When Science has not the answer ??

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well can anyone really tell me, where one turns to?

Rod.

Science is at its most interesting when it has only questions.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%Z5rb.2482$aT.466@news-
server.bigpond.net.au...

Quoted message said:

Well can anyone really tell me, where one turns to?

Rod.

Science is at its most interesting when it has only questions.

--Rich

It is also at its most harmless. Is that a helpful answer? Eat ginseng and thrive!

This guy asked a fair question, Rich.

Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that doesn't
resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the innocents.

That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would refrain
from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?

Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?

If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs and
treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have more
interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.

Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could write
something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.

That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed the
need in here.

Mike

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This guy asked a fair question, Rich.

Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that doesn't
resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the innocents.

That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would
refrain from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?

Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?

What situation? No "situation" has been described.

Quoted message said:

If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs and
treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have more
interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.

Who said the questioner has a mortal prognosis. Maybe he's just frustrated by his jock itch.

Quoted message said:

Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could
write something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.

I am always willing to politely give information when asked for it. But what "information" really
asked for here? Jan will scream "CHECK THE TEETH!" and Dave will try to turn the questioner into
an MLM downline ginseng salesman, but nobody could give a truly useful, compassionate answer to
this post.

Quoted message said:

That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed
the need in here.

Mike

Lighten up, Mike. The guy made a subtle slur on science. He gave no detail of what questions he
believes science has failed to answer, and thus is not really seeking legitimate advice. He just
wants to repeat that popular altie implication that if science does not have the answers to
everything, then perhaps they have the answers to nothing. My answer was not flippant. It reiterates
that science is a dynamic process and there is joy in exploring the as yet undiscovered nature of
the universe.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This guy asked a fair question, Rich.

Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that
doesn't resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the
innocents.

That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would
refrain from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?

Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?

What situation? No "situation" has been described.

Quoted message said:

If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs
and treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have
more interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.

Who said the questioner has a mortal prognosis. Maybe he's just frustrated by his jock itch.

Quoted message said:

Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could
write something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.

I am always willing to politely give information when asked for it. But

what

Quoted message said:

"information" really asked for here? Jan will scream "CHECK THE TEETH!"

and

Quoted message said:

Dave will try to turn the questioner into an MLM downline ginseng

salesman,

Quoted message said:

but nobody could give a truly useful, compassionate answer to this post.

Quoted message said:

That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed
the need in here.

Mike

Lighten up, Mike. The guy made a subtle slur on science. He gave no detail of what questions he
believes science has failed to answer, and thus is

not

Quoted message said:

really seeking legitimate advice. He just wants to repeat that popular

altie

Quoted message said:

implication that if science does not have the answers to everything, then perhaps they have the
answers to nothing. My answer was not flippant. It reiterates that science is a dynamic process
and there is joy in exploring the as yet undiscovered nature of the universe.

--Rich

I know there must be a pony in here somwhere!

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Its true, medical science knows 'nuts' as far as mankind sickness is concern. It is only with the
help from modern technology, that medical science has comes this far.

Oh, bullocks. Medical technology is an integral part of the medical practice. Saying that it's the
technology, not the science is denying the science in technology.

Quoted message said:

People overhere may not agree with my statement.

Probably not, since it's a [censored] statment.

Quoted message said:

For those who disagree, Okay!! any medical people around? pls enlighten us on how a common sore-
throat problem comeabout?

Why? Can't read a medical text for yourself?

Quoted message said:

If any medical people could explained the logic on how a sore-throat comeabout, I'll tell you
'man, medical science is seriously on the way in finding a comprehensive cure for cancer.

Understanding how a sore throat comes about (I take it that that's what you mean with your
sentence) has little to do with understanding cancer. An expert on viruses such as yourself should
understand that.

Quoted message said:

Well, as what it is now, medical science is still searching for cure on cancer.

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable, but science is always looking for
better ways. But, please show me objective evidence that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per
group will do, alpha=0.05, more than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
variation.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning, 'cut
and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating a cancer.

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating cancer.

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective evidence that you can cure
cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05, more than 15% improvement above the placebo
group and corrected for variation.

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
full life as

science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Danny Yang

An Asian Holistic Physician cum Herbalist

Quoted message said:

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
and pence

(R. Waters)

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating
a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about Artemissia annua? Oh,
and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of curare? What do you think the source for
vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
commenting on it.

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in
treating cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure] in treating cancer is
because not all cancers are created equal, the cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the
behaviour of the cells in the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

Quoted message said:

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
full life as

Quoted message said:

science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major journal.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating
a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy, are
just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about Artemissia annua? Oh,
and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of curare? What do you think the source for
vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science
before commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program, but, that doean't
play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by the sickness. It is
after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut and paste' method of
surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and when the cancer is in
control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous organ and helping
in its functioning. In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in
control. Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer sickness
on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that, natural herbs
can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure] in treating cancer is
because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.

Quoted message said:

cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the cells in the cancer, also when
metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour.
Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
full life as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem, then,
you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout. This sort of idealogy appply
to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must understand the root of the problem first,
then you are able to rectify its fault.

You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.

Quoted message said:

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
and pence

(R. Waters)

On 13 Nov 2003 23:42:28 -0800, [email hidden] (yansimon52)

Quoted message said:

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

Perception creates its own reality.

Aloha,

Rich
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)
> For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on
treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with

anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy,
are just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!

Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
germ/bad germ" principle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel?
Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program,

Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.

Quoted message said:

but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by the
sickness. It is after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut and
paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and when the
cancer is in control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous
organ and helping in its functioning.

I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression on me that you think
that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not in wide spread use as a primary cancer
treatment. Is that correct? If so, you don't know your herbs.

Quoted message said:

In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.

How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?

Quoted message said:

Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory. The
stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff. It
is the natural stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is
standardized. That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you
don't know much about cancer or herbs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"

[cure]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.

BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer patients must be
administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive appropriate treatment, like in the case of
bonemarrow transplant.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the

cells in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part
dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might be serious. Please, learn
some basic biochem and learn to understand what is known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is an
interesting topic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but science
> is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

> that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,

alpha=0.05,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more

Quoted message said:

> than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live
a full life as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem,
then, you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout.

Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal. If
you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle in a
large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.

Quoted message said:

This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must understand
the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.

Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of ras
oncogenes going out of control. An introductory course on biochem will preovide you with enough
background in DNA and immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

Quoted message said:

You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.

Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll be looking in the
literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24 months, so the first
paper could be out in 36. I'll be waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> "Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>
> (snip)
> > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
>
> Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
> 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on
> treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with

anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy,
are just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!

Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
germ/bad germ" principle.

The good germ killing bad germ treatment concept is part of medical science (or others ie. TCM
treatment method on infectious sickness) treat5ment regiment on cancer treatment. Of course, beside
this good germ/bad germ tackled by powerful antibiotics, there are other method such as, 'burning
method' thru chemotherapy or radiation and lastly, when thing got out of hand, usually, in the very
late stage, immediate surgery (thru the 'cut and paste'😉 need apply. Who do not know about this sort
very direct treatment method by medical science.It is easy to understand it, by basing on simple
logic lah!! The question here is, with all these excutioning of treatment method by medical science,
does medical science REALLY understood the root of the problem that caused cancer.

I doubt so. cause, if they )MS) are so sure, they would had by now, got a cure to treat any sort of
cancer problem. They are still searching for a comprehensive cure for cancer.

Just for your info, in holistic healing, we emphasis alot on the state of the purity blood system,
cause, to stay in good health, one must guard jeaously the purity of your blood system to a degree
where even, the taste of of your blood is tasteless, where in normal case, it is usually saltish.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel?
Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program,

Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.

Quoted message said:

but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by
the sickness. It is after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut
and paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and
when the cancer is in control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular
cancerous organ and helping in its functioning.

I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression on me that you think
that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not in wide spread use as a primary cancer
treatment. Is that correct? If so, you don't know your herbs.

Treating cancer by medical science is a systemic process. Firstly, thru burning(chemo or radiation)
and applying powerful antibiotics are the first treatment regiment to suppress the exodus of
cancerous T-cells. When thing settle down, then, you are talking about having those herbal drug
(with their respective minierals) to help the proper functioning of that particular inffected organ.
You see, it is a well known fact, that different organ functioning depend on different minerals to
get started. So the respective minerals/herbal drug (from different herbal plant) were used to help
the proper functioning of that infected cancerous organ at the recuperating period.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.

How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?

I am the Authority on herbal plant such as, my recent discovery in separating these herbal plants
into 2 categories, either as 'orthodox' or 'unorthodox' category. Since, cancer is an 'orthodox
sickness' it should be treated with 'orthodox herbs', herbs that depend alot of sunlight for
their growth.

I hope you what I am saying.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory. The
stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff.
It is the natural stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is
standardized. That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you
don't know much about cancer or herbs.

What do you really know about herbs? Yes, you are just talking about those herbal plants active
principle, that's all. You don't even know or aware of that, almost all temperate herbs come with
alot of rich minerals as compared to tropical herbal plants that come with alot of 'rich enzymes'.
Why is it so?

You don't even know that, one must not die die use antibiotic, just to 'flush away' germs 'swimming'
within your blood system, of course, there are other alternatives to antibiotic, to do the same job.
This ignorant attitude by medical science in abusing the use on antibiotic has up-to-date,
contributed to the recent 'antibiotic resistant' cases, across the globe. Do you agree with that?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
> cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"

[cure]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.

BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer patients must be
administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive appropriate treatment, like in the case
of bonemarrow transplant.

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cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the

cells in

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the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part
dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might be serious. Please,
learn some basic biochem and learn to understand what is known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is
an interesting topic.

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> but science
> > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

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> > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,

alpha=0.05, more

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> > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

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>
> We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing
> this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you
> can live a full life as

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> science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem,
then, you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout.

Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal. If
you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle in a
large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.

Ironically, holistic healing is about looking at the cause of the sickness on the whole. WE search
for the 'end-product' just like a mechanic looking on the health of the engine is by looking at
those 'burnt carbon's tar' in a spark plug. Whether there are 'oil' sign of leakage from broken
piston's ring, whitish tar, sign of too much petrol proportion, something to do with proper
functioning of the carburettor and so on.

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This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must
understand the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.

Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of ras
oncogenes going out of control. An introductory course on biochem will preovide you with enough
background in DNA and immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

As alternative healer, we don't work with moodern technology's eletronic equipments. To see the
state on one's health, we look for clues ie. its end product such as, urine, appetite and excretas.
As I would like to say, alternative healer don't make money, they were not so recognised offically,
cause, they don't come with facts.

In some cases where, treating some airborne viruses, what we need to do is, to identify the group's
leader (head of those clusters of airborne viruses) and kill it by applying the element of fire. How
to put this sort of tretment in paper.

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You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.

Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll be looking in the
literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24 months, so the first
paper could be out in 36. I'll be waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

Treating orthodox sicknesses ie. cancer is easily treatable as compared in treating modern days
mostly virus derived sickness ie. hepatitis or aids.Treating 'unorthodox sickness' is more
challenging. Why I say that?

You see, to treat a cough problem, there are hundred of herbal plants that can treat coughing
problem. In other word, you see one, you see all, what is so interesting about it. In the case in
treating 'unorthodox sicknesses', there are only a handful of unorthodox herbal plants that can do
the job. Not only that, its preparation is also, very unusual, different from the preparation on
temperate herbs where, they normally dried it, under the Sun.

If, you are in the stage of writing a medical journal, and if, you think that, my kind of work can
contribute to your work, I'll be glad to assist you on that.

Have a nice day, nice talking to you.

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--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
and pence

(R. Waters)

"yansimon52" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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> yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > "Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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> >

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Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
germ/bad germ" principle.

The good germ killing bad germ treatment concept is part of medical science (or others ie. TCM
treatment method on infectious sickness) treat5ment regiment on cancer treatment.

Learn about medical science and treatment regimens before opening you yap about things you so
blatantly obvious don't understand.

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Of course, beside this good germ/bad germ tackled by powerful antibiotics, there are other method
such as, 'burning method' thru chemotherapy or radiation and lastly, when thing got out of hand,
usually, in the very late stage, immediate surgery (thru the 'cut and paste'😉 need apply.

Yes, radiation therapy, chemo therapy and surgery are indeed applied and with great success in some
cancers. Surgery and chemo can be curative as evidenced by clinical research, it also can be
palliative. Look in pubmed if you want to see studies on epidemiology of cancer. I agree it's not an
ideal mode of therapy and I agree that there great downsides to all three of them. But at least it
works and that it works can be reproducibly shown in both large patient groups as well as
mechanistic laboratory studies. What I demand of you, if you claim to be able to cure cancer: show
it with reproducible, good quality studies. If your regimen is as powerful as claim it to be, show
it. Put up or shut up.

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Who do not know about this sort very direct treatment method by medical science.It is easy to
understand it, by basing on simple logic lah!!

Quit backpaddling. I never denied that chemo, surgery and radiation are commonly used as cerative
treatment in many cancers. I deny that AB's are an integral part of oncology treatment.

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The question here is, with all these excutioning of treatment method by medical science, does
medical science REALLY understood the root of the problem that caused cancer.

Not really, no. That's why there so much research going on in oncology both basic research as well
as applied clinical research to introduce the fundamental concepts that were unravelled in the lab.
Science is, will always be and always has been a very tedious process.

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I doubt so. cause, if they )MS) are so sure, they would had by now, got a cure to treat any sort
of cancer problem. They are still searching for a comprehensive cure for cancer.

From this it seems that you think that all cancers are somehow alike. Well, most of the evidence is
that most cancers are unique in themselves and are often difficult to compare. Not so much because
the mechanism of carcinogenesis will be so different between cancer-types, but the cells that
constitute the tumours can be so different in behaviour, have different vulnerabilities and need
different appraoches to combat the tumour and leave as much as possible of the healthy tissue
intact. That's an important reason why some cancers are more easily treated than others and why some
cancers can be cured in the vast majority of cases and other can't be cured in the vast majority of
cases. So, yeah, "the" cure for cancer isn't there and I'm actually skeptical that such a common
cure will be found in the near future but then again, I don't claim to be a cancer expert.

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Just for your info, in holistic healing, we emphasis alot on the state of the purity blood system,

"purity of blood system" What is "purity of bloodsystem"! It's a non-term, pseudo scientific BS to
make it attractive to the gullible, like Jan and Carole. A complex matrix like blood can't be
regarded as "pure" in any practical sense of the word.

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cause, to stay in good health, one must guard jeaously the purity of your blood system to a degree
where even, the taste of of your blood is tasteless, where in normal case, it is usually saltish.

Yeah, and it should be salty; it contains 9 grams of sodium chloride woth of salts per liter!

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I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the

impression

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on me that you think that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are

not

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in wide spread use as a primary cancer treatment. Is that correct? If

so,

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you don't know your herbs.

Treating cancer by medical science is a systemic process.

Yeah, cancer itself is a systemic process but I get the impression that your notion of the word
"systemic" may be different from mine. To me systemic is pretty much as opposed to local or topical.

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Firstly, thru burning(chemo or radiation) and applying powerful antibiotics are

There you go with your AB again....

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the first treatment regiment to suppress the exodus of cancerous T-cells.

Cancerous T-cells...are you talking about cutaneous T-cell lymphoma specificly? Do you mean
peripheral T-cell lymphoma? What? Be specific.

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When thing settle down, then, you are talking about having those herbal drug (with their
respective minierals) to help the proper functioning of that particular inffected organ.

[censored]. Paclitaxel comes form taxus brevifolia and both vinblastine and vincrystin come from Vinca
spp. which are periwinkle plants. And these are only exaples, there are far more plants that provide
anti-cancer agents, anti-astma treatments etc.The notion that medical or pharmaceutical science is
not interested in plants, animals, mineral and other sources besides the laboratory is simply false.
And what do you mean with the respective minerals of herbal drugs?

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You see, it is a well known fact, that different organ functioning depend on different minerals to
get started. So the respective minerals/herbal drug (from different herbal plant) were used to
help the proper functioning of that infected cancerous organ at the recuperating period.

This is so shockingly filled with a kinds of excrement running through your teath it's not worth
going into.

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In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.

How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?

I am the Authority on herbal plant such as, my recent discovery in separating these herbal plants
into 2 categories, either as 'orthodox' or 'unorthodox' category.

Oh yeah, you are an authority on herbaldrugs yet you don't know the first thing about how herbs in
the real world are used. LOL!

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Since, cancer is an 'orthodox sickness' it should be treated with 'orthodox herbs', herbs that
depend alot of sunlight for their growth.

I hope you what I am saying.

Yeah, and a prescription of Haldol(r) has been known to help in some of the cases where people
suffered from magical thinking along with a touch of megalomania.

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Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory.
The stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural
stuff. It is the natu

ral

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stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is standardized.
That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you don't know
much about cancer or

herbs.

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What do you really know about herbs? Yes, you are just talking about those herbal plants active
principle, that's all.

Well, that's exactly what is important about these plants if you're interested in making as simple a
formulation as you can to treat illness. There are real dangers associated with taking complex
herbals, especially if you're on other medication too or happen to be suseptible to one or more of
the plant's constituents.

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You don't even know or aware of that, almost all temperate herbs come with alot of rich minerals
as compared to tropical herbal plants that come with alot of 'rich enzymes'. Why is it so?

Because what you're saying is not in this reality but in some other reality, unforeseen by either
the many worlds interpretation of QM and the far out implications of relativistic effects at the
event horizon of the central black hole that fills your brain?

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You don't even know that, one must not die die use antibiotic, just to 'flush away' germs
'swimming' within your blood system, of course, there are other alternatives to antibiotic, to do
the same job.

I'm sorry, but obviously the concept of anti-biotics is totally lost on you. They don't "flush out"
germs, they kill germs if and when used appropriately. And, luckily, most germs donot swin around in
the blood so also what germs do and they are most commonly found is totally lost on you. The thought
of people actually turning to the likes of you for any kind of treatment is quite frightning.

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This ignorant attitude by medical science in abusing the use on antibiotic has up-to-date,
contributed to the recent 'antibiotic resistant' cases, across the globe. Do you agree with that?

This last part I must agree with. Also in farming far too many AB's have been used (and are still
used in some cases) incorrectly and in many countries, including the U.S. and Europe, AB's have long
been used incorrectly in medicine leading to multiple resistant strains, Luckily, there are many
approaches under investigation like e.g. peptidomimetics, but these alternative aren't here yet.

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Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal.
If you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle
in a large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.

Ironically, holistic healing is about looking at the cause of the sickness on the whole. WE search
for the 'end-product' just like a mechanic looking on the health of the engine is by looking at
those 'burnt carbon's tar' in a spark plug. Whether there are 'oil' sign of leakage from broken
piston's ring, whitish tar, sign of too much petrol proportion, something to do with proper
functioning of the carburettor and so on.

comparing medical science to mechanics is simply wrong and a faulty analogy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must
understand the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.

Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of
ras oncogenes going out of control. An

introductory

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course on biochem will preovide you with enough background in DNA and immunology to understand
introductory texts in oncology.

As alternative healer, we don't work with moodern technology's eletronic equipments.

Many do. Electroacupuncture comes to mind, Hulda's zapper, iriscopy, etc.

Quoted message said:

To see the state on one's health, we look for clues ie. its end product such as, urine, appetite
and excretas. As I would like to say, alternative healer don't make money, they were not so
recognised offically, cause, they don't come with facts.

That's right, facts are far and wide apart with a lot of pseudoscience and FUD in between.

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In some cases where, treating some airborne viruses, what we need to do is, to identify the
group's leader (head of those clusters of airborne viruses)

OH PLEASE! The mere thought of sentient viruses adhering to the wants of a "group leader" is
laughable.

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and kill it by applying the element of fire.

Oh? yeah! Cut and Burn, right?

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How to put this sort of tretment in paper.

Just make a note that all experiments were done under investigator LSD premedication.

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You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS)
cannot promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.

Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and

I'll

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be looking in the literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24
months, so the first paper could be out in 36. I'll

be

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waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

Treating orthodox sicknesses ie. cancer is easily treatable as compared in treating modern days
mostly virus derived sickness ie. hepatitis or aids.Treating 'unorthodox sickness' is more
challenging. Why I say that?

Because the mushrooms have been messing with your mind, no doubt.

Quoted message said:

You see, to treat a cough problem, there are hundred of herbal plants that can treat coughing
problem. In other word, you see one, you see all, what is so interesting about it. In the case in
treating 'unorthodox sicknesses', there are only a handful of unorthodox herbal plants that can do
the job. Not only that, its preparation is also, very unusual, different from the preparation on
temperate herbs where, they normally dried it, under the Sun.

If, you are in the stage of writing a medical journal, and if, you think that, my kind of work can
contribute to your work, I'll be glad to assist you on that.

Well, I am writing two papers, but I think I'll decline your offer, I'll write my own.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed It'll look great on the TV