What's what in Campa

In article <[email hidden]>,

dabac said:

Hi guys,

Since a quick google didn't provide me with a "Campa for dummies" site
I'm hoping for some help from you guys.

I'm looking to pick up some Campa 9-spd brifters for a frankenbike I'm
planning to put together and I wonder if someone could explain (or point
me to a helpful site) the differences between Ergopower Centaur, Veloce,
and Daytona.

Veloce seems to be the cheapest one, and Daytona doesn't appear to be
available any more.

Daytona is the old name for what is now Centaur. It was changed for
legal reasons. Just as with MTB stuff, there's a group hierarchy in
Campy. From lowest to highest:

Xenon, Mirage, Veloce, Centaur, Chorus, Record.

Veloce is, broadly, like Deore: the lowest group you let your friends
ride 🙂.

The differences are generally weight, materials, and some design or
manufacturing details. For example, some of the top-level groups get
nicer bearings in various places, etc.

I would have no qualms about Veloce, but Centaur/Daytona would be a tiny
bit nicer, and a tiny bit lighter, and a fair bit more expensive.

Quoted message said:

Is the front shifter still more of a ratchet operation than indexed for
all of the above?
Is 9-spd likely to remain serviceable for the foreseeable future?

For 9-speed, yes. All Campy-9 uses a not-really-indexed front shifter.
It's really good, because it gives you easy, accurate trimming on the
front derailleur.

Quoted message said:

Any particular traps/hurdles/tricks i should know about as I try to
transition from tinkering with MTB stuff to road stuff?

In Campy-9, there are two pull ratios, so mixing old-9 and new-9 is
usually a bad idea, but there's a neat trick you can pull:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

If you look at those charts, an old-9 derailleur and a new-9 shifter mix
and match to perfectly shift (okay, 0.01 mm off per cog) a Shimano 9
cassette.

That's really useful, as it lets you use cheap and plentiful Shimano-9
cassettes and rear wheels.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Ryan Cousineau said:

Daytona is the old name for what is now Centaur.

Gotcha.

Ryan Cousineau said:

Veloce is, broadly, like Deore: the lowest group you let your friends
ride 🙂.

Now there's a perfect comparison for me to relate to!

Ryan Cousineau said:

...All Campy-9 uses a not-really-indexed front shifter.
It's really good, because it gives you easy, accurate trimming on the
front derailleur.

Sort of matches my current MTB-setup, where I'm using a low-end non-indexing Gripshift for the FD.
If I'd only been able to figure out how to change the cable in that one I'd be perfectly happy. As, now, I'm "only" happy with how it handles...
Good news for the Frankenbike plans as well.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In Campy-9, there are two pull ratios, so mixing old-9 and new-9 is
usually a bad idea, but there's a neat trick you can pull:... an old-9 derailleur and a new-9 shifter .. match .. perfectly .. a Shimano 9
cassette.

Tempting, but methinks getting a shift mate would be easier than sourcing an old(but not worn out) Campa 9 RD...
If I were to come across such a beast, how do I recognize it?

Or would you rather recommend that I coughed up the extra dough (another 40 USD) for a Campa 10?(which would give me easy access to Shimano 8?)

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dabac <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the front shifter still more of a ratchet operation than indexed for
all of the above?
Is 9-spd likely to remain serviceable for the foreseeable future?

For 9-speed, yes. All Campy-9 uses a not-really-indexed front shifter.

Except Xenon. Xenon has hard indexing, like all the new "Escape
Mechanism" ergos.

"Escape Mechanism" ergos suck. I had a set of 2007 Veloces, and they
had ZERO tactile feedback. I'd throw the lever far enough to move the
chain, but not enough to catch the ratchet, and it would shift, then
shift back. I'd adjust the cable, and I'd shift two gears instead of
one.

Maybe they'd be better for someone used to the feel of STIs, but I
need my loud, firm clicks. I swapped them out for a set of 2006
Centaurs that Nashbar had on closeout. Much, much better.

dabac said:

Since a quick google didn't provide me with a "Campa for dummies" site
I'm hoping for some help from you guys.

I'm looking to pick up some Campa 9-spd brifters for a frankenbike I'm
planning to put together and I wonder if someone could explain (or point
me to a helpful site) the differences between Ergopower Centaur, Veloce,
and Daytona.

Veloce seems to be the cheapest one, and Daytona doesn't appear to be
available any more.

Is the front shifter still more of a ratchet operation than indexed for
all of the above?
Is 9-spd likely to remain serviceable for the foreseeable future?

Any particular traps/hurdles/tricks i should know about as I try to
transition from tinkering with MTB stuff to road stuff?

Many options. Consider getting 10sp and shifting 9sp Shiman hubs. You
must already have some of those. All the Ergopower shifers you
mention will work equally well.

I even think that yesterday's Daytona/Centaur is equal to the Veloce.
All have metal shifters and brake levers. 9sp conversion disks are
readilly available (I have several and they are $10 items/used) and
you can convert your 10sp to shifter to 9sp and keep or sell the 10sp
disk. If it's a frankenbike, you can also buy older, pointy hood
Campy ergo and either get it in 9sp or buy a 9sp shift disk ( I have
one of those too).

I also have a complete R Veloce Ergo 9 lever you could buy $42.
You'll see Lefts on eBay sometimes.

Hank said:

Except Xenon. Xenon has hard indexing, like all the new "Escape
Mechanism" ergos.

"Escape Mechanism" ergos suck. .

Ok, thanks, but which are those? All post-06 ones? Any pointers on how to determine year?

I've found some stuff om offer that's apparently been sitting on someones shelf for a while, but I don't know HOW long, and if it's a critical issue I'd rather not rely solely on the seller's word.

On Jan 23, 10:00 am, dabac <dabac.33n...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Hank said:

Except Xenon. Xenon has hard indexing, like all the new "Escape
Mechanism" ergos.

Quoted message said:

"Escape Mechanism" ergos suck. .

Ok, thanks, but which are those? All post-06 ones? Any pointers on how
to determine year?

I've found some stuff om offer that's apparently been sitting on
someones shelf for a while, but I don't know HOW long, and if it's a
critical issue I'd rather not rely solely on the seller's word.

--
dabac

If it's got the rounded body and not the pointy body, and 9-speed,
you're good (pointy body is for old pull-ratio RDs). If it's 10-speed,
avoid the ones that say "QS" on the left (front) lever, unless they're
Chorus or Record, which still use the old mechanism.

Paul Kopit said:

Many options. Consider getting 10sp and shifting 9sp Shimano hubs.

You mean doing the hubbub mod on a Sh RD to run Sh 9 sp cassette from a Campa 10 sp brifter?
Have/am considering that, as I've found a 10 sp for sale as well. It's $40 more expensive though. But $40 would also buy me a Shift Mate, which would also sort it out. I'd really prefer to use Sh for the rest of the bits in the driveline.

Paul Kopit said:

...9sp Shimano hubs. .You
must already have some of those.

Just the odd one 🙂 But they're easy and cheap to find.

Paul Kopit said:

.. 9sp conversion disks are readilly available ...you can convert your 10sp to shifter to 9sp ...

But why would I buy a Campa 10 sp only to convert it to (Campa, I assume)9 sp when there are 9 sp Campa available at a better price? Future-proofing my purchase? Or is it an aftermarket item that makes the Campa brifter index with Shi w/o any other tinkering?

Paul Kopit said:

If it's a frankenbike,

You betcha! There may be some pics eventually.

Paul Kopit said:

.. you can also buy older, pointy hood Campy ergo

There IS a Campy 8sp, incl 9 sp adapter kit available too right now. Don't know if that would a pointy hood version or not. Would there be any advantage of getting that instead? They'd also be $40 more expensive than the straight off 9 sp currently on sale.