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It held air

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Cycling Equipment
Published
3 April 2008
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6 April 2008
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  1. Yesterday, I noticed a trace of green Slime in a hole in my rear tire.

    But the tire was holding air, so I told myself that it was just
    left-over slime from a previous flat, not from a new puncture.

    Today, the tire still held air, but my pre-flight check forced me to
    revise my theory:
    http://i25.tinypic.com/2mzk66f.jpg
    http://i29.tinypic.com/2j1r690.jpg

    The pump and gauge aren't attached to the valve--the pump handle was
    just a handy stand to hang the wheel.

    The tire probably would have worked fine, but I pulled the tube for
    patching, put in another, and chalked up my 14th flat for 2008.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  2. Quoted message said:

    Yesterday, I noticed a trace of green Slime in a hole in my rear tire.

    But the tire was holding air, so I told myself that it was just
    left-over slime from a previous flat, not from a new puncture.

    Today, the tire still held air, but my pre-flight check forced me to
    revise my theory:
    http://i25.tinypic.com/2mzk66f.jpg
    http://i29.tinypic.com/2j1r690.jpg

    The pump and gauge aren't attached to the valve--the pump handle was
    just a handy stand to hang the wheel.

    The tire probably would have worked fine, but I pulled the tube for
    patching, put in another, and chalked up my 14th flat for 2008.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Boy, you bettah find yo'self a road to ride on!

    Fourteen flats in 93 days - congratulations. No wait, I think I mean
    commiseration.

  3. Colin Campbell said:
    Quoted message said:

    Yesterday, I noticed a trace of green Slime in a hole in my rear tire.

    But the tire was holding air, so I told myself that it was just
    left-over slime from a previous flat, not from a new puncture.

    Today, the tire still held air, but my pre-flight check forced me to
    revise my theory:
    http://i25.tinypic.com/2mzk66f.jpg
    http://i29.tinypic.com/2j1r690.jpg

    The pump and gauge aren't attached to the valve--the pump handle was
    just a handy stand to hang the wheel.

    The tire probably would have worked fine, but I pulled the tube for
    patching, put in another, and chalked up my 14th flat for 2008.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Boy, you bettah find yo'self a road to ride on!

    Fourteen flats in 93 days - congratulations. No wait, I think I mean
    commiseration.

    Dear Colin,

    What do you mean, find a road? It's all nicely paved, about nine miles
    of road and six miles of path.

    There's even [modest cough] a traffic light with non-functioning
    traffic cameras.

    Alas, my daily ride isn't quite as daily as I'd like in the winter, so
    it's technically fourteen flats in only 83 rides.

    Usually the cause is goathead thorns, though the holes in the pictures
    are from something larger--glass, rock chips, russian olive thorns, or
    metal debris ranging from nails to cotter pins to fish-hooks.

    Sometimes I wonder uneasily if holes like the ones in this picture are
    quite as normal as I think they are:
    http://i29.tinypic.com/2j1r690.jpg

    I took a dozen toothpicks and stuck them through similar holes in an
    earlier tire:
    http://i32.tinypic.com/f1lhdf.jpg

    There were more holes, but a dozen toothpicks seemed like enough.
    Reassuringly, the replies to that post didn't seem to indicate that
    the holes were unusual:
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/de3c5a10890f242f

    So far, it's been a good year in that most of my flats have been
    repaired comfortably at home rather than on the road. I like my Topeak
    Road Morph pump, but I like my floor pump and work bench better.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  4. Quoted message said:

    Usually the cause is goathead thorns, though the holes in the pictures
    are from something larger--glass, rock chips, russian olive thorns, or
    metal debris ranging from nails to cotter pins to fish-hooks.

    So, maybe we've been over this all before, but what have you got
    against
    Mr. Tuffy? Slime gets all over. I have Mr. Tuffies in all of my
    bikes
    (well, one bike has a knockoff made by Slime, but it's not slime-
    filled,
    it's just a plastic armor strip), and goathead punctures never get me
    anymore.

  5. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Usually the cause is goathead thorns, though the holes in the pictures
    are from something larger--glass, rock chips, russian olive thorns, or
    metal debris ranging from nails to cotter pins to fish-hooks.

    So, maybe we've been over this all before, but what have you got
    against
    Mr. Tuffy?  Slime gets all over.  I have Mr. Tuffies in all of my
    bikes
    (well, one bike has a knockoff made by Slime, but it's not slime-
    filled,
    it's just a plastic armor strip), and goathead punctures never get me
    anymore.

    Dear Chris,

    I have no objection to Mr. Tuffies. Some people like them.

    But years ago I still had goathead flats with Mr. Tuffies and thicker
    thorn-resistant tubes. The plastic strips sometimes made roadside
    repairs more troublesome.

    Plastic strips and thorn-resistant tube don't protect well against
    thorns off the center of the tread like this:

    http://i18.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

    http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

    Plastic strips also increase rolling resistance noticeably. My times
    improved markedly when I switched to Slime tubes.

    As for any mess, even the result of a rim blow-off cleans up with a
    quick swipe or two of the hand, wiped off on the nearest weeds:

    http://i18.tinypic.com/4t9hswg.jpg

    I'm willing to put up with a few drops of slime in exchange for
    getting home about half the time without stopping to fix a flat and
    for finding two or three sealed holes in a tube when it finally goes
    flat.

    I don't know of anything other than solid tires that really works
    around here, but the rolling resistance is more than I'm willing to
    put up with.

    So I like Slime tubes better than anything that I've tried, you're
    happier with plastic strips, and Lewis likes solid airfree tires:
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e37844d420b29220

    There are other solutions, too.

    I pass a lot of riders around here who are riding MTB bikes with
    knobby tires on pavement. With the knobs, the actual tire sits high
    off the ground, well away from most goatheads.

    But I also often see them pushing their bikes with flat knobby tires
    and what turn out to be thicker thorn-resistant tubes. It only takes
    one goathead.

    (And those MTB riders pedal past me when I'm yanking a tube and
    pumping up the new one by the side of the path or road.)

    I also pedal past riders tucking plastic strips back into road tires.

    In the summer, I sometimes meet puzzled riders on touring bikes with
    flats in the thick industrial tires often recommended here. A few of
    them have volunteered that it was the first flat they'd had since they
    left California.

    As an aside, rolling resistance is a points often confused in bicycle
    history.

    Dunlop didn't pursue the pneumatic tire for comfort, though it
    certainly made a huge difference.

    Dunlop's first test showed that a pneumatic tire rolled far better
    than a solid tire across a barn yard, so he worked on the idea,
    persuaded some racers to try pneumatics, and succeeded because they
    soon beat riders with traditional solid and cushion tires so badly
    that anyone using the pneumatics was forced to ride with a handicap.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  6. Quoted message said:


    So I like Slime tubes better than anything that I've tried, you're
    happier with plastic strips, and Lewis likes solid airfree tires:
     http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e37844d420b29220

    There are other solutions, too.

    Carl...when my wife and son and I last rode together last summer we
    went through an unfamiliar, shady (low visibility) stretch. My son
    picked up no less than 14 goatheads on his knobbies. My wife caught
    about 8 in the fat balloony tires I put on her bike. I had...NONE.
    Put Slime-liners in his, Tuffies in hers, and I continued to ride
    naked, so to speak. What's my point? I don't know, maybe some people
    are lucky, some aren't. It seems that when it comes to goats, I'm
    lucky, when it comes to marauding Chevy Silverados...not so much.
    ABS

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    So I like Slime tubes better than anything that I've tried, you're
    happier with plastic strips, and Lewis likes solid airfree tires:
     http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e37844d420b29220

    There are other solutions, too.

    Carl...when my wife and son and I last rode together last summer we
    went through an unfamiliar, shady (low visibility) stretch. My son
    picked up no less than 14 goatheads on his knobbies. My wife caught
    about 8 in the fat balloony tires I put on her bike. I had...NONE.
    Put Slime-liners in his, Tuffies in hers, and I continued to ride
    naked, so to speak. What's my point? I don't know, maybe some people
    are lucky, some aren't. It seems that when it comes to goats, I'm
    lucky, when it comes to marauding Chevy Silverados...not so much.
    ABS

    Dear Alan,

    Sheer luck can easily explain it.

    For example, your son might have rolled right across a goathead vine
    on the edge of the road. Your wife took a line two feet away from the
    edge and missed most of it. You missed it completely because you were
    four feet from the edge.

    Another explanation involves tire styles and widths.

    Knobby tires tend to pick up and show goatheads. They're often about
    twice as wide as road tires, so they sweep a greater path, and the
    thorns can stick in three of the four sides of each knob, often
    without harming anything. (It's darned rare for a goathead to stick in
    the trailing face of a knob.)

    Big balloon tires suffer more for similar reasons. They sweep a wider
    path than high-pressure road tires, so they pick up more debris, and
    the lower pressure makes them less likely to break the thorns off.

    High pressure road tires sweep the narrowest path. They also have a
    smaller effective shoulder and edge than knobbies and squashy balloon
    tires, so they miss more of the goatheads that stick into the sides of
    the other tires.

    And narrow, high-pressure road tires often break the thorns off,
    leaving just the tips embedded. You don't see the tips unless they
    pierce the tube and you're looking for them.

    (Or unless you habitually give your tires a slow spin with the bike
    upside-down before a ride, peering at the rubber from a few inches
    away and prying the tiny thorns out with the end of a paper-clip.)

    But luck has a way of evening out, as casinos know. Whether your ride
    is 15 miles long, across the country, or just down to the corner,
    you're likely to hit a goathead if there are just a hundred random
    thorns scattered somewhere along your 8-foot wide potential path,
    since that's about 100 inches wide and your two tires sweep at least a
    1-inch wide effective path.

    Not every goathead that you hit will puncture a tube--many thorns have
    both tips on the ground and are harmless, lots of tips break off
    instead of penetrating, and others go in at an angle and aren't long
    enough to hurt anything but the tread.

    Slime tubes confuse things even more. When I take the tube I patched
    yesterday off the anvil-arm that I use for patching, I'll pump it up
    and look for other punctures--slime can seal a few holes before the
    tire finally goes flat.

    In fact, I'll go check it now . . .
    http://i31.tinypic.com/904keu.jpg

    Drat! Good thing I check after I patch. About 20 pumps with an old
    mini-pump stretches the tube enough to reveal most of the previously
    hidden holes.

    The glue should be just about tacky by now for the second patch. And
    I'll check the stupid tube again tomorrow evening, in case a third
    pinhole shows up.

    So far this century, I'm averaging about one flat every ten rides, or
    one successful goathead every 150 miles. I have patches when I'm
    flatting several times a week, then patches when I'm going a whole
    month without a flat, but the average is around 33 flats per year,
    with around 330 rides per year.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  8. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Apr 3, 1:54 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So I like Slime tubes better than anything that I've tried, you're
    happier with plastic strips, and Lewis likes solid airfree tires:
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e37844d420b29220

    Fair enough. I don't have the trouble with floppy strips that you
    cite; in my experience, after a couple dozen miles, the Tuffies are
    "seated" and tend to stay put, as long as you just pop one bead off
    the rim when replacing.

    Which you never need to do, because they are like the stone that
    repels tigers for me. That point was driven home when I bought a new
    bike with 700x32-ish tires and suffered two goathead flats in the
    first week. That was last September, and I've had one flat since
    then, which was caused by a large staple.

    I have two other wide-tire road bikes (26x1.5 and 700x37) that behave
    similarly. I also have a mountain bike (26x2-ish) that I run
    *without* Tuffies, but *with* thorn resistant tubes as an extra
    measure against pinch flats because I am a gentleman of gravity. I
    have never encountered a goathead on the trail.

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be
    interested to hear what the delta actually was if you have any
    figures. As a commuter, my bigger concern is their impact on traction
    when cornering.

  9. On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 05:26:28 -0700 (PDT), [email hidden] wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be
    interested to hear what the delta actually was if you have any
    figures. As a commuter, my bigger concern is their impact on traction
    when cornering.

    Dear Chris,

    I can't figure out where that "doubled ride time" came from, but I'd
    be interested to hear why a commuter is worried about traction on
    cornering.

    :-)

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  10. Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 05:26:28 -0700 (PDT), [email hidden] wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be
    interested to hear what the delta actually was if you have any
    figures. As a commuter, my bigger concern is their impact on traction
    when cornering.

    Dear Chris,

    I can't figure out where that "doubled ride time" came from, but I'd
    be interested to hear why a commuter is worried about traction on
    cornering.

    Oh, I know, I know! It helps avoid falling down and going boom.

    Mark J.

  11. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Apr 3, 1:54 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    > So I like Slime tubes better than anything that I've tried, you're
    > happier with plastic strips, and Lewis likes solid airfree tires:
    > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e37844d420b29220

    Fair enough. I don't have the trouble with floppy strips that you
    cite; in my experience, after a couple dozen miles, the Tuffies are
    "seated" and tend to stay put, as long as you just pop one bead off
    the rim when replacing.

    Which you never need to do, because they are like the stone that
    repels tigers for me. That point was driven home when I bought a new
    bike with 700x32-ish tires and suffered two goathead flats in the
    first week. That was last September, and I've had one flat since
    then, which was caused by a large staple.

    I have two other wide-tire road bikes (26x1.5 and 700x37) that behave
    similarly. I also have a mountain bike (26x2-ish) that I run
    *without* Tuffies, but *with* thorn resistant tubes as an extra
    measure against pinch flats because I am a gentleman of gravity. I
    have never encountered a goathead on the trail.

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be
    interested to hear what the delta actually was if you have any
    figures. As a commuter, my bigger concern is their impact on traction
    when cornering.

    Dear Chris,

    Here's a crude elapsed-time chart, with a red bar inserted to show
    where the change from Tuffy and thorn-resistant to Slime tubes
    occurred:
    http://i30.tinypic.com/og04eb.jpg

    When I switched to Slime tubes from Tuffies and thick thorn-resistant
    tubes on 01-08-2000, my average speed rose from 18.87 mph for the
    previous ~350 rides to 19.86 mph for the next ~350 rides on the same
    daily route, about three minutes faster on a 45~48 minute ride, a bit
    over 6% faster.

    The speed change was immediate and prolonged, so it's hard to argue
    that it was a new-toy effect. As usual, times grew longer at the end
    of both years with bad weather.

    As for traction, I'd be surprised if a commuter could notice any
    difference due to Tuffy strips.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  12. Colin Campbell said:
    Quoted message said:

    Yesterday, I noticed a trace of green Slime in a hole in my rear tire.

    Quoted message said:

    But the tire was holding air, so I told myself that it was just
    left-over slime from a previous flat, not from a new puncture.

    Quoted message said:

    Today, the tire still held air, but my pre-flight check forced me to
    revise my theory:
    http://i25.tinypic.com/2mzk66f.jpg
    http://i29.tinypic.com/2j1r690.jpg

    Quoted message said:

    The pump and gauge aren't attached to the valve--the pump handle was
    just a handy stand to hang the wheel.

    Quoted message said:

    The tire probably would have worked fine, but I pulled the tube for
    patching, put in another, and chalked up my 14th flat for 2008.

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,

    Quoted message said:

    Carl Fogel

    Boy, you bettah find yo'self a road to ride on!

    Fourteen flats in 93 days - congratulations. No wait, I think I mean
    commiseration.

    Carl needs to hire some folks to get out on bikes and ride his route.
    Sweepers.

  13. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be


    I can't figure out where that "doubled ride time" came from.

    In your initial response to my first post in this thread, you said:

    "I'm willing to put up with a few drops of slime in exchange for
    getting home about half the time..."

    Even when I read it, I assumed that was likely hyperbolic, but you
    *did* also say that "[Your] times improved markedly when I switched to
    Slime tubes." I just wondered if you have any numbers. Back before I
    "forgot" to reinstall my cyclocomputer, I knew my trip times pretty
    well from memory.

    Man, I don't miss those days at all.

  14. On Apr 4, 7:14 pm, Mark <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, I know, I know! It helps avoid falling down and going boom.

    Yeah, especially when the roads are covered with sand. Say, it almost
    sounds like I'm bitter about something, huh?

  15. Quoted message said:

    When I switched to Slime tubes from Tuffies and thick thorn-resistant
    tubes on 01-08-2000, my average speed rose from 18.87 mph for the
    previous ~350 rides to 19.86 mph...

    A whole buck. Eeenteresting. Thanks for that.

    Quoted message said:

    As for traction, I'd be surprised if a commuter could notice any
    difference due to Tuffy strips.

    I have to wonder. I went down on a concrete bike path last Spring.
    It was sandy and rainy. The sharp left curve comes at the end of a
    steep downhill that sends the path under a highway. I had a Michelin
    Transworld City on the front. I had a Tuffy installed, but I'm more
    suspicious of the tire; it was a "puncture resistant" flavor with a
    kevlar strip beneath the tread, giving the whole tire a distinctly
    ovoid cross-section. The tread had long vertical sipes about 2-3mm
    wide and deep. I swear I could hear the thing crawling when I'd go
    around corners.

    Now, I'm not a cornering madman. You will GIS in vain for an image of
    me tilted at 35 degrees on some winding mountain road. (And my bike
    is red, not yellow; hey, maybe that gets me my 1MPH back?) But I'm
    convinced in my lizard brain that the sipes AND the kevlar AND the
    Tuffy can't have been goodness.

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I can't believe they actually doubled your ride time, but I'd be


    I can't figure out where that "doubled ride time" came from.

    In your initial response to my first post in this thread, you said:

    "I'm willing to put up with a few drops of slime in exchange for
    getting home about half the time..."

    Even when I read it, I assumed that was likely hyperbolic, but you
    *did* also say that "[Your] times improved markedly when I switched to
    Slime tubes." I just wondered if you have any numbers. Back before I
    "forgot" to reinstall my cyclocomputer, I knew my trip times pretty
    well from memory.

    Man, I don't miss those days at all.

    Dear Chris,

    There's a difference between "getting home about half the time" and
    "getting home _in_ about half the time."

    As I explained, about half the time, I get home without having to stop
    and fix a flat--I notice the leak the next day before I leave, which
    was how this thread began.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  17. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When I switched to Slime tubes from Tuffies and thick thorn-resistant
    tubes on 01-08-2000, my average speed rose from 18.87 mph for the
    previous ~350 rides to 19.86 mph...

    A whole buck. Eeenteresting. Thanks for that.

    Quoted message said:

    As for traction, I'd be surprised if a commuter could notice any
    difference due to Tuffy strips.

    I have to wonder. I went down on a concrete bike path last Spring.
    It was sandy and rainy. The sharp left curve comes at the end of a
    steep downhill that sends the path under a highway. I had a Michelin
    Transworld City on the front. I had a Tuffy installed, but I'm more
    suspicious of the tire; it was a "puncture resistant" flavor with a
    kevlar strip beneath the tread, giving the whole tire a distinctly
    ovoid cross-section. The tread had long vertical sipes about 2-3mm
    wide and deep. I swear I could hear the thing crawling when I'd go
    around corners.

    Now, I'm not a cornering madman. You will GIS in vain for an image of
    me tilted at 35 degrees on some winding mountain road. (And my bike
    is red, not yellow; hey, maybe that gets me my 1MPH back?) But I'm
    convinced in my lizard brain that the sipes AND the kevlar AND the
    Tuffy can't have been goodness.

    You are on a slippery slope. Turn back while you can.
    Otherwise you will be paying $35 US or more each for 25
    mm skins, and blasting around those turns.

    --
    Michael Press

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