Folders

Roger Merriman said:

It's not likely to be used often. but now and then it would be handy.

it's likely to live in the car (1) boot so smaller is better, though
Sa's route takes her along park gravel paths etc so needs to be able to
cope and not be too twichy about it.

any thoughts? i'm heading towards a brompton if only due to the fold
into a tiny wee lump. though the dawes is cheaper and with bigger wheels
should offer a more solid ride.

You can't go that wrong with a Brom: if you never use it you'll be able
to sell it on at an excellent price, and if you've bought it through the
tax break you're unlikely to lose any money at all and you won't have
any trouble finding a buyer.

On the "not likely to be used often", I bought my first one on exactly
that premise and now use a Brom as my primary hack bike that does more
trips by number than my other bikes put together. You may be pleasantly
surprised at how useful and versatile a steed it is.

I've taken mine along MTB trails around Loch Morlich and around the
local woods, and we live by an unsurfaced lane: it's not ideal for any
of these, but it does cope okay, especially if you get the optional
Marathons for it which have a little more tread than Brompton's own tyres.

Twitchiness of the steering is something I personally find a non-issue.
Folks I've lent it to have suggested they find it a bit nervous at
first but after a wee while they're dialled in and it ceases to be a
problem. While other folders may give a more "normal" ride, I wouldn't
say the Brom is in any way un-solid (I think you want a Bickerton for
that bendy feeling...) unless you like heaving on the handlebars out of
the saddle in big gears. if you do like that sort of riding then a Brom
isn't ideal, but if you're happy staying sat down and spinning to your
destination it offers a very good ride IMHO.

Until recently we had a 10 year old Fiesta... unless you routinely have
the back seats down there's not much room in the boot (a lot of why we
changed to a Skoda Fabia estate, in fact) and the smaller the better.
The Brom fits in with no trouble at all.

Since you can get accessories on the scheme as well as bikes, I'd
strongly recommend the carrier block and one of the bags (I have the
standard pannier which is a nice mix of decent carrying capacity and
utility). I'd also suggest the reduced gearing, even for flattish
places (but then I like spinning at higher cadences, though if it's a
hilly spot I think you might regret the standard gearing).

Finally, my personal opinion is the 'C' budget model is a false economy:
yes, it's cheaper, but no mudguards and downgraded components is just
something you'll pay for later, and when the tax-man isn't taking part
of the strain for you.

Pete.

p.s., I have heard ruumours that Guy has one of these. perhaps he'll
break with tradition and tell you about it...
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Merriman said:

It's not likely to be used often. but now and then it would be handy.

On the "not likely to be used often", I bought my first one on exactly
that premise and now use a Brom as my primary hack bike that does more
trips by number than my other bikes put together. You may be pleasantly
surprised at how useful and versatile a steed it is.

I got my Brompton via the cycle to work scheme, expecting to use it on
occasional business trips by train.
It is now my main bike, I use it for everything including my commute from
Ealing to Whitehall ( 20 mile return )
Save money by not buying a lock, if you lock it up it will be stolen.
I've taken mine into MOD establishments, NATO HQ Germany, Eurostar,
hospitals, supermarkets pubs etc etc.
In the 30 months I've had it I've never had any trouble taking it anywhere
except The Griffin pub in BRENTFORD,
probably less than half a mile from the Brompton factory, [censored].

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:51:53 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

On the "not likely to be used often", I bought my first one on exactly
that premise and now use a Brom as my primary hack bike that does more
trips by number than my other bikes put together. You may be pleasantly
surprised at how useful and versatile a steed it is.

True dat. My other bikes think I no longer love them, but the truth
is more prosaic: the Brom is so good that it's usually not worth the
trivial effort of unhooking the tourer or MTB from the garage wall.
The bent only gets out for the occasional joyride.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Merriman wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any thoughts? i'm heading towards a brompton if only due to the fold
into a tiny wee lump. though the dawes is cheaper and with bigger
wheels should offer a more solid ride.

You can't go that wrong with a Brom: if you never use it you'll be
able to sell it on at an excellent price,........

Quoted message said:

Finally, my personal opinion is the 'C' budget model is a false
economy: yes, it's cheaper, but no mudguards and downgraded
components is just something you'll pay for later

I'm pretty certain that Brompton have discontinued the "C" model, so the
concerns about buying budget parts then replacing them shortly afterwards no
longer exists.

If wanting the ultimate lightweight Brompton, its no longer the cheap C, but
the expensive Titanium option in single-speed form.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Merriman said:

It's not likely to be used often. but now and then it would be handy.

it's likely to live in the car (1) boot so smaller is better, though
Sa's route takes her along park gravel paths etc so needs to be able to
cope and not be too twichy about it.

any thoughts? i'm heading towards a brompton if only due to the fold
into a tiny wee lump. though the dawes is cheaper and with bigger wheels
should offer a more solid ride.

You can't go that wrong with a Brom: if you never use it you'll be able
to sell it on at an excellent price, and if you've bought it through the
tax break you're unlikely to lose any money at all and you won't have
any trouble finding a buyer.

true. though hopefully it will get some use. though we'll have to check
what the stance is if i use it, and it gets nicked damadged etc, ie
insurance.

Quoted message said:

On the "not likely to be used often", I bought my first one on exactly
that premise and now use a Brom as my primary hack bike that does more
trips by number than my other bikes put together. You may be pleasantly
surprised at how useful and versatile a steed it is.

people do seem to love them, the only issue i can see for me, though not
sa (which is handy as it will be her bike) is i don't have any where to
store bikes at work as the area i'm in changes and is outside work, so i
tend to ride/drive to area and then park up. now big green bike is fine
as it's really not attractive to steal, worse i've had is a half empty
bottle of coke and some empty crisp packets left in the front basket...

but the brompton might well not ne there when i get back so that will
require more thought, on where and when i use it.

Quoted message said:

I've taken mine along MTB trails around Loch Morlich and around the
local woods, and we live by an unsurfaced lane: it's not ideal for any
of these, but it does cope okay, especially if you get the optional
Marathons for it which have a little more tread than Brompton's own tyres.

i was thinking of the marthons having a poke at the web site on the
weekend. as they do seem to be pritty much perfect city tires.

Quoted message said:

Twitchiness of the steering is something I personally find a non-issue.
Folks I've lent it to have suggested they find it a bit nervous at
first but after a wee while they're dialled in and it ceases to be a
problem. While other folders may give a more "normal" ride, I wouldn't
say the Brom is in any way un-solid (I think you want a Bickerton for
that bendy feeling...) unless you like heaving on the handlebars out of
the saddle in big gears. if you do like that sort of riding then a Brom
isn't ideal, but if you're happy staying sat down and spinning to your
destination it offers a very good ride IMHO.

well Sa doesn't tend to do such sillyness and i well i'll just have curb
my rocketing away from the lights a bit if it springs around too much.

but it will be sa's bike not mine though i may use it just now and then.

Quoted message said:

Until recently we had a 10 year old Fiesta... unless you routinely have
the back seats down there's not much room in the boot (a lot of why we
changed to a Skoda Fabia estate, in fact) and the smaller the better.
The Brom fits in with no trouble at all.

the car was free and only had sub 15,000 mile about a year ago. i've put
about 20 on it thus far but even so it's a low milage car. and quite
frankly my intrest in cars is fairly low. and luckly the use is dropping
down which is good.

Quoted message said:

Since you can get accessories on the scheme as well as bikes, I'd
strongly recommend the carrier block and one of the bags (I have the
standard pannier which is a nice mix of decent carrying capacity and
utility). I'd also suggest the reduced gearing, even for flattish
places (but then I like spinning at higher cadences, though if it's a
hilly spot I think you might regret the standard gearing).

na it's SW london area, hampton to kingston though Bushy park should be
it's most common route. so near as flat with some gravel tracks etc.

plus sa likes higher gears.

Quoted message said:

Finally, my personal opinion is the 'C' budget model is a false economy:
yes, it's cheaper, but no mudguards and downgraded components is just
something you'll pay for later, and when the tax-man isn't taking part
of the strain for you.

looks like one of the M's with paniers and mudguards. possibly lights or
might just drop some twinkies on it.

Quoted message said:

Pete.

p.s., I have heard ruumours that Guy has one of these. perhaps he'll
break with tradition and tell you about it...

heh

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In article said:

people do seem to love them, the only issue i can see for me, though not
sa (which is handy as it will be her bike) is i don't have any where to
store bikes at work as the area i'm in changes and is outside work

Usually that's a good argument in favour of a Brompton, as being
so small it will fit under a desk or in a similar space so you can
keep it close. (I realise that might not apply to you.)

A folded Birdy will fit in the back of a Ford Ka with the seats up,
by the way, so while not quite as neat folded as a Brompton (and rather
more expensive), would almost certainly also fit in your Fiesta.

Roger Merriman said:

true. though hopefully it will get some use. though we'll have to check
what the stance is if i use it, and it gets nicked damadged etc, ie
insurance.

It belongs to the employer who is leasing it to the rider. Convention
is that at the end of the payment period the employer sells it on to
you, usually at 5% or so of initial cost, at which point it's yours.

Since the employer has little use for your bike, if it gets nicked what
will happen in practice is you continue to pay for it under the salary
sacrifice, but you don't have a bike any more.

Quoted message said:

people do seem to love them, the only issue i can see for me, though not
sa (which is handy as it will be her bike) is i don't have any where to
store bikes at work as the area i'm in changes and is outside work, so i
tend to ride/drive to area and then park up. now big green bike is fine
as it's really not attractive to steal, worse i've had is a half empty
bottle of coke and some empty crisp packets left in the front basket...

but the brompton might well not ne there when i get back so that will
require more thought, on where and when i use it.

It's just as easy to lock as any other bike (there's a handy space in
the frame that makes it very easy to lock frame and rear wheel together
when the back wheel is "parked"😉. The main point is if you're inside at
all then it needs very little space to store: in a cupboard, under a
desk etc. Not knowing exactly what your work is I don't know how
relevant that will be, but parking securely is typically easier as aside
from anything else you can lock it part-folded or folded where you need
a lot less space for it.

Quoted message said:

i was thinking of the marthons having a poke at the web site on the
weekend. as they do seem to be pritty much perfect city tires.

I think so, though John B. moaned at some length about them, finding
them rather stodgy compared to Brompton's own. OTOH I've never heard
Marathons described as "a bit skittery in the wet", so you choose, you
lose...

Quoted message said:

well Sa doesn't tend to do such sillyness and i well i'll just have curb
my rocketing away from the lights a bit if it springs around too much.

Rocketing away from the lights is easy as long as you start in a low
gear (which you always can, with a hub gear) and spin from the saddle.
The small wheels accelerate very well and it's easy to steal a march on
other cyclists who stopped somewhere in the middle of their derailleur
options and have to plod away in something much higher.

Quoted message said:

looks like one of the M's with paniers and mudguards. possibly lights or
might just drop some twinkies on it.

If you see it as beibng a main bike for either or both of you then
there's the usual urc "the hub dynamos are the business!" suggestion,
but if it's a bit of an experiment it's a lot extra to pay, even at the
reduced rate. But they are *very* good... But some clip on LEDs should
be fine (seatpost takes one for the rear light).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Alan Braggins said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman wrote: >people do seem to love them, the only issue i can see for
me, though not >sa (which is handy as it will be her bike) is i don't have
any where to >store bikes at work as the area i'm in changes and is
outside work

Usually that's a good argument in favour of a Brompton, as being
so small it will fit under a desk or in a similar space so you can
keep it close. (I realise that might not apply to you.)

at the moment no, as i travel to a area rather than a building.

Quoted message said:

A folded Birdy will fit in the back of a Ford Ka with the seats up,
by the way, so while not quite as neat folded as a Brompton (and rather
more expensive), would almost certainly also fit in your Fiesta.

heh sa wouldn't be happy with a Birdy, she likes more sit up and beg
postions as do i to be honest for city bikes.

she attually found <http://www.birdybike.com/> when searching for our
local bike shop that has a simular name.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

heh sa wouldn't be happy with a Birdy, she likes more sit up and beg
postions as do i to be honest for city bikes.

Eh? Birdy is pretty adjustable, and comes out fairly upright whatever. Have
you tried riding one?

(IMO and my wife's, it's a far better ride than the brompton. Not cheap
though :-( )

cheers,
clive

Roger Merriman said:

heh sa wouldn't be happy with a Birdy, she likes more sit up and beg
postions as do i to be honest for city bikes.

Birdy has a choice of 2 stems, one raked forward and the other back.
Select the raked back one ("comfort stem" IIRC) and it's sit up and beg.

The ride on a Birdy is better as the frame is a lot stiffer and you've
got full suspension instead of just rear. I'd say it's the better "one
bike for all jobs" tool, but what the Brom does best it does better than
anything else (smallest, easiest fold while maintaining useful amounts
of rideability). But a Birdy costs more and doesn't fold as neatly. You
choose, you lose.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Merriman said:

true. though hopefully it will get some use. though we'll have to check
what the stance is if i use it, and it gets nicked damadged etc, ie
insurance.

It belongs to the employer who is leasing it to the rider. Convention
is that at the end of the payment period the employer sells it on to
you, usually at 5% or so of initial cost, at which point it's yours.

Since the employer has little use for your bike, if it gets nicked what
will happen in practice is you continue to pay for it under the salary
sacrifice, but you don't have a bike any more.

ah ok, will have to see about that, it's a small firm and Sa is employee
no3 or something.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people do seem to love them, the only issue i can see for me, though not
sa (which is handy as it will be her bike) is i don't have any where to
store bikes at work as the area i'm in changes and is outside work, so i
tend to ride/drive to area and then park up. now big green bike is fine
as it's really not attractive to steal, worse i've had is a half empty
bottle of coke and some empty crisp packets left in the front basket...

but the brompton might well not ne there when i get back so that will
require more thought, on where and when i use it.

It's just as easy to lock as any other bike (there's a handy space in
the frame that makes it very easy to lock frame and rear wheel together
when the back wheel is "parked"😉. The main point is if you're inside at
all then it needs very little space to store: in a cupboard, under a
desk etc. Not knowing exactly what your work is I don't know how
relevant that will be, but parking securely is typically easier as aside
from anything else you can lock it part-folded or folded where you need
a lot less space for it.

as of the moment very unlikely that i'd have access to any where i could
lock it inside. just have to make sure it has a half decent lock. and
check that it will be covered by someones insurace.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i was thinking of the marthons having a poke at the web site on the
weekend. as they do seem to be pritty much perfect city tires.

I think so, though John B. moaned at some length about them, finding
them rather stodgy compared to Brompton's own. OTOH I've never heard
Marathons described as "a bit skittery in the wet", so you choose, you
lose...

well quite, i took my old racer out on work duties and really did notice
how much more skittery it was in the rain, where as my normal work horse
with it's 37mm marthon+'s one can be quite cavlier about wet man hole
covers etc. mind you i got home in record time on the old racer... but i
did have to take more care.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

well Sa doesn't tend to do such sillyness and i well i'll just have curb
my rocketing away from the lights a bit if it springs around too much.

Rocketing away from the lights is easy as long as you start in a low
gear (which you always can, with a hub gear) and spin from the saddle.
The small wheels accelerate very well and it's easy to steal a march on
other cyclists who stopped somewhere in the middle of their derailleur
options and have to plod away in something much higher.

thats normaly what i do, roll up lights in 1st and as lights change hoof
it, and click up though the gears. even with the fully laden green lump
it's quite easy to leave the rest of the cyclists cliping in and cars
and what not getting into gear. by the time they have well i've cleared
the junction.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

looks like one of the M's with paniers and mudguards. possibly lights or
might just drop some twinkies on it.

If you see it as beibng a main bike for either or both of you then
there's the usual urc "the hub dynamos are the business!" suggestion,
but if it's a bit of an experiment it's a lot extra to pay, even at the
reduced rate. But they are *very* good... But some clip on LEDs should
be fine (seatpost takes one for the rear light).

i'd love dynamo but i think it would be better on big green as she is my
main workhorse and the bike i'm most likely to be riding home in the
dark etc.

Quoted message said:

Pete.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Merriman said:

heh sa wouldn't be happy with a Birdy, she likes more sit up and beg
postions as do i to be honest for city bikes.

Birdy has a choice of 2 stems, one raked forward and the other back.
Select the raked back one ("comfort stem" IIRC) and it's sit up and beg.

The ride on a Birdy is better as the frame is a lot stiffer and you've
got full suspension instead of just rear. I'd say it's the better "one
bike for all jobs" tool, but what the Brom does best it does better than
anything else (smallest, easiest fold while maintaining useful amounts
of rideability). But a Birdy costs more and doesn't fold as neatly. You
choose, you lose.

Pete.

i have a fair fleet of bikes it has to be said, i have one that i need
to do something with as it's looking rather sad and negleted.

which is roundabout way of saying i think the folding into a wee lump is
my main intrest.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Clive George said:

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

heh sa wouldn't be happy with a Birdy, she likes more sit up and beg
postions as do i to be honest for city bikes.

Eh? Birdy is pretty adjustable, and comes out fairly upright whatever. Have
you tried riding one?

no i've only ridden one folder which was some old lump my dad found,
certinaly the birdy looks on their web site a lot faster, and more
forward postion.

Quoted message said:

(IMO and my wife's, it's a far better ride than the brompton. Not cheap
though :-( )

it looks it, but thats not really the need for this bike, and yes is a
bit too pricey, for our entended use.

Quoted message said:

cheers,
clive

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Roger Merriman said:

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Merriman said:

true. though hopefully it will get some use. though we'll have to
check what the stance is if i use it, and it gets nicked damadged
etc, ie insurance.

It belongs to the employer who is leasing it to the rider.
Convention is that at the end of the payment period the employer
sells it on to you, usually at 5% or so of initial cost, at which
point it's yours.

Since the employer has little use for your bike, if it gets nicked
what will happen in practice is you continue to pay for it under the
salary sacrifice, but you don't have a bike any more.

ah ok, will have to see about that, it's a small firm and Sa is
employee no3 or something.

With really small firms, its down to what you can discuss with the owners.

The company could carry the risk (or insure it), or could decide not to
bother with insurance.

There is no requirement to use salary sacrifice, an external management
company, or to be limited to £1000 value. For some firms, its simple to
out-source the bike scheme to management companies, but for others doing it
"in house" saves all the costs of the external company.
The £1000 limit comes from using credit agreements (salary sacrifice deals)
where the consumer credit act has a £1000 rule; go above that and there are
loads more hoops for the employer to jump through. But, if its not done with
a credit deal, then there is no limit.

In the extreme, you can legally have the company buy a £10K bike and loan it
to the employee; no salary deductions, no tax to pay, company claims back
VAT on bike purchase. In a few years time the company can sell it as s/hand,
when it could be bought by the employee who has been using it. I'm
considering doing something similar in the near future, though 1K's worth of
bike, not 10! I'm a director and co-owner of a small firm.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/