Schwalbe Marathon Plus - ouch

dgk said:

Having seen a number of recommendations for these tires for commuting,
I just got two. I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a
rim. Normally, I just get the beads of the tire into the center of the
rim while I push the last of the bead over the edge, but this tire
makes that much tougher. It's 700C * 32. I think that 32 makes it
tougher than a narrower tire would be.

The tire has a very thick tread, so getting it to stay in the center
of the rim is much tougher than with other tires. I finally had a
friend hold the tire in the center while I got the rest of it over the
edge. My thumbs are a bit bloody from having the nail separate a bit
from the skin.

I even resorted to soapy water, and I never needed do that. Still, the
tire is now mounted and seems very good. I have it at around 80 lbs.

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

The good news is, they don't have to come off that often. I don't
think I've had a front flat in 2 years (more than 10,000 km.) I've had
3 or 4 on the rear, and the tire came off easily, despite being hard
to mount the first time.

Two of the flats were on the same day (but in different countries)
while touring. The other I can remember was urban commuting related.
No glass involved in any of them - despite my daily urban commute.
Tough tires.

Brian Huntley said:

Quoted message said:

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

The good news is, they don't have to come off that often.

That's certainly true, but part of the problem is the rim. Problems
getting tyres on are often a combination of tyre *and* rim.

I had Marathon Plus tyres on one of my bikes for a while, and with
those rims (Rigida), I could easily get them on by hand, whereas, for
example, I had the devil's own job getting Vittoria 700x23c tyres onto
the Campagnolo wheels of my road bike.

Being fed up with having sore hands for a week after every puncture
repair, I finally invested in two tools:

A Var tyre-lever for on the road:

<http://www.vartools.com/fr/fiche_produit.php?id=511&shop=&pro=>

and a Koolstop bead jack for the workshop:

<http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/index.php#Anchor-without-3800>

Both of them work by pulling up on the tyre bead from an anchor point
on the other side of the rim, so there is no risk of pinching the
tube, which could happen if you try to use traditional levers to force
a recalcitrant tyre back on.

Maybe when they named them 'Marathon' they were referring to getting
them on the rim.

My wife wanted some fatter mountain tires on her Bianchi hybrid, and
the combination of WTB - Pathway tires and Araya rims was a major
nightmare. My son learned many new words while I struggled with those
tires, and I began talking like the
comics....'must....get...tire...on...rim'. Later found that my wife
is a magnet for goatheads, so after every ride I knew I was in for
more blood-letting. Full-finger leather gloves became required after
about the 3rd time, not being young anymore I didn't think I could
afford to lose so much blood.

The only thing that made an improvement was leaving the rim and tire
out in the sun for 30-45 minutes, then it was soft enough to wrestle
into submission. But I finally decided to buy Kevlar tires for her
instead and even put in some liners. Transferred the WTB's over to my
Specialized Crossroads and those tires practically jumped onto the
Specialized rims without human intervention.

ABS

dgk said:

Having seen a number of recommendations for these tires for commuting,
I just got two. I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a
rim. Normally, I just get the beads of the tire into the center of the
rim while I push the last of the bead over the edge, but this tire
makes that much tougher. It's 700C * 32. I think that 32 makes it
tougher than a narrower tire would be.

The tire has a very thick tread, so getting it to stay in the center
of the rim is much tougher than with other tires. I finally had a
friend hold the tire in the center while I got the rest of it over the
edge. My thumbs are a bit bloody from having the nail separate a bit
from the skin.

I even resorted to soapy water, and I never needed do that. Still, the
tire is now mounted and seems very good. I have it at around 80 lbs.

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

I got a two Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires before my long trip last
summer (700 x 35) and now have about 8000 miles on them. I've had
just two flat tires, and had no problem getting them back on the rim
either time; the initial installation was by my LBS. They are an
excellent tire for avoiding flats, though the Bontrager tires with
Kevlar linings inside are also very good for that purpose.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:58:02 +0100, Andrew Price <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Brian Huntley said:

Quoted message said:

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

The good news is, they don't have to come off that often.

That's certainly true, but part of the problem is the rim. Problems
getting tyres on are often a combination of tyre *and* rim.

I had Marathon Plus tyres on one of my bikes for a while, and with
those rims (Rigida), I could easily get them on by hand, whereas, for
example, I had the devil's own job getting Vittoria 700x23c tyres onto
the Campagnolo wheels of my road bike.

Being fed up with having sore hands for a week after every puncture
repair, I finally invested in two tools:

A Var tyre-lever for on the road:

<http://www.vartools.com/fr/fiche_produit.php?id=511&shop=&pro=>

That's funny. If you click on the Zoom or image, you get a blow up of
a normal tire lever. Also, apparently the Var tyre lever has gone out
of production.

Quoted message said:

and a Koolstop bead jack for the workshop:

<http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/index.php#Anchor-without-3800>

This I might get. Too late to help my aching thumbs this week though.

dgk said:

Quoted message said:

<http://www.vartools.com/fr/fiche_produit.php?id=511&shop=&pro=>

That's funny. If you click on the Zoom or image, you get a blow up of
a normal tire lever.

Well spotted - another web site maintained by a nerd !

Quoted message said:

Also, apparently the Var tyre lever has gone out
of production.

I don't think so (I bought a second one not so long ago) but in
keeping with their web site standards, Var are appallingly bad
communicators. They make most of their money from sales of
specialised equipment for workshops, and aren't really all that
interested in selling direct to the general public.

Shame, because that lever is really practical for on-road use. The
only way to get hold of one is to find a dealer who sells their stuff,
and if he doesn't have it in stock, ask him to order it from Var.

Andrew Price said:

<http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/index.php#Anchor-without-3800>

In case you missed it, they also sell a valve adapter that "Converts
Presta or aluminum"!!! Wow, chrysopoeia! I need one of those! I've
been wondering how to convert Aluminum!

Rex Kerr said:

Andrew Price said:

<http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/index.php#Anchor-without-3800>

In case you missed it, they also sell a valve adapter that "Converts
Presta or aluminum"!!!  Wow, chrysopoeia! I need one of those!  I've
been wondering how to convert Aluminum!

I like the fact their "Bee" bell is "imported directly from China"
unlike so many other bells.

(I really want one of those, but with a descent mounting clamp.)

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Having seen a number of recommendations for these tires for commuting,
I just got two. I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a
rim. Normally, I just get the beads of the tire into the center of the
rim while I push the last of the bead over the edge, but this tire
makes that much tougher. It's 700C * 32. I think that 32 makes it
tougher than a narrower tire would be.

The tire has a very thick tread, so getting it to stay in the center
of the rim is much tougher than with other tires. I finally had a
friend hold the tire in the center while I got the rest of it over the
edge. My thumbs are a bit bloody from having the nail separate a bit
from the skin.

I even resorted to soapy water, and I never needed do that. Still, the
tire is now mounted and seems very good. I have it at around 80 lbs.

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

For all weather daily commuting, I am using SM+ on my rear wheel, 20". I
agree, it was somewhat more difficult to mount, compared with the tire I was
replacing at the time. My Sun Rhyno Lite XL rims are known to be a challenge
for tire mounting. (I am not sure exactly which dimension of the rim
controls this.) I have been using this tire for at least a couple thousand
miles, no problems at all. There are not even any significant cuts in the
tread. So hopefully your tire is there to stay for a long while.

I am sure you checked the Schwalbe website before purchase
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943 . The SM+ is significantly different
from other tires, even compared with the Schwalbe Marathon (not Plus). I
have used SM before the SM+, and in my experience, the SM+ is much more cut
and flat resistant. But easier to mount.

J.

"Jay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Having seen a number of recommendations for these tires for commuting,
I just got two. I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a
rim. Normally, I just get the beads of the tire into the center of the
rim while I push the last of the bead over the edge, but this tire
makes that much tougher. It's 700C * 32. I think that 32 makes it
tougher than a narrower tire would be.

The tire has a very thick tread, so getting it to stay in the center
of the rim is much tougher than with other tires. I finally had a
friend hold the tire in the center while I got the rest of it over the
edge. My thumbs are a bit bloody from having the nail separate a bit
from the skin.

I even resorted to soapy water, and I never needed do that. Still, the
tire is now mounted and seems very good. I have it at around 80 lbs.

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough the
first time you mount it. I hope that's true because the idea of
changing this sucker while outside in the cold is not something that
I'm looking forward to doing.

For all weather daily commuting, I am using SM+ on my rear wheel, 20". I
agree, it was somewhat more difficult to mount, compared with the tire I
was replacing at the time. My Sun Rhyno Lite XL rims are known to be a
challenge for tire mounting. (I am not sure exactly which dimension of the
rim controls this.) I have been using this tire for at least a couple
thousand miles, no problems at all. There are not even any significant
cuts in the tread. So hopefully your tire is there to stay for a long
while.

I am sure you checked the Schwalbe website before purchase
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943 . The SM+ is significantly different
from other tires, even compared with the Schwalbe Marathon (not Plus). I
have used SM before the SM+, and in my experience, the SM+ is much more
cut and flat resistant. But easier to mount.

J.

Usenet Editor's note:

Jay has screwed up again. He meant to say, the SM is easier to mount,
compared with the SM+.

Jay is under Usenet newsgroup double-secret probation. Any more problems
like this, and he gets booted out of here.

Usenet Administration apologizes for Jay's careless error!

dgk said:

I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a rim.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=2058&item=00-5203&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

I have one of these, and it's great!

Quoted message said:

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough
the first time you mount it.

=v= I would say the first two times. Third time's the charm.
Mind you, I've got the 451 size, on Alex Rims, which are a tad
too large in the way that Schwalbes are a tad too small. :-\
<_Jym_>

Jym Dyer said:

Quoted message said:

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough
the first time you mount it.

=v= I would say the first two times. Third time's the charm.
Mind you, I've got the 451 size, on Alex Rims, which are a tad
too large in the way that Schwalbes are a tad too small. :-\
<_Jym_>

guys you all should have a set of tire levers. i have a bunch and i am
giving them away for free. who ever is inteersted just have to pay
shipping $3. if you are interested send me and email
[email hidden]
FREE TIRE LEVERS
carlos
http://www.bikingthings.com

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:49:11 -0800, Rex Kerr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=2058&item=00-5203&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

I have one of these, and it's great!

I do too, and it is indeed great, because it replaces multiple tyre
levers, and it's fast. But I wouldn't trust it not to break with a
mean tyre/rim combination. There, you really need something like the
Koolstop bead jack or the Var lever.

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:42:02 -0800 (PST), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Jym Dyer said:

Quoted message said:

I recall reading somewhere (likely here!) that it's only tough
the first time you mount it.

=v= I would say the first two times. Third time's the charm.
Mind you, I've got the 451 size, on Alex Rims, which are a tad
too large in the way that Schwalbes are a tad too small. :-\
<_Jym_>

guys you all should have a set of tire levers. i have a bunch and i am
giving them away for free. who ever is inteersted just have to pay
shipping $3. if you are interested send me and email
[email hidden]
FREE TIRE LEVERS
carlos
http://www.bikingthings.com

I have plain old tire levers but would never use them to try to mount
a tire. I thought that those were only for removing a tire.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:49:11 -0800, Rex Kerr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

dgk said:

I have never had as much trouble getting a tire onto a rim.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=2058&item=00-5203&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

I have one of these, and it's great!

Just for home use or for taking on the road. I'm not really concerned
much about weight but that thing is 31 grams - two pounds!

dgk said:

I have plain old tire levers but would never use them to try to mount
a tire. I thought that those were only for removing a tire.

I've used them for putting on tires as well.

One has to be careful though. I've broken the tips off
of two of them trying to mount a tight tire on a rim.

They're just plastic.

SMH

Brian Huntley said:

The good news is, they don't have to come off that often. I don't
think I've had a front flat in 2 years (more than 10,000 km.) I've had
3 or 4 on the rear, and the tire came off easily, despite being hard
to mount the first time.

Natually, I got a flat after writing this (on the 30th.) It was
bitterly cold and extremely windy, so I pumped/rode/repeat until I got
home. Tire was fairly easy to get off and on again. And I counted the
patches - 3 - and I disposed of the first two tubes (large holes/wrong
valve) so this is the 6th.

Odd thing - it wasn't the tire's fault this time. Something was poking
up through the rim tape, between two spoke holes.

dgk said:

Just for home use or for taking on the road. I'm not really concerned
much about weight but that thing is 31 grams - two pounds!

I didn't notice that they had that under the specs. I don't pay much
attention to weight, but I'm just about certain that they're wrong. I
carry it and it doesn't feel much heavier (if any) than a set of three
plastic tire levers. It's just plastic.

Er... guess I was wrong... just found it on crankbrothers.com, and they
also claim 31g. I have a hard time believing that.

BTW... here's a better explanation of how it works... the picture
doesn't begin to do it justice:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001005.php