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[censored] the UCI

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Road Cycling
Published
28 February 2008
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29 February 2008
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  1. That's what the teams all just said.

    "After consulting with its member teams, the International Association
    of Professional Cycling teams (AIGCP) announced Wednesday that a
    unanimous decision had been reached to support participation in Paris-
    Nice. The decision, another round in the ongoing dispute between the
    UCI and Grand Tour organisers, comes after the UCI asked all
    professional teams to boycott this year's event, which it is not
    recognizing on its calendar."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/feb08/feb28news

    You dumbasses had it nailed. Excluding astana would kill the ASO.

  2. On Feb 28, 6:44 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    That's what the teams all just said.

    "After consulting with its member teams, the International Association
    of Professional Cycling teams (AIGCP) announced Wednesday that a
    unanimous decision had been reached to support participation in Paris-
    Nice. The decision, another round in the ongoing dispute between the
    UCI and Grand Tour organisers, comes after the UCI asked all
    professional teams to boycott this year's event, which it is not
    recognizing on its calendar."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/feb08/feb28news

    You dumbasses had it nailed. Excluding astana would kill the ASO.

    The Paris-Nice "out-of-competition" doping tests would make things
    interesting, although just a rumour at this point. On any given
    stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    The doping violations won't stick, and it will probably do nothing but
    [censored] the riders. I'm no fan of the ASO, but the UCI should
    rethink this (if the rumours turn out to be true and they are
    considering this).

    Anyone smart on the dope testing regs? Can the UCI do this?

  3. Quoted message said:

    On Feb 28, 6:44 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    That's what the teams all just said.

    Quoted message said:

    "After consulting with its member teams, the International Association
    of Professional Cycling teams (AIGCP) announced Wednesday that a
    unanimous decision had been reached to support participation in Paris-
    Nice. The decision, another round in the ongoing dispute between the
    UCI and Grand Tour organisers, comes after the UCI asked all
    professional teams to boycott this year's event, which it is not
    recognizing on its calendar."

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/feb08/feb28news

    Quoted message said:

    You dumbasses had it nailed. Excluding astana would kill the ASO.

    The Paris-Nice "out-of-competition" doping tests would make things
    interesting, although just a rumour at this point. On any given
    stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    The doping violations won't stick, and it will probably do nothing but
    [censored] the riders. I'm no fan of the ASO, but the UCI should
    rethink this (if the rumours turn out to be true and they are
    considering this).

    I'm guessing an ASO doping violation can be enforced any way they
    want. I have no idea if the UCI will react to this.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone smart on the dope testing regs? Can the UCI do this?

    Do what ? Not sanction Paris-NIce ? yes they can.

  4. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    On Feb 28, 6:44 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    That's what the teams all just said.

    "After consulting with its member teams, the International Association
    of Professional Cycling teams (AIGCP) announced Wednesday that a
    unanimous decision had been reached to support participation in Paris-
    Nice. The decision, another round in the ongoing dispute between the
    UCI and Grand Tour organisers, comes after the UCI asked all
    professional teams to boycott this year's event, which it is not
    recognizing on its calendar."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/feb08/feb28news

    You dumbasses had it nailed. Excluding astana would kill the ASO.

    The Paris-Nice "out-of-competition" doping tests would make things
    interesting, although just a rumour at this point. On any given
    stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    Oh, I bet the ASO would _love_ to take anything that stupid to the Court
    of Arbitration for Sport. I doubt pulling that sort of [censored] couldn't
    survive even the simplest Natural Justice test. Sandy?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
    "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

  5. Ryan Cousineau said:
    Quoted message said:

    stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    Oh, I bet the ASO would _love_ to take anything that stupid to the Court
    of Arbitration for Sport. I doubt pulling that sort of [censored] couldn't
    survive even the simplest Natural Justice test. Sandy?

    Whachutalkinbout? As a rider, I'd like those odds: either refuse the
    dope test or drop out of the race.

  6. Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
    Ted van de Weteringe <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
    déclaré :

    Quoted message said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:
    Quoted message said:

    stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    Oh, I bet the ASO would _love_ to take anything that stupid to the
    Court of Arbitration for Sport. I doubt pulling that sort of [censored]
    couldn't survive even the simplest Natural Justice test. Sandy?

    Whachutalkinbout? As a rider, I'd like those odds: either refuse the
    dope test or drop out of the race.

    I am troubled that there might be any impression that the TAS has justice as
    a goal. Most tribunals, governmental or private (such as an ICC panel)
    refer to a body of public law chosen by the parties to the arbitration. A
    TAS
    panel is not obligated in this way. Its entire purview is the application
    of private regulation to a dispute. These private regulations, in our
    sport, are those of the UCI, explicitly. If, for example, a national
    federation comes to a decision that the UCI does not approve, the UCI may
    bring the federation's decision to the TAS under appeal. The idea that
    having "hearings" that follow some procedural norms, then the option of an
    "appeal" to a "Court" or "Tribunal" at an "Arbitration" falsely leads one to
    think that there is conventional jurisprudence at work, when this is
    entirely not the case.

    For those who followed the Landis matter (I did), one could have an
    impression that the panel was circumspect in conducting the process. I
    applaud their efforts, but I want to remind that they had already undertaken
    to apply rules which IMHO are abominably warped in favor of punishment, with
    all
    presumptions falling in favor of finding violations, regardless of
    procedural anomalies. I won't find fault with the result nor with the
    correctness of the panel. But the entire process is loaded to convict, and
    the TAS is designed to confirm convictions, not to do any sort of Natural
    Justice.

    What has been only modestly challenged is whether the TAS is the type of
    private arbitral environment whose decisions may be honored internationally
    in courts of law. The lawyer Kashechkin had, then fired, is the only one
    who has brought such
    a challenge, successfully, when it came to employment practices, and that
    has changed a great deal in the world of international football.
    --
    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

    "Le Vin est la plus saine et la plus hygiénique des boissons."
    - Louis Pasteur

  7. Sandy said:

    Dans le message denews:[email hidden],
    Ted van de Weteringe <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
    déclaré :

    Quoted message said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:

    > stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    > dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh, I bet the ASO would _love_ to take anything that stupid to the
    Court of Arbitration for Sport. I doubt pulling that sort of [censored]
    couldn't survive even the simplest Natural Justice test. Sandy?

    Quoted message said:

    Whachutalkinbout? As a rider, I'd like those odds: either refuse the
    dope test or drop out of the race.

    I am troubled that there might be any impression that the TAS has justice as
    a goal. Most tribunals, governmental or private (such as an ICC panel)
    refer to a body of public law chosen by the parties to the arbitration. A
    TAS
    panel is not obligated in this way. Its entire purview is the application
    of private regulation to a dispute. These private regulations, in our
    sport, are those of the UCI, explicitly.

    dumbass,

    correct. the point of CAS is to ensure that the NGBs uphold the UCI
    rules, but it goes both ways.

    if an NGB deals too leniently with an athlete the UCI can appeal the
    ruling through CAS, but if an athlete is dealt too harshly with (such
    as say not recognizing legitimate TUEs) the UCI can (and should)
    appeal through CAS to get the NGB to conform.

  8. Dans le message de
    news:[email hidden],
    [email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

    Quoted message said:
    Sandy said:

    Dans le message denews:[email hidden],
    Ted van de Weteringe <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et
    puis a déclaré :

    Quoted message said:

    Ryan Cousineau wrote:
    >> stage, riders may have to choose between refusing a drug test or
    >> dropping out of Paris-Nice.

    Quoted message said:

    > Oh, I bet the ASO would _love_ to take anything that stupid to the
    > Court of Arbitration for Sport. I doubt pulling that sort of [censored]
    > couldn't survive even the simplest Natural Justice test. Sandy?

    Quoted message said:

    Whachutalkinbout? As a rider, I'd like those odds: either refuse the
    dope test or drop out of the race.

    I am troubled that there might be any impression that the TAS has
    justice as a goal. Most tribunals, governmental or private (such as
    an ICC panel) refer to a body of public law chosen by the parties to
    the arbitration. A TAS
    panel is not obligated in this way. Its entire purview is the
    application of private regulation to a dispute. These private
    regulations, in our sport, are those of the UCI, explicitly.

    dumbass,

    correct. the point of CAS is to ensure that the NGBs uphold the UCI
    rules, but it goes both ways.

    if an NGB deals too leniently with an athlete the UCI can appeal the
    ruling through CAS, but if an athlete is dealt too harshly with (such
    as say not recognizing legitimate TUEs) the UCI can (and should)
    appeal through CAS to get the NGB to conform.

    I am troubled to think you find this to be a good thing.

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