Learning Clipless

Quoted message said:

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I dunno, I've fallen exactly 0 times with clipless pedals in 9 years of
using them, including during the learning experience.

"John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

When I initially changed over to SPD pedals, I fell a couple times. I take
FULL responsibility for those falls. I was just being stupid, and not paying
enough attention, to what I was doing.

Using clipless pedals is like wisdom. This knowledge cannot be transferred.
Clipless pedals must be experienced. There is no shortcut. No surrogates
allowed.

J.

Quoted message said:

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I am new to clipless pedals, and I have one fall under my belt.. I'm
trying to avoid
the second one. :-)

Deep Survival - I thought that was a great book

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:53:34 -0800 (PST), Aaron <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I am new to clipless pedals, and I have one fall under my belt.. I'm
trying to avoid the second one. :-)

I fell FAR more frequently attempting to get out of toestraps/clips
than with LOOK/SPD cliipless system. IMHO clipless pedals are one of
the major advances in bicycling tech in the modern era.

John Everett said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I'm remembering an old thread here in which there was some general agreement
that people tended to fall 3 times.

However, I only fell twice while getting used to clipless, so there's
another data point for Gonzales.

--
Mike Kruger
Say not always what you know, but always know what you say.
Claudius; 10 BC-AD 54, Roman Emperor

John Everett said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I was surprised at how easy and comfortable it is to ride with cleated
shoes. I performed a super slow mo failed track stand fall once and
have had a few close calls when something unexpected happened, but they
are great to use. I skipped toe clip pedals going from platform pedals
to the Look-style cleats. The secret for me was doing the same thing
every time I clip up and unclip.

Rex Kerr said:

I dunno, I've fallen exactly 0 times with clipless pedals in 9 years of
using them, including during the learning experience.

Yep, I've had zero falls caused by clipless (going back to the early
'90s), but one fall due to clips and straps.

My wife started using SPDs a year or so ago, and had two or three
falls.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.

Am I the only one that only seems to fall when standing still? I've
yet to fall due to clipless while riding, but I seem to tip over if
I'm not paying attention and try to move around while standing. Maybe
it's not painful enough to make my mind learn that I have to unclip
the other shoe before I dismount.

Art Harris said:

Yep, I've had zero falls caused by clipless (going back to the early
'90s), but one fall due to clips and straps.

My wife started using SPDs a year or so ago, and had two or three
falls.

Clips and straps were much worse. I never fell, but had many more
uncomfortable close calls when using them, especially when it was
raining and my shoe and the strap got wet!! They're much less
predictable. For that reason I tell people to forgo the straps and go
straight to clipless even though they seem less intimidated by the
straps (as was I).

-Rex

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

John Everett said:

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I have been using clipless for 8 years and have never fallen because
of them. Maybe a few close calls but I have always stayed upright.
Never fell with strap type pedals either.

I have , however, found a way to crash in almost every other way
known to cyclists. LOL.

Fritz

When I rode with toe clips (way back when) I also used cleats. I had to
with my exagerated ankling motion or I would pull out on a good upgrade,
so I would also have to ride with them tight, even in traffic.

As a resut, I devised the method of unclipping by first angling then
twisting my foot outwards, so even if I didn't have time to release the
straps I would still pry them open enough to get out.

This motion transfered itself to clipless pedals very easilly, so no
"Artie Johnsons" for me.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

catzz66 said:

I was surprised at how easy and comfortable it is to ride with cleated
shoes. I performed a super slow mo failed track stand fall once and
have had a few close calls when something unexpected happened

It's the technique (or lack thereof!) when something unexpected
happens, which caused my last fall. Due to faulty traffic signals, a
tram and I both had a green light at the same time, and it came
thundering up on me unexpectedly. I managed to brake to a stop in
time, but was so startled that I forgot to release my shoes.

Art Harris said:

Rex Kerr said:

I dunno, I've fallen exactly 0 times with clipless pedals in 9 years of
using them, including during the learning experience.

Yep, I've had zero falls caused by clipless (going back to the early
'90s), but one fall due to clips and straps.

I had several falls with clips and straps, even though I had loosened
the strap my shoe hung up enough that I went over before I could get it
out. Good riddance to the things I say.

My only problem with clipless was riding a bicycle with supposedly SPD
compatible Wellgo pedals that would not let go the way they were
supposed to.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

John Everett said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

The most difficult issue with clipless pedals for me is remembering NOT
to un-clip when riding a trike.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

It was 2 or 3 for me. The first was in a college parking lot after I rode
through the trails in nearby woods. Of course, there were many females
around to witness it. You would think I would have never fallen again,
but...

"ZBicyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Everett said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

I'm remembering an old thread here in which there was some general
agreement that people tended to fall 3 times.

However, I only fell twice while getting used to clipless, so there's
another data point for Gonzales.

--
Mike Kruger
Say not always what you know, but always know what you say.
Claudius; 10 BC-AD 54, Roman Emperor

John Everett said:

I'm currently reading a book called "Deep Survival - Who Lives, Who
Dies, and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. The following is excerpted
(without permission).

"When I was teaching my daughter Amelia how to snowboard, she caught
her edge exactly twice and never did it again. When you catch the
downhill edge of your snowboard, it slams you to the ground with such
force you feel as if somebody just dropped a safe on you. It hurts
everywhere. After the first time you do it, you have to think
consciously about tensing the muscles in your legs to keep your edge
up as you ride. Then you get tired, lazy, or distracted, you catch
your edge again, and it practically knocks you out. Generally, after
that second experience, you have developed a deeply ingrained
emotional bookmark. Then, whenever you start to relax those muscles,
you get a really bad feeling, like somebody's going to drop a safe on
you, and those muscles tighten right up. You never have to think about
it again."

I was reminded that when I started using clipless pedals about twenty
years ago I performed the old horizontal track stand exactly twice.
Then when I introduced my SO to clipless she also fell twice. Neither
of us can remember ever doing it again.

I'm wondering if this is typical. Is Gonzales on to something?

--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

Back when I had clips and straps, I usually kept them too tight. Once
I got off the bike, and since my feet fell asleep, took a half a step
and fell to the ground. Then the pins and needles started. Kept them a
little bit looser after that!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Art Harris said:

Rex Kerr said:

I dunno, I've fallen exactly 0 times with clipless pedals in 9 years of
using them, including during the learning experience.

Yep, I've had zero falls caused by clipless (going back to the early
'90s), but one fall due to clips and straps.

I had several falls with clips and straps, even though I had loosened
the strap my shoe hung up enough that I went over before I could get it
out. Good riddance to the things I say.

It would take a total schlemiel or somebody with duck feet
to get his flat-soled, uncleated street shoes hung-up on
my plastic, wide toe-box MTB clips & cordura straps.
<shrug> What can I say? They work, and they work safely
for me. And the clips provide the additional advantage
of serving as armatures around which I wrap lengths of
cut-off inner tube (attached w/ small zipties) to keep my
feet dry in the rain, and warm in the cold wind, so I don't
need to buy special shoes which need special booties in
adverse weather.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Art Harris said:

Rex Kerr wrote:
> I dunno, I've fallen exactly 0 times with clipless pedals in 9 years of
> using them, including during the learning experience.
>
Yep, I've had zero falls caused by clipless (going back to the early
'90s), but one fall due to clips and straps.

I had several falls with clips and straps, even though I had loosened
the strap my shoe hung up enough that I went over before I could get it
out. Good riddance to the things I say.

It would take a total schlemiel or somebody with duck feet
to get his flat-soled, uncleated street shoes hung-up on
my plastic, wide toe-box MTB clips & cordura straps.
<shrug> What can I say?

When did flat soled, street shoes come into the picture?

Quoted message said:

They work, and they work safely
for me. And the clips provide the additional advantage
of serving as armatures around which I wrap lengths of
cut-off inner tube (attached w/ small zipties) to keep my
feet dry in the rain, and warm in the cold wind, so I don't
need to buy special shoes which need special booties in
adverse weather.

But the clips provide poor foot retention unless the straps are cinched
tight.

Clips and straps are obsolete technology, and with good reason.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

It would take a total schlemiel or somebody with duck feet
to get his flat-soled, uncleated street shoes hung-up on
my plastic, wide toe-box MTB clips & cordura straps.
<shrug> What can I say?

When did flat soled, street shoes come into the picture?

When I put them into the picture, 'cuz that's what
I normally wear. I'll allow treaded soles on
shin-biter pedals equipped w/ clips might cause
probs. But I haven't experienced any foot extraction
problems, even with my work boots -- which, incidentally,
fit (more or less) into my clips-&-straps combination.
The only problem I have experienced in that regard is the
straps chafing away at the boots' uppers. That could be
the result of my abnormally high instep.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They work, and they work safely
for me. And the clips provide the additional advantage
of serving as armatures around which I wrap lengths of
cut-off inner tube (attached w/ small zipties) to keep my
feet dry in the rain, and warm in the cold wind, so I don't
need to buy special shoes which need special booties in
adverse weather.

But the clips provide poor foot retention unless the straps are cinched
tight.

Not mine. I just leave the straps set at a certain tautness.
I can slide my shoes into and out of them with ease, and they
still provide good enough retention to at least one-leggedly
pedal up a 3 or 4% grade. If I had the leg strength, maybe
I could one-leggedly pedal up even steeper grades with 'em.

Quoted message said:

Clips and straps are obsolete technology, and with good reason.

There are various kinds of clips/straps. My MTB setup is nothing
like those double-whammy track arrangements, or those old-skool,
roadies' narrow, pointy, metal clips w/ "little leather belts"
for straps. My plastic-y/rubbery clips & cordura straps have
a certain amount of stretchy "give". That give allows me to
easily slide into or out of them, but once my shoes are in 'em,
they clamp around my shoes more eagerly than the antibodies
which surrounded Raquel Welch in "Fantastic Journey." But
not quite as tightly, and I don't need Donald Pleasance to
pull 'em off (thank goodness.)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca