)

    Thanks for the info and thoughts!

    -Bob

    I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
    they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
    axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
    cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

  8. landotter said:

    On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    cyclintom@yahoo. says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change?


    The LBS mentioned several things:

    New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
    old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.

    Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
    will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
    smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
    usually lighter than traditional looking.

    Quoted message said:

    Spin easier/etc.

    More BS.

    Quoted message said:

    On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
    that's a word.)

    Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
    and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
    enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.

    Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
    front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

    Quoted message said:

    My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
    not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
    more problematic.

    Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
    make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

    Quoted message said:

    I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.

    Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
    wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
    you say they're true enough....

    Quoted message said:

    Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
    derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.

    Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC. Seems to work in
    just about all situations. (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)

    Thanks for the info and thoughts!

    -Bob

    I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
    they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
    axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
    cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

    OP has Araya steel rims, so changing to even a basic aluminum wheel will
    have pretty good value for him. Better braking in front would be the
    most significant aspect I think. If they are 27-inch, about $40~$50 per.
    Moving the present freewheel to a new wheel makes more sense usually
    than going cassette since he has not had axle trouble to here.

    Shop's prep on a basic wheel can vary from 'conscientious' to 'just tear
    off the label' and that matters too.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  9. "landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    cyclintom@yahoo. says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you haven't been breaking axles why change?

    The LBS mentioned several things:

    New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
    old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.

    Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
    will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
    smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
    usually lighter than traditional looking.

    Wait a minute - chances are that his shop is being up front with him. He
    just has some old junky or very worn wheels and they would cause any shop to
    say the same thing. And if that shop doesn't have anyone that builds wheels
    it is much easier for them to buy them. The wheels they're recommending
    aren't junk you know. And the price isn't outrageous.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Spin easier/etc.

    More BS.

    Well, the new wheels would definitely spin better than old wheels with bad
    bearings to begin with. I don't know how long you've been riding but I
    remember when you bought hand made wheels and the difference between them
    and "stock" wheels could not only be felt but heard.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
    that's a word.)

    Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings.

    They are referred to as sealed bearings though they usually only have a seal
    on the outside.

    Quoted message said:

    Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
    front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

    Or less. And yes, if you know what to do you can make an old set of wheels
    last a long time. But what if his old wheels are some of those $50/set
    specials like used to hang in bike shops back in the 80's?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
    not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
    more problematic.

    Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
    make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

    While I agree that he probably would rather sell a new set than try to fix
    and old set there's a good possibility that there's more than enough reason
    to put new wheels in.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.

    Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
    wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
    you say they're true enough.

    Araya rims were made in all sorts of quality but the aftermarket rims were
    usually higher quality.

    Quoted message said:

    I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
    they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
    axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
    cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

    Look, this guy obviously can't judge a good wheel from a bad. My suspicion
    is that his bike shop is just being up front with him. Though I think it
    would be nice to get a second opinion, nevertheless a good set of wheels is
    paramount to having a good ride.

  10. A Muzi said:
    landotter said:

    On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    cyclintom@yahoo. says...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > If you haven't been breaking axles why change?
    The LBS mentioned several things:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
    old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.

    Quoted message said:

    Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
    will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
    smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
    usually  lighter than traditional looking.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Spin easier/etc.

    Quoted message said:

    More BS.

    Quoted message said:

    On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed.  Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
    that's a word.)

    Quoted message said:

    Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
    and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
    enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.

    Quoted message said:

    Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
    front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
    not fixable.  He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get moreand
    more problematic.

    Quoted message said:

    Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
    make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have (IIRC) Araya rims?  Avaya?  somesuch.

    Quoted message said:

    Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
    wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
    you say they're true enough....

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
    derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC.  Seems to workin
    just about all situations.   (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault....)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for the info and thoughts!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    -Bob

    Quoted message said:

    I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
    they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
    axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
    cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

    OP has Araya steel rims, so changing to even a basic aluminum wheel will
    have pretty good value for him. Better braking in front would be the
    most significant aspect I think. If they are 27-inch, about $40~$50 per.
    Moving the present freewheel to a new wheel makes more sense usually
    than going cassette since he has not had axle trouble to here.

    Shop's prep on a basic wheel can vary from 'conscientious' to 'just tear
    off the label' and that matters too.

    I assumed that they were mistakenly called steel until I read more
    carefully. Araya did make steel rims--I was thinking of the sad single
    wall aluminum road rims, of which I've got a few examples. Indeed--a
    mass market freewheel wheel with a bit of attention in the truing
    stand should be perfectly serviceable for $50.

    However, for the same price as as the fancy wheels the LBS suggested,
    someone from the group might be able to build a more appropriate
    set...

  11. "Hell And High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.

    -Bianchi Bob

    Bob: what is specifically wrong with your old wheels? First order of
    business is to check the rims. If a magnet sticks to them, then they are
    steel, and should be shipped immediately to the landfill. Steel rims are
    such an obvious indicator of low quality, that no further evaluation is
    required. They are heavy, weak, and scary dangerous in the rain.

    Second, if you already have decent alloy rims, then have the shop check (and
    show you) if you have excessive brake pad wear on the rims, or the rims have
    flat spots from impacts. If this test is passed, then check for:
    - hub bearings rough?
    - freewheel cogs worn out?
    - need different gearing (better climbing gears)?
    All of the above can be fixed - a lot easier and cheaper than getting new
    wheels. If you get new wheels, there is a good chance you will have to bend
    your frame to get the new rear wheel in the stays. And you may have to
    change out your shifters if you are going to a different number of speeds
    than what you already have (as in 8 or 9 speeds.)

    BTW: if you must get new wheels, stick with hubs from Shimano. Shimano
    cassette hubs are excellent. Cartridge bearings, usually misrepresented as
    'sealed bearings' are used in hubs by small-fry manufacturers because they
    lack the tooling, manufacturing size or necessary patents to use a proper
    hub design and components. Otherwise, 2 years from now, you're be hunting
    through every bike shop in town for some obscure cartridge bearing, or an
    impossible to find non-Shimano replacement freehub body.

  12. Dave Mayer said:

    "Hell And High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.

    -Bianchi Bob

    Bob: what is specifically wrong with your old wheels? First order of
    business is to check the rims. If a magnet sticks to them, then they are
    steel, and should be shipped immediately to the landfill. Steel rims are
    such an obvious indicator of low quality, that no further evaluation is
    required. They are heavy, weak, and scary dangerous in the rain.

    Second, if you already have decent alloy rims, then have the shop check (and
    show you) if you have excessive brake pad wear on the rims, or the rims have
    flat spots from impacts. If this test is passed, then check for:
    - hub bearings rough?
    - freewheel cogs worn out?
    - need different gearing (better climbing gears)?
    All of the above can be fixed - a lot easier and cheaper than getting new
    wheels. If you get new wheels, there is a good chance you will have to bend
    your frame to get the new rear wheel in the stays. And you may have to
    change out your shifters if you are going to a different number of speeds
    than what you already have (as in 8 or 9 speeds.)

    BTW: if you must get new wheels, stick with hubs from Shimano. Shimano
    cassette hubs are excellent.

    true. except in heavy rain. i've found their road hubs to be problematic.

    Quoted message said:

    Cartridge bearings, usually misrepresented as
    'sealed bearings'

    some are indeed sealed. mavic. phil. but many, as you suggest, are not.

    Quoted message said:

    are used in hubs by small-fry manufacturers because they
    lack the tooling,

    untrue. cartridge bearings are a great way to get a quality result.
    the usual bleating about needing bearings that support lateral load is
    underinformed. the lateral loading on the typical deep groove bearing
    cartridge as exerted by a bike wheel is well within tolerance.

    Quoted message said:

    manufacturing size or necessary patents to use a proper
    hub design and components.

    untrue. ever used a cheapo suzue hub with it's "proper hub design and
    components"? i'll take a cartridge bearing over that [censored] any day.

    Quoted message said:

    Otherwise, 2 years from now, you're be hunting
    through every bike shop in town for some obscure cartridge bearing,

    untrue. i've never yet seen a cartridge bearing on a bike hub that's
    not a standard series bearing available at any bearing supplier.

    Quoted message said:

    or an
    impossible to find non-Shimano replacement freehub body.

    unless it's stupid aluminum like chris king, why would you replace it?
    if the bearings are shot, either replace them, or replace the hub! on
    nashbar right now:

    $75 centaur
    $65 ultegra
    $60 105.

    not exactly crippling extortion.

  13. Shat's wrong with seven speeds? I've had 7's on my tourer for over a
    decaede, and I'll bet I have a wider, more evenly spaced range with more
    different ratios than most people here. Even with out the granny ring.

    It's not what you got, it's how you use it.

    - -
    Compliments of:
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    If you want to E-mail me use:
    ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

    My website:
    http://geocities.com/czcorner

  14. On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:22:42 -0400, [email hidden]

    (It's Chris) said:

    Shat's wrong with seven speeds? I've had 7's on my tourer for over a
    decaede, and I'll bet I have a wider, more evenly spaced range with more
    different ratios than most people here. Even with out the granny ring.
    It's not what you got, it's how you use it.

    I'd agree. My only issue with a 7 speed cluster is that I have to keep
    it fairly close and low (13-24) to have a smooth progression in the
    gears. But, even with a 42/52 that handles most casual rides. For more
    hills, it's nice to drop to a 40, or 38 or triple with a 36 front.
    Unless you're riding serious hills that should do it for most folks.

    To the OP: I would be inclined to buy some vintage wheels that meet
    your needs. There are plenty of them out there on Ebay. And $280 just
    for wheels? You'd need to have an upscale bike for that kind of cash
    outlay and I can't imagine a bike previously with steel wheels meeting
    the mark. You'd end up with a glamorous set of wheels on a primitive
    bike.

    Not to mention, newer wheels will still have to be a little dated as
    frame widths (rear) have changed - or you need to start pulling the
    frame. Lets add in that your derailleur is probably not capable of
    handling more that the 7 speed.

    If your bike is old enough and low enough on the scale to have steel
    wheels, I'd consider just buying a higher quality used bike. You'll
    upgrade everything at once and have a much nicer ride over all.

    Perhaps if you detailed the bike make, model, year, and equipment
    folks could give you more specific recommendations.

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