Worst Tour Ever?

Moller said:

Just watched the DVd of the 2002 Tour and I have to say it's the worst Tour I can remember (following it from '86).
The total lack of any opposition to Armstrong (while not his fault) is the main problem and the sterility of the racing.
The sight of Hincapie dropping climbers on the Tourmalet is also fairly gut-churning.
Second might be 1988, what do you think?.

[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana]Funny you mention this... I pulled out the 2004 Tour and 2005 Tour's the other day to watch whilst on the turbo trainer.... I had to turn them off... you can't watch them knowing all that went on Ullrich, Basso included..... and yes they are boring.... and yes again watching “the blue train” as they were known ride the entire Tour on the front of the peleton was just ridiculous….[/font] [/font]

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana]Funny you mention this... I pulled out the 2004 Tour and 2005 Tour's the other day to watch whilst on the turbo trainer.... I had to turn them off... you can't watch them knowing all that went on Ullrich, Basso included..... and yes they are boring.... and yes again watching “the blue train” as they were known ride the entire Tour on the front of the peleton was just ridiculous….[/font] [/font]

and people think a clean tour would be boring because of the speeds.

Please.

The dope just neutralises any entertainment.

thunder said:

and people think a clean tour would be boring because of the speeds.

Please.

It was only a few people like Saluki who were putting forth that argument. I like tours that are closely contested like last years (although we could have done without the drama of Chicken being pulled and all that).

Moller said:

Just watched the DVd of the 2002 Tour and I have to say it's the worst Tour I can remember (following it from '86).
The total lack of any opposition to Armstrong (while not his fault) is the main problem and the sterility of the racing.
The sight of Hincapie dropping climbers on the Tourmalet is also fairly gut-churning.
Second might be 1988, what do you think?.

I am halfway through "Hell on Wheels" about '03 and so far, it is pretty good because they leave out the "Blue Train" in the first half. It does make me sick to know that they weren't able to film the doping that was going on in the hours of footage they shot.

I sincerely hope we have a great season this year. We need a year where we can watch the races for the competition.

thunder said:

and people think a clean tour would be boring because of the speeds.

Please.

The dope just neutralises any entertainment.

Nothing better than bonk! Landis' bonk was great even if it was a PED mistake, his recovering was desastrous just after our brains becoming in order.

Hard one to call : I presume that you're referring to the TDF.

For me the TDF in recent years has been the poor relative of the Giro and Vuelta : those recent Giri and Vuelta have been great.

The worst TDF?
From an entertainment viewpoint, i thought 2004 was poor :

thoughtforfood said:

I am halfway through "Hell on Wheels" about '03 and so far, it is pretty good because they leave out the "Blue Train" in the first half. It does make me sick to know that they weren't able to film the doping that was going on in the hours of footage they shot.

You haven't gotten to the part where Klodi crashes yet then. Because they show him getting shot up with some stuff at least once if not a couple of times. Not sure what kind of legal drugs they could have been giving him, I assume they were legal or it wouldn't have made it into the movie. Interesting that it didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary for him to be getting an injection. Also I'm pretty sure when the show the scenes about the dope controls after the stages, they contact the team Doc first.

poulidor said:

Nothing better than bonk! Landis' bonk was great even if it was a PED mistake, his recovering was desastrous just after our brains becoming in order.

The thing about the Bonk was, can you imagine how clean people would have thought him to be had he not come back the next day and KO'ed the field?

I mean, if he just gracefully took his defeat and then came back the next year to win, he'd be considered as clean as Simoni.

It's all perception, isn't it?

helmutRoole2 said:

The thing about the Bonk was, can you imagine how clean people would have thought him to be had he not come back the next day and KO'ed the field?

I mean, if he just gracefully took his defeat and then came back the next year to win, he'd be considered as clean as Simoni.

It's all perception, isn't it?

The question is if he had gracefully accepted defeat, would he still have somehow triggered a positive test later. But yes, I agree that it would have been easier to give an illusion of being clean. People said the same thing for Vino when he bonked the first stage in the Pyrenees after the time trial, but he got booted anyway (although in his case, he won the next stage in the Pyrenees which can in some way be seen as a parallel to Landis' performance).

Wayne666 said:

You haven't gotten to the part where Klodi crashes yet then. Because they show him getting shot up with some stuff at least once if not a couple of times. Not sure what kind of legal drugs they could have been giving him, I assume they were legal or it wouldn't have made it into the movie. Interesting that it didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary for him to be getting an injection. Also I'm pretty sure when the show the scenes about the dope controls after the stages, they contact the team Doc first.

Yea, got to that part, but assumed the same as you, that they were legal. However, your observation that it seemed routine is very true now that you mention it.

thoughtforfood said:

Yea, got to that part, but assumed the same as you, that they were legal. However, your observation that it seemed routine is very true now that you mention it.

The tour this year might be great without Astana. A good chance for evans to win, and dispite what people think I think he is clean and deserves it.

Scotttri said:

The tour this year might be great without Astana. A good chance for evans to win, and dispite what people think I think he is clean and deserves it.

47 out of 189 riders at the Tour with manipulated blood. 80% on growth hormone. Rode with Mapei, Saeco, and T-Mobile. Had links to Ferrari. His manager is Rominger who made sure Saiz went back to Fuentes.

If you add it up, there is no reason to think he would be part of the 20% not taking growth hormone (assuming none of those take the blood, and are part of the clean quotient).

Just why would you think he is clean.

He said "the UCI is doing a good job, they are catching the cheaters".

Now, if I put myself third on GC, and I answered a question like that, knowing Rasmussen was doing god knows what experimental drugs, and Discovery were getting blood deliveries, you think I would answer so diplomatically?

Evans has never been one to be the diplomat and hold his tongue. He has always had the character of being a whiner, and shooting from the hip.

Now, if he was clean, go [censored] me.

thunder said:

47 out of 189 riders at the Tour with manipulated blood. 80% on growth hormone. Rode with Mapei, Saeco, and T-Mobile. Had links to Ferrari. His manager is Rominger who made sure Saiz went back to Fuentes.

If you add it up, there is no reason to think he would be part of the 20% not taking growth hormone (assuming none of those take the blood, and are part of the clean quotient).

Just why would you think he is clean.

He said "the UCI is doing a good job, they are catching the cheaters".

Now, if I put myself third on GC, and I answered a question like that, knowing Rasmussen was doing god knows what experimental drugs, and Discovery were getting blood deliveries, you think I would answer so diplomatically?

Evans has never been one to be the diplomat and hold his tongue. He has always had the character of being a whiner, and shooting from the hip.

Now, if he was clean, go [censored] me.

Thunder... you are changing religion here... you've convinced me. Good points.

Crankyfeet said:

Thunder... you are changing religion here... you've convinced me. Good points.

like Heroes says tho, of some riders

"not the big program".

Whether just testo gel or hgh. I dont know if he got blood. Remember at 2005 Giro that il Falco won, when Ardilla and Van Huffel climbed out of their skins, and Ardilla has never ridden aything like that. Lotto helped Savoldelli win on the last climbing stage by supporting him and leading him up the second last col I think.

Anyway, that Giro, the carabinieri quarintined a couple of altitude tents, but the team doctors had a hundred or something ridiculous, syringes in their kit bag.

They might have been one of the teams talked about here "Tour like a Mobile Pharmacy" bikeradar.comtour like a mobile pharmacy 10544Open ↗

Hmmm, perhaps Colin Powell got the wrong mobile pharmacy from Chemical Ali. He should have spoken to Armstrong and Ferrari.

thunder said:

Now, if he was clean, go [censored] me.

Now that is one scary thought!!! Of course all of your points are but speculation and there is not one ounce of proof you can throw towards the fact that he dopes!!!! I'm not saying that there's proof contador doped either only that he was stupid enough to join a team with a history of dopeing.

thunder said:

They might have been one of the teams talked about here "Tour like a Mobile Pharmacy" bikeradar.comtour like a mobile pharmacy 10544Open ↗

Gotta love this one - amnesia medication so that riders would not forget the stage route 😄 :

<<Another 2004 Tour entrant, perhaps the claimant of the 155 benchmark, has a supply of pentoxifylline tablets. These are more commonly prescribed for amnesia in the elderly. "I look after sportsmen of under 30 years of age who don't need reassurances about the state of their memory, not even to remember what the stage route is like," commented a sceptical fdjeux.com doctor, Grard Guillaume.>>

Scotttri said:

Now that is one scary thought!!! Of course all of your points are but speculation and there is not one ounce of proof you can throw towards the fact that he dopes!!!! I'm not saying that there's proof contador doped either only that he was stupid enough to join a team with a history of dopeing.

no, but there were facts that the speculation was based on.

thunder said:

speculation

Thats all it is, no proof, see thats the trouble with sport these days, rumours and speculation f#*k it for everyone. If someone is guilty fine ban them for life, if not let it be.

Scotttri said:

Thats all it is, no proof, see thats the trouble with sport these days, rumours and speculation f#*k it for everyone. If someone is guilty fine ban them for life, if not let it be.

The trouble is only because a lot of people refused to see the obvious and the people who knew and in charge of the sport never acted ... If UCI had not pushed positive cases under the rug, covered the PEDs use and eventually promoted its use*, we would not be in the current state.

Verddrugen saying : people are not ready to see slower races!