Latest ASO insanity

so what your saying is that tour groups cant lead people to stages of the TDF? its a public event with free entry, what next ASO going to try and sell tickets?

jcjordan said:

so what your saying is that tour groups cant lead people to stages of
the TDF?

No. He's saying they can't use phrases "Le Tour" and "Tour de France"
which, according to ASO, would unlawfully associate them with the
official organisation.

Like Davey would say: what a bunch o' wankez.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Le Tour. These are words that were in the public domain for over 50 years
and recently have been trademarked by ASO, the owner of Tour de France.

"Le Tour de France" has been registered as an EC trademark since 1996
(earliest possible) and probably a national French trademark from way
before (French trademark databases cost money, so screw them). Not
that this kind of use could reasonably be considered trademark
infringement, but this kind of bullying tactics do work quite often.
(Though I can't possibly see what ASO could be trying to accomplish
with this nonsense, except to generate more badwill.) Anyway, simply
referring to the race in descriptive terms without mentioning its name
is the easy way out.

quote='Ted van de Weteringe'jcjordan said:

so what your saying is that tour groups cant lead people to stages of
the TDF?

No. He's saying they can't use phrases "Le Tour" and "Tour de France"
which, according to ASO, would unlawfully associate them with the
official organisation.

Like Davey would say: what a bunch o' wankez.[/QUOTE]
must be more to this thread then whats on cyclingforums.com

jcjordan a écrit profondement:

| must be more to this thread then whats on cyclingforums.com

I think so, even beyond the usual Power Tripping Political Polkas that
Puppet [censored] like McBoggy get up to when Verbruggen, the Puppeteer
yanks his Chain.

--
Davey Crockett
-
Driving a Stake through the
Heart of the Politically Correct
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/sylviastolz/freesylvia.jpg
-
REST IN PEACE: Yankee Jim

jcjordan said:

must be more to this thread then whats on cyclingforums.com

How true. I, for one, am not on cyclingmorons.com.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet (Ctrl-F, "gateway"😉

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got this email from one of the many touring companies I correspond
with-

===========================
A sad update about the 2008 edition of the Tour de France - the drama
begins today, at least for tour operators and their guests.

To start with, please note that EuroCycler is not affiliated with the Tour
de France nor are we an official Tour operator for trips to the Tour de
France. EuroCycler is one of about 40 companies that are incorporated
mainly in the UK and USA and offer spectator trips to Le Tour in France.

EuroCycler is currently reviewing the legal situation since, together will
all other 40 companies, we were accused of using the name Tour de France
or Le Tour. These are words that were in the public domain for over 50
years and recently have been trademarked by ASO, the owner of Tour de
France. All tour operators such as EuroCycler are now asked to appear in
court in Paris, France, pay each several hundred thousand Euros in fines
and are not allowed to offer spectator trips to the Tour anymore.
===========================

It's not just ASO vs UCI or ASO vs ProTour. It's ASO vs *anybody* who
wants to have anything to do with cycling in France. This latest
anti-tour-group tactic is beyond absurd, but I think it points the way to
success for those of us who believe the ASO needs to be put in its place.
Letters and emails to the ASO aren't going to do any good, as they feel
they're on a much higher moral ground than the rest of us. But letters to
French businesses and perhaps politicians and tourism offices... that
might do some good. We don't need to threaten a boycott. We just need to
explain that we're not feeling the love, and wonder why France doesn't
want us to vacation there anymore.

I do *not* think there's any solidarity whatsoever between French business
interests and the ASO. The big hotel chains probably have no clue about
what's going on. If we let them know, who knows? Somebody may know
somebody and connect on a level that could be surprising.

One can always dream...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

You're like Bono. Music led him to injustices in Africa and cycling has led
you to the injustices of ASO.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Just got this email from one of the many touring companies I correspond
with-

===========================
A sad update about the 2008 edition of the Tour de France - the drama
begins today, at least for tour operators and their guests.
EuroCycler is currently reviewing the legal situation since, together will
all other 40 companies, we were accused of using the name Tour de France
or Le Tour. These are words that were in the public domain for over 50
years and recently have been trademarked by ASO, the owner of Tour de
France. All tour operators such as EuroCycler are now asked to appear in
court in Paris, France, pay each several hundred thousand Euros in fines
and are not allowed to offer spectator trips to the Tour anymore.

So have they trademarked Tour Day France too ?
Does this mean US corporate bullying tactics are now emigrating to
Sarkozy's France ?

"Ted van de Weteringe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jcjordan said:

so what your saying is that tour groups cant lead people to stages of
the TDF?

No. He's saying they can't use phrases "Le Tour" and "Tour de France"
which, according to ASO, would unlawfully associate them with the
official organisation.

Like Davey would say: what a bunch o' wankez.

Basically ASO are saying that tour companies are exploiting the ASO by using
Tour names, phrases, and activities to promote their own products without
giving the ASO a cut of the profits for providing the actual show. There
could also be an affiliated link of liability.

ASO's big problem will be enforcement, but if recent history is an
illustration expect them to come down hard on a few businesses to set an
example.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Just got this email from one of the many touring companies I correspond
with-

===========================
A sad update about the 2008 edition of the Tour de France - the drama begins
today, at least for tour operators and their guests.

To start with, please note that EuroCycler is not affiliated with the Tour
de France nor are we an official Tour operator for trips to the Tour de
France. EuroCycler is one of about 40 companies that are incorporated mainly
in the UK and USA and offer spectator trips to Le Tour in France.

EuroCycler is currently reviewing the legal situation since, together will
all other 40 companies, we were accused of using the name Tour de France or
Le Tour. These are words that were in the public domain for over 50 years
and recently have been trademarked by ASO, the owner of Tour de France. All
tour operators such as EuroCycler are now asked to appear in court in Paris,
France, pay each several hundred thousand Euros in fines and are not allowed
to offer spectator trips to the Tour anymore.
===========================

It's not just ASO vs UCI or ASO vs ProTour. It's ASO vs *anybody* who wants
to have anything to do with cycling in France. This latest anti-tour-group
tactic is beyond absurd, but I think it points the way to success for those
of us who believe the ASO needs to be put in its place. Letters and emails
to the ASO aren't going to do any good, as they feel they're on a much
higher moral ground than the rest of us. But letters to French businesses
and perhaps politicians and tourism offices... that might do some good. We
don't need to threaten a boycott. We just need to explain that we're not
feeling the love, and wonder why France doesn't want us to vacation there
anymore.

I do *not* think there's any solidarity whatsoever between French business
interests and the ASO. The big hotel chains probably have no clue about
what's going on. If we let them know, who knows? Somebody may know somebody
and connect on a level that could be surprising.

One can always dream...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I don't see how this can be considered unreasonable. The fines are
high, but nobody expects to get what they demand in a case like this.
ASO has assumed all of the effort and financial risk associated with
building the value of the Tour de France brand name. Another party
does not have the right to step in and appropriate that brand name for
it's own financial gain even if the name may have been public domain
in the past. This is why trademark laws exist in the first place.
The phrase "chain reaction", for example, has existed long before you
started using it as the name of your shop. You have since worked very
hard to build a reputation for the "Chain Reaction Bicycles" brand
name. Suppose a tour company in your area was to see that reputation
as a way to increase their own revenues, and called themselves
something like "Chain Reaction Bicycle Tours" without seeking
permission?

Ted van de Weteringe said:

jcjordan said:

so what your saying is that tour groups cant lead people to stages of
the TDF?

No. He's saying they can't use phrases "Le Tour" and "Tour de France"
which, according to ASO, would unlawfully associate them with the
official organisation.

I take that to mean you can be a french lawyer, do absolutely nothing
productive, and yet "earn" a great living. I think the Prezident of
LiveDrunk has a quote.

Quoted message said:

I don't see how this can be considered unreasonable. The fines are
high, but nobody expects to get what they demand in a case like this.
ASO has assumed all of the effort and financial risk associated with
building the value of the Tour de France brand name. Another party
does not have the right to step in and appropriate that brand name for
it's own financial gain even if the name may have been public domain
in the past.

I had to learn quite a bit about US trademark law a few years ago, when some
jerk in North Carolina decided he wanted our name for his website. He
claimed to have registered the name etc., and did what he could to make it
look legit (cease & desist letter and all that). Ah... no. We were able to
easily prove that we had used the name in interstate commerce DECADES before
that guy existed, recited chapter & verse the various regulations, yada yada
yada. Oh, and I threatened a lawsuit if he even so much as considered
anything other than total capitulation. And that was the end of it.

This is why trademark laws exist in the first place.

Quoted message said:

The phrase "chain reaction", for example, has existed long before you
started using it as the name of your shop. You have since worked very
hard to build a reputation for the "Chain Reaction Bicycles" brand
name. Suppose a tour company in your area was to see that reputation
as a way to increase their own revenues, and called themselves
something like "Chain Reaction Bicycle Tours" without seeking
permission?

Already explained some of that above. We have a trademark by default through
use, but did not bother to try and protect the name, due to the expense
involved. So providing somebody wasn't trying to be deceptive, implying they
were somehow tied in with us, the name could be used. What they would lose
out on is exclusivity of the name.

But getting back to the ASO and their tactics, it would be little different
from a hotel advertising a "SuperBowl Weekend" special, or the TV outlet
advertising "Big Screen Sale for the Super Bowl" etc. Both benefit from the
association, and in neither case would NFL Properties Inc come down on them.
You see, there's thing thing called reasonableness that, once in a while,
pops up. A reasonable organization would recognize that the use of their
name in all manner of products that PROMOTE THEIR ORGANIZATION, are good
business. It gets more exposure, more media attention, more excitement.

The ASO seems to have more in common with Communist Russia than a modern
free society. They desire control that boggles the mind. They want a piece
of everything. Which brings up a curious point. What sort of cut does France
itself get? It's *their* roads after all, *their* airspace the helicopters
fly through, *their* citizens and tourists who might be inconvenienced. The
ASO would seem to have a better deal than American railroads during the late
1800s!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Just got this email from one of the many touring companies I correspond
with-

===========================
A sad update about the 2008 edition of the Tour de France - the drama begins
today, at least for tour operators and their guests.

To start with, please note that EuroCycler is not affiliated with the Tour
de France nor are we an official Tour operator for trips to the Tour de
France. EuroCycler is one of about 40 companies that are incorporated mainly
in the UK and USA and offer spectator trips to Le Tour in France.

EuroCycler is currently reviewing the legal situation since, together will
all other 40 companies, we were accused of using the name Tour de France or
Le Tour. These are words that were in the public domain for over 50 years
and recently have been trademarked by ASO, the owner of Tour de France. All
tour operators such as EuroCycler are now asked to appear in court in Paris,
France, pay each several hundred thousand Euros in fines and are not allowed
to offer spectator trips to the Tour anymore.
===========================

It's the usual small army of stupid lawyers thinking that you'll [censored]
your pants if they send you a scary letter. As long as you don't use a
Tour logo, or use the same font of the official Tour logo, you're not
breaking a trademark. If a tour operator prints the word "Disneyland" in
a description of his services, do you think Disneyland has the right to
demand money of him? The Tour is even further disadvantaged since it
entirely takes place on public land so you're not even trespassing to
show people around it. Like this person said, Tour de France is a phrase
in the public domain.

I would ignore it and start planning the usual trip.

A R:nen said:

Anyway, simply
referring to the race in descriptive terms without mentioning its name
is the easy way out.

The Three Ring Doping Circus annual pilgrimage.

Kyle Legate said:

It's the usual small army of stupid lawyers thinking that you'll [censored]
your pants if they send you a scary letter. As long as you don't use a
Tour logo, or use the same font of the official Tour logo, you're not
breaking a trademark. If a tour operator prints the word "Disneyland" in
a description of his services, do you think Disneyland has the right to
demand money of him? The Tour is even further disadvantaged since it
entirely takes place on public land so you're not even trespassing to
show people around it. Like this person said, Tour de France is a phrase
in the public domain.

I would ignore it and start planning the usual trip.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Especially in this case where they are exposing people to the
product, the people will most likely buy merchandise, etc... it's
incredibly stupid, and guaranteed to generate negative feelings, and
press when they really need it.
People keep asking me why I don't work for a Harley-Davidson shop
anymore since I still ride, did the factory school, did all the rest
of the never ending training, worked well at a top 15 dealership,
etc...
Illness and injuries played a part then, but the corporate stupidity
and attitaude was just as much, if not more, and keeps me away. They
pulled this [censored] on a massive scale and usually went after small to
medium size folks they could bury in legal costs. They killed off the
folks who kept the company alive while they were building garbage, and
targeted the Beemer drivers who bought H-Ds as their latest status
symbol toys.
It's worked well so far. Not sure how that loyalty translates in a
crunch though. When they really need friends they might find them
riding Hondas instead.
Short term thinking. Instead of making friends for the brand,
generating good will, and loyalty they are cutting throats for the
nickel now.
Someone else will be smarter eventually. They might need those
friends when drivers are screaming at their pols about the road
closures and disruption caused by the races.
Bill C

Kyle Legate said:

The Tour is even further disadvantaged since it
entirely takes place on public land

Unless the law has been changed recently I don't think this is true.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Which brings up a curious point. What sort of cut does France
itself get? It's *their* roads after all, *their* airspace the helicopters
fly through, *their* citizens and tourists who might be inconvenienced. The
ASO would seem to have a better deal than American railroads during the late
1800s!

Perhaps. ISTR that France cedes ownership of the road to the Tour on
the day the race passes over it.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see how this can be considered unreasonable. The fines are
high, but nobody expects to get what they demand in a case like this.
ASO has assumed all of the effort and financial risk associated with
building the value of the Tour de France brand name. Another party
does not have the right to step in and appropriate that brand name for
it's own financial gain even if the name may have been public domain
in the past.

I had to learn quite a bit about US trademark law a few years ago, when some
jerk in North Carolina decided he wanted our name for his website. He
claimed to have registered the name etc., and did what he could to make it
look legit (cease & desist letter and all that). Ah... no. We were able to
easily prove that we had used the name in interstate commerce DECADES before
that guy existed, recited chapter & verse the various regulations, yada yada
yada. Oh, and I threatened a lawsuit if he even so much as considered
anything other than total capitulation. And that was the end of it.

This is why trademark laws exist in the first place.

Quoted message said:

The phrase "chain reaction", for example, has existed long before you
started using it as the name of your shop. You have since worked very
hard to build a reputation for the "Chain Reaction Bicycles" brand
name. Suppose a tour company in your area was to see that reputation
as a way to increase their own revenues, and called themselves
something like "Chain Reaction Bicycle Tours" without seeking
permission?

Already explained some of that above. We have a trademark by default through
use, but did not bother to try and protect the name, due to the expense
involved. So providing somebody wasn't trying to be deceptive, implying they
were somehow tied in with us, the name could be used. What they would lose
out on is exclusivity of the name.

But getting back to the ASO and their tactics, it would be little different
from a hotel advertising a "SuperBowl Weekend" special, or the TV outlet
advertising "Big Screen Sale for the Super Bowl" etc. Both benefit from the
association, and in neither case would NFL Properties Inc come down on them.
You see, there's thing thing called reasonableness that, once in a while,
pops up. A reasonable organization would recognize that the use of their
name in all manner of products that PROMOTE THEIR ORGANIZATION, are good
business. It gets more exposure, more media attention, more excitement.

The ASO seems to have more in common with Communist Russia than a modern
free society. They desire control that boggles the mind. They want a piece
of everything. Which brings up a curious point. What sort of cut does France
itself get? It's *their* roads after all, *their* airspace the helicopters
fly through, *their* citizens and tourists who might be inconvenienced. The
ASO would seem to have a better deal than American railroads during the late
1800s!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Except that the NFL has taken legal action against those promotions,
which is why almost all of them go out of their way to use phrases
like "Big Game" instead of "Super Bowl". ASO and the NFL still aren't
nearly as hardcore as the IOC. If they could prove that people were
thinking the word "Olympic" without their permission, they would
probably sue them.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Except that the NFL has taken legal action against those promotions,
which is why almost all of them go out of their way to use phrases
like "Big Game" instead of "Super Bowl". ASO and the NFL still aren't
nearly as hardcore as the IOC. If they could prove that people were
thinking the word "Olympic" without their permission, they would
probably sue them.

They (the Olympics organizers or the IOC, I'm not sure which did it) already have
done that. In '96, they sued a Greek restaurant in Atlanta that had been around with
the word "Olympic" in its name for many years.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?