A Week to Go

Gonzalez scribed with passion and wit:

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
of China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

Stick your elbows out. And have a good time.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
of China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

heraldsun.news.com.au0,5478,8143038%255E663,00.htmlOpen ↗

Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?

SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.

As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
transport, the bicycle reigned in China.

But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
surge in car ownership.

Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.

Gonzalez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
of China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most courteous
people. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

N

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic of
China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

heraldsun.news.com.au0,5478,8143038%255E663,00Open ↗ .html

Quoted message said:

Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?

SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.

As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
transport, the bicycle reigned in China.

But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
surge in car ownership.

Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.

Ah, following the West's example (that's West vs. East, rather than Fred and his missus!!) Still, at
least the added pollution will hit fertility rates and the urge to have the latest mdg will over-
rule the need to procreate and hopefully their population-growth will slow down a little. A silver
lining to every big dirty cloud of noxious fumes ;-) Dave.

On 15 Dec 2003 06:02:33 -0800, [email hidden] (Nige)

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
of China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
courteous people. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

Shanghai and Hainan. My brother has lived in Shanghai for the last 12 years, his wife's parents live
in Hainan, so we're going there for 3 days after Christmas. Christmas isn't a big thing in China, so
it's probably the best time to escape from the mayhem in Christian countries.

I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting and
name calling which seems almost relentless.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:17:43 GMT, "elyob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
of China.

Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

heraldsun.news.com.au0,5478,8143038%255E663,00.htmlOpen ↗

Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?

SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.

As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
transport, the bicycle reigned in China.

In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There was a
donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.

A 6 lane ring road was completed around Shanghai about 6 years ago, and a new 8 lane outer ring road
has only recently been completed. There are also several elevated highways crisscrossing the city. I
suspect it is from these roads where the police plan to ban cycles.

autumnleaves.com.cnmap brief.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
surge in car ownership.

Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.

My brother is a property consultant and will be completely up to date on the current traffic
planning policy. I'll report back next year.

On a brighter note, I will be travelling from Pudong International Airport on the new 430 KPH
maglev. A long way round to the city centre, but is has to be done.

home.wangjianshuo.com20031105 pvg closer look at maglev.htmOpen ↗

Nige said:

Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
courteous people.

They'll bet on anything though!

Gonzalez said:

Shanghai and Hainan. My brother has lived in Shanghai for the last 12 years, his wife's parents
live in Hainan, so we're going there for 3 days after Christmas. Christmas isn't a big thing in
China, so it's probably the best time to escape from the mayhem in Christian countries.

I went to an event in mid July in Shanghai at which a brass band welcomed everyone with a medoly
of Carols.

Quoted message said:

I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting
and name calling which seems almost relentless.

Not my experience at all. I've always found them very helpful, friendly and enthusiastic although
negotiating in business with them is another story.

Tony

Gonzalez said:

In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There was
a donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.

When I first went to Beijing in 1982 there were people camped out and cooking meals right on the
edge of the runway as we landed.

Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old buildings have now gone but the
Bund looks the same although the view across the river has changed beyond recognition.

Tony

Gonzalez said:

I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting
and name calling which seems almost relentless.

So with the bike bans they'll fit in nicely on uk(?).tosspot.

John B

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:47:19 +0000, Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Nige said:

Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
courteous people.

They'll bet on anything though!

Rumours are that they placed bets on which of the twin towers would be the first to topple.

Tony Raven said:

Not my experience at all. I've always found them very helpful, friendly and enthusiastic although
negotiating in business with them is another story.

On my first visit to China I travelled from Shanghai to Kashgar (and back), via many of the great
cities along the Silk Road, including Xi'an and Turpan. Buying a train ticket in Xi'an was an
absolute nightmare, it seemed that there was no available ticket out of Xi'an to anywhere for the
next 500 years, and that they didn't sell tickets more than 500 years in advance. The only way I
managed to buy a ticket was by saying that if I couldn't buy a ticket I'd have to marry the ticket
officer as I'd need a wife as I was doomed to stay in Xi'an until the end of my life. This caused
such a stir in the rabble behind me (which was the chinese excuse for a queue) that the Station
Master had to fight his was through the melee to sort out the situation.

On my second trip I flew from Shanghai to Chengdu then drifted lazily down the Yangtzee, through
Chongqing and Wuhan (via the Three Gorges now a reservoir), back to Shanghai on a local passenger
ferry. I counted a grand total of 8 dead and bloated bodies floating down the river. Then I flew to
Bejing, and crashed a cycle rickshaw on my last night before flying home.

The country is lovely, but I'm afraid to say that I've found the people, in general, to be
uninterested and rude. It seems that racism is government policy. White people have to pay double or
more for most tourist attractions, this was also true for buying train tickets and aeroplane
tickets, but I understand this has since changed. In other words, it was the patriotic duty of every
Chinese citizen to screw as much money out of the foreign devils as possible. Indeed, it is only in
recent years that in the word for minority groups and foreigners, the character for dog has been
replaced with the character for person.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez said:

In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There
was a donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.

When I first went to Beijing in 1982 there were people camped out and

cooking

Quoted message said:

meals right on the edge of the runway as we landed.

Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old

buildings

Quoted message said:

have now gone but the Bund looks the same although the view across the

river

Quoted message said:

has changed beyond recognition.

Tony

I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...

Gonzalez said:

On my first visit to China I travelled from Shanghai to Kashgar (and back), via many of the great
cities along the Silk Road, including Xi'an and Turpan. Buying a train ticket in Xi'an was an
absolute nightmare, it seemed that there was no available ticket out of Xi'an to anywhere for the
next 500 years, and that they didn't sell tickets more than 500 years in advance. The only way I
managed to buy a ticket was by saying that if I couldn't buy a ticket I'd have to marry the ticket
officer as I'd need a wife as I was doomed to stay in Xi'an until the end of my life. This caused
such a stir in the rabble behind me (which was the chinese excuse for a queue) that the Station
Master had to fight his was through the melee to sort out the situation.

You are going to a country with different values and culture. Don't expect them to conform their
system to what you expect. The pleasure in travel is experiencing these differences and "going with
the flow". What does it matter that they don't form an orderly queue? That's just the way they do
things Watch how they do things, learn and try it yourself. It amazing how helpful and friendly
people can be when you try to understand and go with their culture but I can quite understand them
getting rude and upset if you try and force them to behave to you cultural standards. Why should
they? Its their country after all.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

You are going to a country with different values and culture. Don't expect them to conform their
system to what you expect. The pleasure in travel is experiencing these differences and "going with
the flow". What does it matter that they don't form an orderly queue? That's just the way they do
things Watch how they do things, learn and try it yourself. It amazing how helpful and friendly
people can be when you try to understand and go with their culture but I can quite understand them
getting rude and upset if you try and force them to behave to you cultural standards. Why should
they? Its their country after all.

Indeed.

I consider myself to be a well seasoned traveller, having travelled extensively in India, Russia,
North Africa and China.

In order of friendliness India comes top of the list by some way, North Africa a poor second,
followed by Russia then China.

Of course it's always nice when you get to know individual people and find people to be particularly
helpful. It's just that in China those helpful people are fewer and further apart and it takes
longer to gain their trust.

I certainly do not expect people to conform to my cultural standards, but it would be nice to be
treated with standard slightly above utter contempt by more than just a few Chinese.

elyob said:

I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...

SMT?

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...

SMT?

Shanghai Maglev Train

Wake up at the back there, Raven ;-)
___
Michael MacClancy

Michael MacClancy said:

Wake up at the back there, Raven ;-)

W...w...w....what? Who me sir?

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old buildings have now gone but the
Bund looks the same although the view across the river has changed beyond recognition.

My brother bought a newly built house in the Pudong Special Economic Zone 5 years ago. He sold it
last year for 5 times the price he paid.