rust control and frame Identification

news.virgin.net said the following on 04/02/2008 12:44:

Quoted message said:

Hi,
I have a frame supposed to be a claud butler that is still (amazingly)
my main bike. Looks like it'll have to keep going for a few more years so I
need to attend to some rust spots. Anybody recommend a product (preferably
somthing afordable from DIY rather than LBS).

To get rid of existing rust, use Jenolite (liquid, not gel). If you're
feeling flush, you could block up the vent holes and fill the frame
tubes with this, let it do it's stuff, then drain out. I've never done
that on a bike, mind! There are loads of proprietary rust preventers -
have a look in Halfords (car section, not bikes!) to find one you think
will work on a bike, but be aware that some need the rust removing
first. ISTR something called Brown Velvet that was quite good. Because
it was quite good though, it's probably been banned in favour of
something less effective :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

news.virgin.net said:

Hi,
I have a frame supposed to be a claud butler that is still
(amazingly) my main bike. Looks like it'll have to keep going for a
few more years so I need to attend to some rust spots. Anybody
recommend a product (preferably somthing afordable from DIY rather
than LBS). Also, I've had the frame for about 15years and the guy who
sold it to me said it was about 25years old, making it about 40yrs
old now - can anyone verify this :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brucejlee/BikePhotos/

Jeez, how tall are you? That frame looks massive! but sorry can't
identify it.

Looking at the bb I'd suggest it might be worth stripping the paint
back completely, there's a lot of rust bubbling under the paint which
might mean the bb shell is a gonner, in which case it might mean you
finally have to part company, or spend a bit of money and get a
competent bike builder to remove and replace the bb shell ... _not_ an
easy or diy type job.

--
Paul - [censored]

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch'
'98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed'
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough'

Bruce writtificated:

<http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brucejlee/BikePhotos/P1000630.JPG>

Mmmmm, chocolate bourbons....

Paul - censored said:

Looking at the bb I'd suggest it might be worth stripping the paint
back completely, there's a lot of rust bubbling under the paint which
might mean the bb shell is a gonner,

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Paul - [censored]

Paul - [censored] is spot on with this, the last photo is particularly
worrying.

Before going too far down the repair route, wire brush anything
loose from the bottom bracket area and jab away at it with a
pointy screwdriver. If no holes appear, then a more thorough
wire brushing, followed by a coat or two of bondaprimer topped
off with an appropriately coloured smoothrite top coat should
see you riding the frame for the foreseeable future.

You have thought about the rust on the inside of the frame as
well, havent you? Waxoyl from a spray can into any drain holes
would be my way of attacking it.

Ivan

"news.virgin.net" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

Also, I've had the frame for about 15years and the guy who
sold it to me said it was about 25years old, making it about
40yrs old now - can anyone verify this :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brucejlee/BikePhotos/

Your pictures don't give much to go on, but the style of the Prugnat lugs
and seat cluster would fit with a late sixties date, as would the
centre-pull brake and clamp-on cable guides, but those things didn't change
much through the seventies and even into the early eighties. I would've
thought a riveted head badge would be more likely on a 1960s bike.

You'll find some old ClaudButler catalogues here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm

The lugs on this 1968 Olympic Road look like yours, though the fork crown is
fancier:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/CBcats/Cat_68/P6_Olympic.jpg

but nothing much had changed in 1976:

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Claud_Butler-76/4.JPG

and my dad's Holdsworth Les West bought in the early eighties wasn't very
different.

James Thomson

Quoted message said:

"news.virgin.net" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

Also, I've had the frame for about 15years and the guy who
sold it to me said it was about 25years old, making it about
40yrs old now - can anyone verify this :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brucejlee/BikePhotos/

Your pictures don't give much to go on, but the style of the Prugnat lugs
and seat cluster would fit with a late sixties date, as would the
centre-pull brake and clamp-on cable guides, but those things didn't

change

Quoted message said:

much through the seventies and even into the early eighties. I would've
thought a riveted head badge would be more likely on a 1960s bike.

You'll find some old ClaudButler catalogues here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm

The lugs on this 1968 Olympic Road look like yours, though the fork crown

is

Quoted message said:

fancier:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/CBcats/Cat_68/P6_Olympic.jpg

but nothing much had changed in 1976:

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Claud_Butler-76/4.JPG

and my dad's Holdsworth Les West bought in the early eighties wasn't very
different.

James Thomson

They all look fairly similar to me. Are there any other photos I could take
to make identification easier ? Also, I'm pretty sure it's had a paint job :
I seem to remember there being a strange light metallic green paint on the
forks last time I took them out. Also, it has a big lamp holder in the
forks.

Bruce.

On 04/02/2008 18:50, bob said,

Quoted message said:

If it were mine I wouldn't hesitate to get the frame powder-coated. The
company will blast it back to metal and provide a single durable coating.

How about the insides of the tubes?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Quoted message said:

If it were mine I wouldn't hesitate to get the frame powder-coated. The
company will blast it back to metal and provide a single durable coating.

As the frame seems to have a simple, single colour paint-job you have
little to loose. Price-wise it should be 30-40 quid which might not be too
much more than buying all the strippers, brushes, rust-proofers and paint.

Check the yellow pages for powder-coating companies but better if you can
get a recommendation for one who knows about cycles.

I bookmarked this site a while back when I was thinking about buying an old
bike and getting it repainted.
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/resprays.php

Maybe a bit expensive though - I'm not sure

In article <[email hidden]>, news.virgin.net
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
I have a frame supposed to be a claud butler that is still (amazingly)
my main bike. Looks like it'll have to keep going for a few more years so I
need to attend to some rust spots. Anybody recommend a product (preferably
somthing afordable from DIY rather than LBS). Also, I've had the frame for
about 15years and the guy who sold it to me said it was about 25years old,
making it about 40yrs old now - can anyone verify this :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brucejlee/BikePhotos/

I'd say it's a Holdsworth-era CB i.e 1959-87, but that doesn't narrow it
down a lot. It looks like a 1980s frame - before that the head badge
would have been rivetted on and the bottom bracket wouldn't have been
drilled for a cable guide. Also I know that colour was offered on CB
frames in the 1980s, and I don't remember it any earlier. However it's
possible that the frame has been refinished and updated.
That's a bit more than "rust spots" you have to deal with, I'd be a bit
concerned about the structural integrity of the chainstays (the bottom
bracket, being cheap pressed steel, rusts more dramatically but there's
a lot more metal to play with).
The best solution really is to have it shotblasted and resprayed or
powder coated, but you could clean it up with a wire brush (preferably
attached to an angle grinder, or at least a power drill) and treat it
with a rust killer (Jenolite, Kurust etc. from a motor factor or DIY
shop), primer and a topcoat (brushed on is easier to get a good covering
and won't look too bad around the bottom bracket).

In article <[email hidden]>, news.virgin.net
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

They all look fairly similar to me. Are there any other photos I could take
to make identification easier ? Also, I'm pretty sure it's had a paint job :
I seem to remember there being a strange light metallic green paint on the
forks last time I took them out.

It's not that unusual for frames to be sprayed a different colour before
they leave the factory - if a new model uses the same frame in a
different colour they'll use up existing stock.

Quoted message said:

Also, it has a big lamp holder in the forks.

They were still fitting those in the early 1980s. What other braze-ons
are there?

"news.virgin.net" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

They all look fairly similar to me.

That's the point. Not much changed during the period of interest. Also, a
lot of manufacturers were producing similar bikes with the same tubes and
lugs. If the frame's been refinished there's not much chance of identifying
the date, or even the maker with any certainty. On the other hand, the date
you suggest is plausible.

Quoted message said:

Are there any other photos I could take to make
identification easier?

Details of the dropouts, any braze-ons, the fork crown, and the stays and
fork blades might give some clues.

Sometimes components have date codes. If you think the brakes or headset
might be original, you might find clues there. Weinmann brakes often have a
date stamp.

Another possibility is the Veteran Cycle Club. They'll have a Claud Butler
marque specialist who might be able to give you some pointers. Is that the
remains of a serial number on the bottom bracket shell?

James Thomson