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Re: Todays uphill race.

Started by caudy · · Last activity · 7 posts · 324 views

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
13 February 2008
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15 February 2008
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caudy
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  1. Hi dave

    I live in sheffiled and go to the flying teapots circus group as well.

    Next time you organise one of these uphill races I would like to take
    part. It sounds like good fun. Iv'e got a 20x2.5 wheel which is slow on
    the flat but up very steep hills it can be advantageous. There are some
    hills in sheffield that I can get up on my unicycle but not on a bike.

    --
    caudy

    watch my trials video! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JGXdNE2QB7o
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  2. I've done maybe 650 miles on my N36 since I got it in November '07.
    (Usually in spurts... 60 miles here, 40 miles there, 30 miles here, and
    they add up slowly because I don't ride enough :-P). I hope I can give
    you a bit of a comparison as to how hillclimbing on the 36 compares to
    climbing on the bike. (I have maybe 13,000 miles on my bikes since
    2006)

    Anyway, I've recently begun doing hillclimbing on my Coker, as I've
    been climbing with my road bike for a good couple years now; these are
    methoughts. There's a hill around where I school that is about a mile
    long and does a good 500-550 feet of gain, which makes for a ~10/11%
    grade... steep for a bike. I can get into a tough pace on my bike on
    that hill and hold 8-8.5, and I average 7.5 up it on my Nimbus 36". I'm
    very confident that I could beat many road riders (with racing bikes,
    yes) up that hill, assuming that they can sustain perhaps 85% or less
    of my max power on that hill. Obviously, if I raced myself on a bike,
    the bike-me would win, but there are plenty of people weaker and way
    more who are stronger. If you get in super good shape and find a hill
    that really, really bites (one where you're NOT able to sit and spin,
    because the bikes will win hands down), then you just might be able to
    compete, and, if you're a stronger rider than they are, win.

    I think it's about aerobic threshold and the assumption of a long (i.e.
    10-minute to an hour) hill that gets the cyclists in the same gear
    ratio as you. If your aerobic threshold pace on a bike is 15-20% faster
    than theirs is when you're both on bikes, you could probably hold pace
    with them on a unicycle maxed out going up that hill. If you're
    stronger than that, then you got 'em!

    For reference, my road bike gearing is 39 teeth front, 23 rear (in
    first gear, which is required on that hill) on a 700c wheel, which
    makes for a 45.7" equivalent wheel size in cadence-to-ground-distance
    ratio. However, my bike cranks are 175mm (vs. 125mm on my coker), so,
    if you cancel that out and normalize to 125mm, it's like a 45.7*125/175
    = *32.7-inch wheel with 125 cranks* when you look at it from the
    perspective of "how far your foot moves, in centimeters" versus "how
    far the bike moves, in centimeters".

    With my *36" wheel with 125 cranks*, I end up in a slightly higher
    "gear", but it's close enough that I can come very close to matching
    the speed that the same rider (me) would be capable of on my racing
    bike, and exceeding the sustainable speed of another slightly less fit
    rider. It would also allow someone more fit than me to leave me in the
    dust with me on my bike and him/her on my unicycle.

    Assume that riders are of equal fitness.

    1) In a sprint, a bike will ALWAYS beat a unicycle, due to the
    aforementioned instantaneous power advantage (bars)

    2) In long, un-sprintable hill climbs, a unicycle will never actually
    have the advantage, but can get "close." The 30-50% more power from
    clipless pedals on the bike, as with the pulling up on the bars to get
    sprintmadness, vanish when you the bottleneck in your ability to
    sustain power is your cardio rather than your sheer muscle. If you're
    at your aerobic threshold, you're not going to go any faster, if at
    all, if you can pull up with your arms and hamstrings; being able to
    distribute the load across different muscle groups will take the burn
    off and allow you to keep it up longer before fatigue, but as far as
    the instantaneous wattage goes, it won't help much. So, if you can get
    a longer hill, you can remove the sprinty advantages a bike offers.
    Longer, as in, probably a mile or longer, 3/4 at minimum. Once you're
    doing that, all you need to do is make sure that you've got a grade
    that is optimum for your wheel size... one where they'll have to shift
    into a gear such that their equivalent wheel size from their gear ratio
    (compensated with crank length) is the same as your wheel. Then you'll
    be able to at least hold your ground, but because bikes are more
    efficient, if you assume that they're in identical shape, they'll
    probably get you after a time.

    --
    chuckaeronut

    Cycling: It doesn't get easier; you just get faster.
    Unicycling: It doesn't get easier; you just do tougher stuff.
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  3. Sounds like an updated version of the Constant Footspeed Hypothesis.

    --
    GILD

    'three short gs and a long e-flat™'
    (http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/beethoven_sym5_1.wav) - 'unihoki'
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    'if i'm murdered, don't execute my killer.'
    (http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1539/)
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  4. chuckaeronut said:

    Obviously, if I raced myself on a bike, the bike-me would win

    That's the interesting measure. Keep the rider the same and you
    eliminate all that uncertainty about whether the other rider is more
    fit or less fit than you.

    Do a time trial against yourself on the unicycle and then on the bike.
    See whether bike-you or unicycle-you is faster. Use a HRM so you can
    monitor whether bike-you or unicycle-you is maintaining a higher heart
    rate. Repeat the time trial comparison on different hills that have a
    different grade. Plot it out on graph paper. See at what point the
    unicycle-you is able to match the bicycle-you up a hill.

    --
    john_childs

    john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
    Team Never Wash Your Muni
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  5. TTing against yourself is a good idea! 🙂

    I find that my optimum grade for unicycle hill speed is that 10-12%. If
    you're stronger, it'll be a higher optimum grade (more muscle, same
    gear), because stronger-you on the bike will take the same gear ratio
    on the steeper hill. (If I have X fitness and do 39/23 gearing up a
    hill, then become 1.1X fit, I'll probably do 39/21 or 39/19 up that
    hill with the same cadence, or find a steeper hill and go back to 39/23
    gearing.)

    Methinks that if you find a hill where your unicycle speed is the same
    as or very close to your bike speed, then race some people on your
    unicycle with them on bikes, you'll beat them if the hill is long and
    you've got a better aerobic threshold than them.

    @GILD, What's the Constant Footspeed Hypothesis? Sounds cool... 🙂

    --
    chuckaeronut

    Cycling: It doesn't get easier; you just get faster.
    Unicycling: It doesn't get easier; you just do tougher stuff.
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  6. Made a little graph of the ratio Cokerspeed/Bikespeed when pitted
    against hill grade. This is the one that pertains to me; my little
    theory is that, depending on your fitness, your grades are going to be
    either shorter or taller for the same speed ratios (i.e. your curve
    will shift left or right along the X axis).

    I do have the curve maxing out at a ratio of 1, which I believe isn't
    correct, but you get the picture, methinks. I also think that, as grade
    increases BEYOND the optimal grade, the bike will get the speed
    advantage once more, as a bike can balance independently of the power
    used to climb the hill.

    [image: http://clubs.uci.edu/bike/new/images/fun/univsbike.gif]

    --
    chuckaeronut

    Cycling: It doesn't get easier; you just get faster.
    Unicycling: It doesn't get easier; you just do tougher stuff.
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  7. chuckaeronut said:

    There's a hill around where I school that is about a mile long and does
    a good 500-550 feet of gain, which makes for a ~10/11% grade... steep
    for a bike.

    Let me guess, you're referring to Torrey Pines Road. 🙂

    By the way, very interesting post.

    Shannon

    --
    ShannonG
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