ceviche: can you do that to chicken?

x-no-archive: yes

Cate said:

Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone tried it

Sounds much too risky. Salmonella City.

If you want to make something with that flavor I would say poach the chicken, and then put it in
that dressing, but maybe not quite such an acid version-- and don't let it sit too long or the
texture will be yucky.

Naomi D.

Cate said:

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone tried it?

Here are a few facts:

1) With the exception of parasites, seafoods common in ceviche do not host bacteria related to food
poisoning (to my knowledge). This is what makes ceviche a "safe" food preparation with respect
to cooking based on low pH versus cooking with heat. This is independent of contamination by
other factors.

2) Poultry hosts various strains of Salmonella in the gut. Some are able to escape into the
bloodstream and develop in other sites; notably the ovaries thus allowing contamination of eggs.
One should always assume the worst-case contamination.

3) While Salmonella Enterica and Enteriditis demonstrate inhibited growth at a pH of 4 or below,
Salmonella Typhimurium has demonstrated low-pH resistance, implying a potential for growth in a
ceviche-style preparation. These strains have been shown to contaminate consumer poultry via
lab sampling.

4) Low pH "cooking" is generally non-penetrating, consequently internally the meat will not be
exposed to the growth-inhibiting environment of the ceviche preparation. Salmonella Typhimurium
notwithstanding, conceivably one could prepare chicken carpaccio-style (very thinly sliced) to
maximize exposure of the meat to the low pH cooking environment.

Draw your own conclusions. I would not attempt this preparation.

Standard Disclaimer: I am not a microbiologist. My background is purely autodidactic.

"Naomi Darvell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Sounds much too risky. Salmonella City.

But there's a risk of bacteria-borne illness from eating raw seafood, too.

FTR, I'm not seriously considering eating uncooked chicken; I'm just curious.

Quoted message said:

If you want to make something with that flavor I would say poach the

chicken,

Quoted message said:

and then put it in that dressing, but maybe not quite such an acid

version--

Quoted message said:

and don't let it sit too long or the texture will be yucky.

What happens to the texture of the meat? That's part of what I'm trying to find out.

Thanks, Cate

"Jeffrey P. Vasquez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cate said:

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone tried it?

Here are a few facts:

<snip>

Thanks!

Cate

"Naomi Darvell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Well, in my opinion, chicken that sits too long even in your standard vinaigrette-type dressing or
marinade gets mushy. It breaks the fibers

down.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Why don't you run an experiment with a small piece of chix, next time

you're

Quoted message said:

cooking some anyway?

I will. After I find a place near me that sells very, very fresh chicken.

Thanks, Cate

Cate said:

Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has

anyone

Quoted message said:

tried it?

Once or twice I've let chicken marinate in lemon juice a little too long, and it starts to take on
that ceviche-y, cooked look, but I was going to cook it anyway, so I never went through with the
experiment.

Yikes! The texture alone would turn me off. I like seafood ceviche, but *chicken* ceviche...!!!???

--
Best Greg

Cate said:

Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone tried it?

Once or twice I've let chicken marinate in lemon juice a little too long, and it starts to take on
that ceviche-y, cooked look, but I was going to cook it anyway, so I never went through with the
experiment.

The protein would be denatured just like it is with seafood. Additionally, the acid environment
would slow or stop bacterial growth.

Having said that, the neutrality of the chicken's flavor would be utterly overwhelmed by the lime
juice. I'd suggest using dilute lemon juice to start the process and finish it like escabeche where
it's cooked in the juice.

Pastorio

"Bob Pastorio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Having said that, the neutrality of the chicken's flavor would be utterly overwhelmed by the
lime juice.

That's the best explanation I've seen on why no one does it.

I'd suggest using dilute lemon

Quoted message said:

juice to start the process and finish it like escabeche where it's cooked in the juice.

Thanks.

Cate

"Cate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone tried it?

The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a silly process to inflict on a
piece of chicken. The acid of the lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any harmful
bacteria but why risk it?

"Carmen Dioxide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Cate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has

anyone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tried it?

The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a silly process to inflict on
a piece of chicken. The acid of the lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any
harmful bacteria but why risk it?

Thanks.

To clarify once again, I'm not planning to do this; I was merely curious why it was never done (that
I knew of).

Cate

Cate said:

"Carmen Dioxide" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a silly process to inflict on
a piece of chicken. The acid of the lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any
harmful bacteria but why risk it?

Quoted message said:

To clarify once again, I'm not planning to do this; I was merely curious why it was never done
(that I knew of).

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef? Or marinate shrimp in grape jelly and oatmeal?
Sometimes the reason is plain common sense. Sometimes, in the case of raw chicken possibly full of
bacteria, common sense. Oops. I have *heard* of raw chicken sashimi made with super-certified meat,
but there's no way in the world I'd try it. The culinary history of raw chicken is full of horror
stories and very few recipes. I go with the flow. Seviche is a traditional and well-proven recipe
for fish and shellfish. I'm willing to believe if it hasn't become popular with chicken, there are
valid reasons.

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Oops. I have *heard* of raw chicken sashimi

Quoted message said:

made with super-certified meat, but there's no way in the world I'd try it.

See? I didn't know that. So I just went to learn more about it.

I guess the common wisdom differs in the west than it does in Asia, where chicken sashimi and other
things like blowfish (with neurotoxins) are routinely consumed uncooked. That's exactly the kind of
thing what I was curious about.

Many people in the US will eat raw eggs or things that contain them, despite the common practice of
factory farming. The eggs may have traveled hundreds of miles and be quite old by the time they're
consumed uncooked or not fully cooked.

The culinary history of raw chicken is full of horror stories

Quoted message said:

and very few recipes. I go with the flow. Seviche is a traditional and well-proven recipe for fish
and shellfish. I'm willing to believe if it hasn't become popular with chicken, there are valid
reasons.

I'm fairly new to trying new things in cooking (to say nothing of culinary history), and I didn't
know it wasn't popular with chicken. That's why I asked.

Cate

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frogleg said:

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?

We don't? Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes and Mango-Black
Bean Salsa <cnn.commeatloaf.recipeOpen ↗ .html>

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Scott said:

In article said:

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?

We don't? Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes and Mango-Black
Bean Salsa <cnn.commeatloaf.recipeOpen ↗ .html>

I'm sorry.

That's getting crossposted.

--Blair "Garnish with beak, agape in awe."

Scott wrote in response:

Quoted message said:

Frogleg said:

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?

We don't? Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes and Mango-Black
Bean Salsa <cnn.commeatloaf.reciOpen ↗ pe .html>

Exactly.

Cate, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your question.

Frogleg is implying, if we were supposed to fly, why don't we have wings.

Scott is saying some dare to dream.

I am not discounting your suggestion, but simply supplying reason.

What about vegetable ceviche? I haven't seen that one. Be a pioneer.

Scott said:

Frogleg said:

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?

\>

Quoted message said:

We don't? Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes and Mango-Black
Bean Salsa <cnn.commeatloaf.recipeOpen ↗ .html>

Ugh. Sorry, but that just sounds nasty to me! I'm putting that in the same mental file where I
placed the tuna-salad-lemon-jello-mold recipe.

-j.

"Jeffrey P. Vasquez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cate, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your question.

This I knew, but thanks for the validation. I was surprised my question seemed to offend some
people's sensibilities, rather than made them think 'Hey--*does* anybody do that?'

And I didn't mean just in the US, or the western hemisphere. After all, some people would say it
goes against common sense to eat dogs or cats, but people do indeed eat them, and who am I to
question that?

Quoted message said:

What about vegetable ceviche? I haven't seen that one. Be a pioneer.

Now that's interesting, and something I might actually try. Thanks for the idea.

Cate

In article <[email hidden]>,

June Oshiro said:

Ugh. Sorry, but that just sounds nasty to me! I'm putting that in the same mental file where I
placed the tuna-salad-lemon-jello-mold recipe.

Didn't say I made it, just that it exists. 🙂

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