mea culpa

A Muzi said:

I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered the
horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election cycle here.

I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other takers? Truly few to
none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our political opinions based on
comments from other r.b.t. contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an
exercise in snappy comment, which we have in spades without straying
from bicycles.

I filter them 100%. Never read political posts.

A Muzi said:

I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered the
horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election cycle here.

I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other takers? Truly few to
none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our political opinions based on
comments from other r.b.t. contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an
exercise in snappy comment, which we have in spades without straying
from bicycles.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup is
like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with 'OT",
everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend time in
those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter those threads.
I really do not see the harm in it.

J.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered the
horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election cycle here.
I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other takers? Truly few to
none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our political opinions based on
comments from other r.b.t. contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an
exercise in snappy comment, which we have in spades without straying
from bicycles.

Jay said:

I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup is
like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with 'OT",
everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend time in
those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter those threads.
I really do not see the harm in it.

search for the 'party doll' thread.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

catzz66 said:

I filter them 100%. Never read political posts.

From what I remember about your political leanings, I guess you'd have
to cultivate a deep and robust obliviousness in order to maintain
them.

Your practice is probably good for your blood pressure, though.

Chalo

In article <[email hidden]>,

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered
the horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election
cycle here. I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other
takers? Truly few to none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our
political opinions based on comments from other r.b.t.
contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an exercise in snappy
comment, which we have in spades without straying from bicycles.

Jay said:

I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup
is like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with
'OT", everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend
time in those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter
those threads. I really do not see the harm in it.

search for the 'party doll' thread.

Hey! I was repressing here! Do ya mind? Yikes!

Andrew Muzi said:

...
search for the 'party doll' thread.

See
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/ef777f172afe58e6/1d0183679a81fefb?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=sheldon+party+doll#1d0183679a81fefb>.

Frankly, I think posting political opinions is a no-win situation for a
business person - I wonder if lost business had something to do with
Todd Kuzma and Mark Hickey (to represent both political sides) dropping
from the newsgroup. I know a dealer who told me he avoided off-topic
postings for that very reason.

And despite what "Dear Carl" may falsely allege, this is not an attempt
to cost anyone business.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

...when Andrew wrote -

Quoted message said:

Truly few to none of us on r.b.t. are going
to change our political opinions based on comments from other
r.b.t. contributors anyway.

- I thought how true...

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

Michael Baldwin said:

..when Andrew wrote -

Quoted message said:

Truly few to none of us on r.b.t. are going
to change our political opinions based on comments from other
r.b.t. contributors anyway.

- I thought how true...

Sorta like arguing with Bourbon Man - hey wait, that is also fun!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

Tom Sherman said:

I wonder if lost business had something to do with
Todd Kuzma and Mark Hickey (to represent both political sides) dropping
from the newsgroup.

Isn't Mark Hickey the guy who killed John Lennon?

Chalo said:

catzz66 said:

I filter them 100%. Never read political posts.

From what I remember about your political leanings, I guess you'd have
to cultivate a deep and robust obliviousness in order to maintain
them.

Your practice is probably good for your blood pressure, though.

Chalo

Whatever. I come here to talk about bikes, not politics. Here,
politics is just troll bait.

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered the
horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election cycle here..
I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other takers? Truly few to
none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our political opinions based on
comments from other r.b.t. contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an
exercise in snappy comment, which we have in spades without straying
from bicycles.

Jay said:

I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup is
like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with 'OT",
everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend time in
those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter those threads.
I really do not see the harm in it.

search for the 'party doll' thread.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Wow, talk about an epic battle! Lives were lost on both sides, no
doubt. 1071 posts! Went on for I don't know how long.

For those who have never heard of the 'party doll' thread (like me),
here is a link http://tinyurl.com/2sd3wl .

I just glanced at it, and it looks like there were some really
creative, ingenious insults traded. I liked the reference to Al Gore
as a 'Tipper sticker'. Really tasteless.

I will never say that OT threads are harmless again.

Chastised J.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered
> the horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election
> cycle here. I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other
> takers? Truly few to none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our
> political opinions based on comments from other r.b.t.
> contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an exercise in snappy
> comment, which we have in spades without straying from bicycles.

Quoted message said:

Jay said:

I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup
is like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with
'OT", everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend
time in those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter
those threads. I really do not see the harm in it.

Quoted message said:

search for the 'party doll' thread.

Hey!  I was repressing here!  Do ya mind?  Yikes!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yikes is right! I have read a bit more of the 'party doll' thread, and
I think Andrew's suggestion to stay away from political discussions is
a good idea. That thread must have alienated a lot of people, and I
suppose the quality and quantity of bike advice must have dropped off
as a consequence of the bad feelings. There were a few colorful and
eloquent insults, but most of it was pretty crude.

I know plenty of small businessmen who never post any kind of
political stuff in their shop windows. They just do not want to make
anyone mad.

J.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> I just deleted a couple of OT political comments as I remembered
>> the horrible waste of time we endured during a previous election
>> cycle here. I'll make an effort to stay on topic. Any other
>> takers? Truly few to none of us on r.b.t. are going to change our
>> political opinions based on comments from other r.b.t.
>> contributors anyway. Political OT becomes an exercise in snappy
>> comment, which we have in spades without straying from bicycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jay wrote:
> I think trying to get a consensus on anything in a Usenet newsgroup
> is like herding cats. As long as the subject line is prefaced with
> 'OT", everyone is playing by the rules. Those who chose to spend

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> time in those discussions can do so. Others are free to filter
> those threads. I really do not see the harm in it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

search for the 'party doll' thread.

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

Hey! I was repressing here! Do ya mind? Yikes!

Jay said:

Yikes is right! I have read a bit more of the 'party doll' thread, and
I think Andrew's suggestion to stay away from political discussions is
a good idea. That thread must have alienated a lot of people, and I
suppose the quality and quantity of bike advice must have dropped off
as a consequence of the bad feelings. There were a few colorful and
eloquent insults, but most of it was pretty crude.
I know plenty of small businessmen who never post any kind of
political stuff in their shop windows. They just do not want to make
anyone mad.

We get snotty comments on my American flag at eye level on the front
door. If you're out to be inoffensive, there's no lower limit.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

We get snotty comments on my American flag at eye level on the front
door. If you're out to be inoffensive, there's no lower limit.

Before September 2001, your take on this would have been
understandable. But surely you can't be in denial about the fact that
since that time, Old Glory has become visual shorthand for xenophobia
and jingoism.

In the '90s, I used to wear a US flag pin on my motorcycle jacket.
along with my handmade lightning-bolt zipper pulls and silver Mexican
Peso coin charm. Now I wouldn't wear the Stars and Stripes any more
than I'd sport an SS insignia. It's been co-opted by the same minions
of hate and deceit.

The only innocuous way to fly the US flag anymore is upside down, as a
signal of distress.

Chalo

Chalo Colina said:

Quoted message said:

We get snotty comments on my American flag at eye level on the
front door. If you're out to be inoffensive, there's no lower
limit.

Quoted message said:

Before September 2001, your take on this would have been
understandable. But surely you can't be in denial about the fact
that since that time, Old Glory has become visual shorthand for
xenophobia and jingoism.

It started a bit before that and was at high tilt during the Viet Nam
debacle. Xenophobes and jingoists have always clothed themselves in
patriotism and what better symbol of that than the national flag. We
have a food market on the coast in Davenport (old whaling town) run by
Palestinians who flay the US flag as protection against xenophobes.

Quoted message said:

In the '90s, I used to wear a US flag pin on my motorcycle jacket.
along with my handmade lightning-bolt zipper pulls and silver
Mexican Peso coin charm. Now I wouldn't wear the Stars and Stripes
any more than I'd sport an SS insignia. It's been co-opted by the
same minions of hate and deceit.

I feel the same and feel that flying the flag as my neighbor does,
with all night spotlight is a heavy statement about his support of US
imperialism. We have not yet reached the level of flag flying that
prevailed in the 1940's in Germany, but we are catching up. Jacked up
pickup trucks that harass bicyclists around here, have the US flag in
one corner of the rear window and a USMC decal in the other.

http://i1.tinypic.com/505ukc2.jpg

Note home made bicycle sign.

Quoted message said:

The only innocuous way to fly the US flag anymore is upside down, as
a signal of distress.

I believe it should be flown on national holidays like the 4th of
July, armistice day, veterans day and the like, but most of the flag
folks don't know of those events. They have a different political
agenda.

Jobst Brandt

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

We get snotty comments on my American flag at eye level on the front
door. If you're out to be inoffensive, there's no lower limit.

Before September 2001, your take on this would have been
understandable. But surely you can't be in denial about the fact that
since that time, Old Glory has become visual shorthand for xenophobia
and jingoism.

In the '90s, I used to wear a US flag pin on my motorcycle jacket.
along with my handmade lightning-bolt zipper pulls and silver Mexican
Peso coin charm. Now I wouldn't wear the Stars and Stripes any more
than I'd sport an SS insignia. It's been co-opted by the same minions
of hate and deceit.

The only innocuous way to fly the US flag anymore is upside down, as a
signal of distress.

Chalo

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/moviehouse/Easy-Rider.jpg
-tom

Quoted message said:

I believe it should be flown on national holidays like the 4th of
July, armistice day, veterans day and the like, but most of the flag
folks don't know of those events. They have a different political
agenda.

I think there's a real divide here. I know a number of WWII vets -
guys who enlisted and put their lives on the line for what was the
right thing to do. I know many of them fly or sport flags. Very few
support Bush, Iraq, or imperialism. Many are vehemently opposed to
Bush and Iraq and sending in troops for anything that is not worth
putting their lives on the line. But, they still fly the flags.

Contrasting them, there are a few that adhere to the "support the
President when we're at war, no matter what". But, they seem to be the
minority.

Note that my sample doesn't include many of the ignorant who don't
really understand what they country does and/or why and perhaps fall
into the groups cited earlier.

still just me said:

Quoted message said:

I believe it should be flown on national holidays like the 4th of
July, armistice day, veterans day and the like, but most of the flag
folks don't know of those events. They have a different political
agenda.

I think there's a real divide here. I know a number of WWII vets -
guys who enlisted and put their lives on the line for what was the
right thing to do. I know many of them fly or sport flags. Very few
support Bush, Iraq, or imperialism. Many are vehemently opposed to
Bush and Iraq and sending in troops for anything that is not worth
putting their lives on the line. But, they still fly the flags.

Contrasting them, there are a few that adhere to the "support the
President when we're at war, no matter what". But, they seem to be the
minority.

Note that my sample doesn't include many of the ignorant who don't
really understand what they country does and/or why and perhaps fall
into the groups cited earlier.

I'm pretty left wing and was never big into the American flag or
patriotism. But in the last few years I've started feeling
differently -- we need to get to the true meaning of patriotism --
honoring people who have sacrificed in the defense of our country and
also honoring the ideals of liberty, dissent, secular government,
respect for human rights. We've got to take away the symbols of
patriotism who don't understand the real meaning of those things by
using them properly.

Andrew Muzi said:

...
We get snotty comments on my American flag at eye level on the front
door. If you're out to be inoffensive, there's no lower limit.

Is the flag displayed in accordance with the Flag Code [1]? I have seen
the flag displayed improperly in way too many places.

[1] <http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#175>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth