Paging Messrs. Fogel and Sherman

[email hidden] aka Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Who's them dudes in the thread title?

Quoted message said:

Modern Mechanix, February 1936:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airlines/

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

Prone position streamliner, the first bicycle to exceed 50 mph (flat, no
wind conditions or power assist):
<http://www.easyracers.com/images/scan0014.jpg>.

Being launched: <http://www.easyracers.com/images/scan0005.jpg>.

Yes, hairstyles were bad in the 1970's.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

email hidden said:

Modern Mechanix, February 1936:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airlines/

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

Dear Ryan,

It's a nice example of goofy design.

From the wind's point of view, the rider on that thing is scarcely
different than a rider on an ordinary bike with drop bars.

The text is mostly wishful thinking. For example, the picture belies
the claim that the "handlebars are lowered almost to the level of the
front axle"--they're obviously at rim height

The position looks hideously uncomfortable, with the rider apparently
resting his weight on his groin. There might be some sort of chest pad
to help (the picture is unclear), but I'd hate to try to ride that
thing down the block.

For comparison, here's what the ICU was banning in 1933:
http://uk.geocities.com/lrjbart/images/faure.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airl...

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

From the wind's point of view, the rider on that thing is scarcely
different than a rider on an ordinary bike with drop bars.

More recent attempts seem a bit better in that regard:

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/presentation.html
http://www.geocities.com/rcgilmore3/Prone2.jpg (Tim Elsdale's prone
bike)

Chalo

Chalo said:

Carl Fogel said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airl...

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

From the wind's point of view, the rider on that thing is scarcely
different than a rider on an ordinary bike with drop bars.

More recent attempts seem a bit better in that regard:

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/presentation.html
http://www.geocities.com/rcgilmore3/Prone2.jpg (Tim Elsdale's prone
bike)

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

Yes, there's some improvement in reducing the frontal area, but that
first site is comical in every other respect.

"Is the women breast compressed?"

"No, the breast is not supported on the boobies but higher up on the
clavicle and sternum."

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/faq.html

The bizarre arguments advanced for improved everyday bicycling match
the translations.

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Modern Mechanix, February 1936:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airlines/

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

That's and advert for how not to have children! I cannot imagine how
uncomfortable that must have been.

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

Carl Fogel said:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airl...
>
> A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
> position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.
From the wind's point of view, the rider on that thing is scarcely
different than a rider on an ordinary bike with drop bars.

More recent attempts seem a bit better in that regard:

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/presentation.html
http://www.geocities.com/rcgilmore3/Prone2.jpg (Tim Elsdale's prone
bike)

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

Yes, there's some improvement in reducing the frontal area, but that
first site is comical in every other respect.

"Is the women breast compressed?"

"No, the breast is not supported on the boobies but higher up on the
clavicle and sternum."

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/faq.html

The bizarre arguments advanced for improved everyday bicycling match
the translations.

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[shudders]that brings back memories [/shudders]
www.m-gineering.nl/buikligger.jpg
you couldn't drink, I just about managed to steer one handed, but
swallowing didn't work, bloodflow to legs was restricted, the toe clip
straps loosened (and you can't reach them) .... 😉

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

aka 'Dear Carl' Fogel said:

...
I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

Readers of rec.bicycles.tech:

The building of this bicycle states that a sling does NOT make a good
seat: <http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/Monky1.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

Carl Fogel wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airl...
>>
>> A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
>> position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.
> From the wind's point of view, the rider on that thing is scarcely
> different than a rider on an ordinary bike with drop bars.
More recent attempts seem a bit better in that regard:

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/presentation.html
http://www.geocities.com/rcgilmore3/Prone2.jpg (Tim Elsdale's prone
bike)

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

Yes, there's some improvement in reducing the frontal area, but that
first site is comical in every other respect.

"Is the women breast compressed?"

"No, the breast is not supported on the boobies but higher up on the
clavicle and sternum."

http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/faq.html

The bizarre arguments advanced for improved everyday bicycling match
the translations.

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[shudders]that brings back memories [/shudders]
www.m-gineering.nl/buikligger.jpg
you couldn't drink, I just about managed to steer one handed, but
swallowing didn't work, bloodflow to legs was restricted, the toe clip
straps loosened (and you can't reach them) .... 😉

Dear Marten,

You do a push-up to drink from a camelback, according to the site.

Clipless pedals solve the problem of your feet falling off.

Only sissies complain when their legs go numb.

You didn't even notice the vision problems, which are being solved!
http://www.h-zontal.com/pagesgb/securite.html

Originally, the prone rider stared down at this tilted mirror in front
of the handlebar to see the road ahead of him:

"For a long straight run (more than 50 meters) you can use the mirror
system. The vision of the road is as wide as a panoramic angle of a
car`s windscreen."
http://www.h-zontal.com/images/photos/vision.jpg

Alas, the mirror jiggled too much, so now the rider sees the road by
wearing this pair of X-Men goggles and staring down at the mirror in
the nose tray:

"This mirror system is now integrated in the goggles to reduce the
vibrations of the image. The mirror covers only 1/5th of the real
vision so you can see directly up and down, by only moving your eyes."
http://www.h-zontal.com/images/photos/masque.jpg

A really geeky face-down rider might rig up a virtual reality helmet
and see where he's going through a camera that points forward.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Tom Sherman said:

The building of this bicycle states that a sling does NOT make a good
seat: <http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/Monky1.jpg>.

Umm...

The seat is /not/ the only thing wrong with that "bike".

Chalo

Carl Fogel said:

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

This harness looks comfy enough, but it seems like it might interfere
with pedaling:

http://www.hanglide.com/miva/graphics/00000001/gtxc_01_main.jpg

I wonder what they do when it's time to set down?

Chalo

Chalo Colina said:

Tom Sherman said:

The building of this bicycle states that a sling does NOT make a good
seat: <http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/Monky1.jpg>.

Umm...

The seat is /not/ the only thing wrong with that "bike".

Here are the comments by the builder:

"Me on sling seat with huge chainring. Pro-life or not, this baby should
have been aborted. The enormous chainring given to me by my Russian -now
American friend Boris Zakoldaev was too cool to not try. It weighed only
7 lbs and was machined in trade for a bottle of Vodka in a Russian
Military Helicopter factory during the Cold War. The reverse fork gave
poor handling and a seat suspended by ropes is next to impossible to
drive. Bill Murphy helped me build this bike too, but he will probably
deny it."

But the huge chainring is cool.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Chalo said:

Carl Fogel said:

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

This harness looks comfy enough, but it seems like it might interfere
with pedaling:

http://www.hanglide.com/miva/graphics/00000001/gtxc_01_main.jpg

I wonder what they do when it's time to set down?

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

They unzip:

"The main thing I was told was that you don;t have to zip up right
away, there's no rush. Also, get the unzipping started way before
landing. It is amazing how hard these things can be to unzip when you
are busy with other things."

"I soon cut off my shoelaces completely, after one got caught in the
zipper. I now am careful about what pants or shorts I wear--baggy
light Nylon shorts get caught in the zipper easily, whereas stiffer
material doesn't."

"Two weeks ago I got my shorts caught in the zipper again, jamming it.
Good thing I was a mile from the LZ. I could not get the zipper to
work. Then I could not get the emergency-escape Velcro to pull apart.
I actually pulled the red handle right off the harness, like a
steering wheel in the Keystone Kops. (It was not sewn on strong
enough). Eventually I broke through the zipper itself."

"Joe Greblo later told me how to get out of the Velcro if it won't let
go. You let go of the control bar and use both hands, one to pull the
red handle and the other, from the other side, to push the Velcro
apart. Flying no hands near a lifty LZ is not my first choice, so I
get the zipper halfway down before I am 1,000 AGL."

http://shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=444&sid=641b1f19b0d7478242b10ad8386778a9

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

aka 'Dear' Carl Fogel said:

...
A really geeky face-down rider might rig up a virtual reality helmet
and see where he's going through a camera that points forward.

Readers of rec.bicycles.tech:

Bicycles with camera only forward vision have already been built:
<http://www.helsinki.fi/~tlinden/images/kyle-virtual-edges.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:21:10 +0100, Frank Leake <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Modern Mechanix, February 1936:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airlines/

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

That's and advert for how not to have children! I cannot imagine how
uncomfortable that must have been.

Dear Ryan,

Some other examples from that site of bicycle engineering at its
finest can be browsed here:
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/index.php?s=bicycle

Tired of oversized Moulton tandems?

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/12-1937/med_tiny_bike.jpg

Early 650B:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/PopularScience/2-1933/med_small_wheel_bike.jpg

Derailleurs are too complicated, so:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/PopularMechanics/7-1954/lrg_geared_bike.jpg

Remember the recent propeller thread?

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/PopularScience/11-1936/med_prop_bike.jpg

Somehow I'm skeptical of the 45 mph aero-cycle claim:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/MechanixIllustrated/9-1949/cycles/cycles_0.jpg

Early VO2 testing equipment:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/PopularMechanics/8-1938/med_athelete_measure.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel quoted:

Quoted message said:

"Two weeks ago I got my shorts caught in the zipper again, jamming it.
Good thing I was a mile from the LZ. I could not get the zipper to
work. Then I could not get the emergency-escape Velcro to pull apart.
I actually pulled the red handle right off the harness, like a
steering wheel in the Keystone Kops. (It was not sewn on strong
enough). Eventually I broke through the zipper itself."

That would certainly make me rethink the whole legs-in-a-bag regime.
I don't wish to contemplate how one would cope with a landing gear
failure. "Belly landing" perhaps? Eek!

Chalo

Carl Fogel said:

Somehow I'm skeptical of the 45 mph aero-cycle claim:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/MechanixIllustrated/9-1949/cycles...

The two older gents on the "Hand Scooter-Bike" must have made a
spectacle of themselves when pumping vigorously at their machine.

Chalo

Chalo said:

Carl Fogel said:

I suppose that the contraption is easier to ride than a unicycle, but
I look forward to an improved version, where the rider hangs like a
sloth underneath the main frame member, thus eliminating the need for
the bulky pads.

This harness looks comfy enough, but it seems like it might interfere
with pedaling:

http://www.hanglide.com/miva/graphics/00000001/gtxc_01_main.jpg

I wonder what they do when it's time to set down?

Chalo

They extend some of those little wheels like that "How to descend
fast" guy has (

).

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:21:10 +0100, Frank Leake <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Modern Mechanix, February 1936:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/11/speed-bike-has-natural-airlines/

A prone-recumbent (terminology?) design. Large wheels, not-flat riding
position, crank located well behind the rear wheel.

That's and advert for how not to have children! I cannot imagine how
uncomfortable that must have been.

Dear Ryan,

Some other examples from that site of bicycle engineering at its
finest can be browsed here:
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/index.php?s=bicycle

Quoted message said:

Somehow I'm skeptical of the 45 mph aero-cycle claim:

<http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/MechanixIllustrated/9-1949/cycles/cycles_0.jpg>

Carl! Somehow you posted this and completely ignored the photo of Faure
on a Mochet recumbent!

Oddly, this is in a 1948 magazine, so they're reporting news from over a
decade ago.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

aka 'Dear' Carl Fogel said:

...
A really geeky face-down rider might rig up a virtual reality helmet
and see where he's going through a camera that points forward.

Readers of rec.bicycles.tech:

Bicycles with camera only forward vision have already been built:
<http://www.helsinki.fi/~tlinden/images/kyle-virtual-edges.jpg>.

You forgot to follow up with whether the riders have yet to successfully
ride a flying-200 course without crashing, as I gather that was a
problem with the first designs brought to Battle Mountain.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing