ITS SPRING !!

datakoll said:

http://www.railstotrails.org/newsandpubs/trailofthemonth/index.html

here's another bike path with lousy weather

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/San-Diego-Bayshore-Bikeway

Gene Daniels wrote:

http://www.railstotrails.org/newsandpubs/trailofthemonth/index.html

Quoted message said:

here's another bike path with lousy weather

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/San-Diego-Bayshore-Bikeway

Nice peaceful picture but the sad part is that the USA with its auto
oriented culture cannot see that they are giving away transit
corridors right and left to never return as they make hiking and
bicycling paths of them. These routes are difficult to make today
with all the built up infrastructure around inhabited area.

These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
property and public trails. Historically no trail has been take back
for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.

This is common all over the USA and in the SF area disrupted RR ROW
lie dormant or converted all over. I would prefer putting in transit
and a bike path parallel to it.

Jobst Brandt

Gene Daniels wrote:

http://www.railstotrails.org/newsandpubs/trailofthemonth/index.html

Quoted message said:

here's another bike path with lousy weather

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/San-Diego-Bayshore-Bikeway

Nice peaceful picture but the sad part is that the USA with its auto
oriented culture cannot see the need for transit and are giving away
these corridors right and left to never return as they make hiking and
bicycling paths of them. These routes are difficult to make today
with all the built up infrastructure around inhabited area.

These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
property and public trails. Historically no trail has been converted
back for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.

This is common all over the USA and in the SF area many disrupted RR
ROW's lie dormant or converted. I would prefer putting in transit and
a bike path parallel to it.

Jobst Brandt

Jobst Brandt said:

These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
property and public trails. Historically no trail has been take back
for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.

This is common all over the USA and in the SF area disrupted RR ROW
lie dormant or converted all over. I would prefer putting in transit
and a bike path parallel to it.

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is far
more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a practical
use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some of the
overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and underpasses in
the process.

Chalo

Bike paths give an urban area a bit more lung capacity.
I read where new car buyers are working on hi mileage loans. But not
that high. I’ll bet $200/barrel brings out the mass transit crowd
minus mag-lev hooooha. BYOG *

http://www.railtrails.org/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses

http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-544-PV/c-1-77/
ahhh those were the days: New interstates and nooooooo traffic, not
much smog. $1.05 ? custom imperail supreme red eye ? roooort rooort
oh well

*bring your own goat

puhlease datakoll at datakoll amrine research

what the Madison piece needs are A. Muzi's photos of junkies and
drunks standing around his shop [censored] deep in snow

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

what the Madison piece needs are A. Muzi's photos of junkies and
drunks standing around his shop [censored] deep in snow

Hey, I used to rent a room in a house full of those junkies and drunks
(near the intersection of Wilson, Henry and Hamilton). One guy walked
down to the liquor store every morning to buy a fifth of Jack, which he
drank until he passed out.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

right. the good the bad the drunk and Sherman.

Moses, as mentioned before in less tense millyew, the Cold War
architect of NYC highways, (NYC was the world capital), built the road
to Long Island under a bridge too low to pass a city bus.

People are pigs, some are piggier than others. Still a limiting factor
for narrow gauge inner city rail ? What was that place called ?
'Sanctuary' ? Aldous Huxley et al. Its ok building urban rail for
models and accountants but who would build UR for junkies and drunks?
Not Moses.

I believe the electric skate board has a future. Butt first, a
governer. ENOUGH BONNEVILLE ELECTRIC SKATEBOARDING ALREADY !

Is there a Moses architect of electric skate boards, bicycle and
narrow gauge?

I broached the subject here in Florida for the Beeline from Orlando to
the Sapce Coast. Answer: cost of policing a parallel bike path was
astronomical and problematic.

There is a formative rail trail from Titusville to Sanford ( no T )
across the great St Johns swamp. Off course, it's entertainment not
transportation. Moses, architect of electric skateboards, would mix
the two. And limit exposure...that's a trick.

Chalo Colina said:

Quoted message said:

These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
property and public trails. Historically no trail has been take back
for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is common all over the USA and in the SF area disrupted RR ROW
lie dormant or converted all over. I would prefer putting in transit
and a bike path parallel to it.

Quoted message said:

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is far
more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a practical
use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some of the
overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and underpasses in
the process.

That's an awful place to put rail corridors although it has been done
for rapid transit in many places. The stations are hard to reach and
people shy away from going out there in the netherworld of whizzing
cars and trucks. The classic train station that attracts people is the one shown in Wausau insurance ads.

http://tinyurl.com/5heulp
http://www.flickr.com/photos/84263554@N00/441073761

Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific, (Milwaukee Road), a fallen flag
along with so may other famous ones like NY Central, PRR (Pensy), CB&Q
(Burlington), Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, DR&RGW (Rio Grand)...
This is not a country of railways and public transportation, but one
of cars and trucks with roaring 24hr freeways.

Jobst Brandt

datakoll said:

http://www.railstotrails.org/newsandpubs/trailofthemonth/index.html

MuHAHaHAhAhah;

Its California! -
http://baytrail.abag.ca.gov/ipix/virtual_bay_trail.html

TBerk
damn'd near Springtime all the time here...

Jobst Brandt said:

Chalo Colina said:

Jobst Brandt said:

These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
property and public trails. Historically no trail has been take back
for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.
This is common all over the USA and in the SF area disrupted RR ROW
lie dormant or converted all over. I would prefer putting in transit
and a bike path parallel to it.

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is far
more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a practical
use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some of the
overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and underpasses in
the process.

That's an awful place to put rail corridors although it has been done
for rapid transit in many places. The stations are hard to reach and
people shy away from going out there in the netherworld of whizzing
cars and trucks.

My point is that the same conditions that will soon stimulate renewed
demand for rail infrastructure will also mean fewer cars, fewer
trucks, and a whole lot less whizzing.

Chalo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is far
more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a practical
use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some of the
overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and underpasses in
the process.

That's an awful place to put rail corridors although it has been done
for rapid transit in many places. The stations are hard to reach and
people shy away from going out there in the netherworld of whizzing
cars and trucks.

I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.

Andrew Price said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is
far more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a
practical use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some
of the overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and
underpasses in the process.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's an awful place to put rail corridors although it has been
done for rapid transit in many places. The stations are hard to
reach and people shy away from going out there in the netherworld
of whizzing cars and trucks.

Quoted message said:

I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.

Just the same, the center of a freeway is a hostile no-man's land.
That may be a good wish, but I don't see it coming, having watched
such events come and go. When we had gasoline rationing during WWII
rail lines were being abandoned in this area and converted to other
non-recoverable uses. The last CEO of Southern Pacific abandoned
lines left and right before the show was over.

Today, SF has no rail freight service any more because the huge
Bayshore yard and locomotive shops are gone. All freight traffic
comes to SF from Oakland and is trucked over the Bay Bridge into town.
The stupid part of that is the need for a new version of the 10-lane
bridge arises from east ramp that is so steep that fully loaded
trucks, once stopped by traffic back-up cannot get out of second gear
and cause huge daily traffic jams "on the incline".

http://www.baybridgeinfo.org/

This bridge is not being built:

http://bridgepros.com/projects/Bay_Bridge/index.htm

With no funds for our decaying republican roads with pot holes that
destroy rims on cars, there is no money for this construction project
so Arnoldt (the Terminator) is taking it from school funding.

The new bridge, being built parallel to the old, starts its ramp far
enough back to have a lesser gradient... but it cannot have more than
5-lanes in each direction like the old one because the tunnel through
YBI and the west suspension bridge have 5+5 lanes (upper and lower
decks). To cover for this construction boondoggle, constant reference
to the seismically damaged bridge is made... a bridge that has no load
or speed restrictions since 1989 when a piece of concrete decking
broke in the earthquake.

The Dumbarton rail bridge has been closed since Southern Pacific went
under and no trains, passenger or freight, can get to SF that way, the
way most freight arrived from the container yards in Oakland, southern
CA and the east. Citizens committees oppose re-opening the bridge and
a vigilante group burned the wooden trestle west (1/4 mile) end of its
approach trestle to the water.

All cities between Redwood City (Dumbarton line) and SF oppose high
speed rail to SF. That's where we are in the USA.

Jobst Brandt

Rails to trails

Weeds are growing where Bayshore Yard and the locomotive and car shops
were. There is no plan to improve freight traffic to the "City" while
billions are being appropriated for bridge and freeway projects for
commuters in cars.

Then:

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=10&X=690&Y=5216&W=3

Now:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/San+Francisco+ca+94108/

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

The stupid part of that is the need for a new version of the 10-lane
bridge arises from east ramp that is so steep that fully loaded
trucks, once stopped by traffic back-up cannot get out of second gear
and cause huge daily traffic jams "on the incline".

wow

incredible

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The stupid part of that is the need for a new version of the
10-lane bridge arises from east ramp that is so steep that fully
loaded trucks, once stopped by traffic back-up cannot get out of
second gear and cause huge daily traffic jams "on the incline".

Quoted message said:

wow

Quoted message said:

incredible

Well the incredible part is that the change in gradient could be
achieved at lee than 1/10 the cost by making more steel bridge
trusses, that serve so well, to lengthen the ramp and then jack it up
on new steel piers. Steel piers that withstand earthquakes as was
discovered but not recognized in 1989 when the steel structures
received no damage and the concrete one fell.

Oops! Steel is out, carbon fiber is in!

Just look at the "new bridge" with focus on earthquake stability. It
isn't there!

Jobst Brandt

Chalo said:

Jobst Brandt said:

Chalo Colina said:

Jobst Brandt wrote:

>These rights-of-way were laid out when this was all open space. Today
>transit corridors have been demolished and converted to private
>property and public trails. Historically no trail has been take back
>for badly needed transit and long distance travel by rail.
>This is common all over the USA and in the SF area disrupted RR ROW
>lie dormant or converted all over. I would prefer putting in transit
>and a bike path parallel to it.

Don't worry too much about it-- it won't be long until there is far
more Interstate and US Highway right-of-way than we have a practical
use for. Running rail down the middle will redeem some of the
overcapacity and make good use of all those over- and underpasses in
the process.

That's an awful place to put rail corridors although it has been done
for rapid transit in many places. The stations are hard to reach and
people shy away from going out there in the netherworld of whizzing
cars and trucks.

My point is that the same conditions that will soon stimulate renewed
demand for rail infrastructure will also mean fewer cars, fewer
trucks, and a whole lot less whizzing.

Chalo

If today was any indication, the W&OD trail is waaaaaay to popular to
ever go back to rail, even if it hadn't been crossed by many roads in an
apparently irreversible manner (at least not without many grade
crossings) - it's a little too popular to even keep a good pace on a
bike. I'm going to have to start riding later I think; I left the house
at about 6:30 and it certainly wasn't a relaxing ride, I was constantly
planning my moves to safely pass all the walkers, joggers and slow
cyclists without cutting off any of the jersey and aero bar crowd.

Oh, and my plan to go for a nice "easy, relaxing ride" went right out
the window the first time I got passed by an old guy 🙂 Felt good
anyway, at least until I got a faceful of skeeters next to a creek...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Quoted message said:

Just the same, the center of a freeway is a hostile no-man's land.

Too, too true.
The spot where my bike and I were smeared by a massive pickup truck
was less than a block from a light rail station...hard by the 85/87
interchange where the "Bike Path" spits you into the gauntlet where I
was struck, and pedestrians routinely put their lives into the hands
of drivers. As the fire dept paras were sopping up my blood a group
of developmentally disabled young adults crossed at the same light.
"Sheesh..." I thought, "it could have been them."

Brimming with good cheer,
ABS

....and that's why it is cloudy and cool in So Cal.

June Gloom comes early to the Southland. But who cares? It's still 15C
(60F), and the clouds don't mean rain. You can just ride for hours on
one bottle of water, and a single coat of sunscreen.