Using Hubs without a lockring

Look at sheldonbrown.com; he has a lot of info on converting hubs. I don't recall whether he said you have to be extra careful while braking.

I posted here in the past, asking whether one could convert an old steel tenspeed hub by soldering the sprocket and lockring on but no one would consider the question.

Why don't they just put splines on the hub the way a c/b hub takes sprockets?

gclark8 said:

Here in Aus the availability of cheap track hubs, flip/flop and lockring type, is limited to those with vast amounts of $$. About $200 a pair. :eek:

One of the local (BMX) shops suggested for fixed wheel,
use a freewheel spin-on hub,
a track cog and
a bottom bracket lockring (RH Thread)
as a cheap solution.

Has anyone out there tried this?

Yes,

Works well. I have an old Suzue flip flop, one end set up for the LH lock ring and the other designed for a freewheel. The old BB lockring works fine.

I set up a bike for a mate on a single side freewheely hub using this method and one of the blokes in our club had done the same. John is an old timer and very conservative so I reckon if he is happy with the result it must be OK.

OTOH after you have ridden for a while get your chain whip and try removing the sprocket. You will be amazed how tight is has become! Maybe a lock ring is not so essential!

A lot of people don't bother with the 1/8" track cog/chain and use 3/32 cog/chain. I am using a 6 Speed deraileur chain simply because that was what was on the old roady that I converted.

Mike

garage sale GT said:

Look at sheldonbrown.com; he has a lot of info on converting hubs. I don't recall whether he said you have to be extra careful while braking.

I posted here in the past, asking whether one could convert an old steel tenspeed hub by soldering the sprocket and lockring on but no one would consider the question.

Why don't they just put splines on the hub the way a c/b hub takes sprockets?

AS said in my previous post, the BB lockring works fine so not sure why you would need solder, particularly if you ever wanted to change your cog size.

Mike

coppershark said:

AS said in my previous post, the BB lockring works fine so not sure why you would need solder, particularly if you ever wanted to change your cog size.

Mike

I guess everyone who says to use a hand brake with converted hubs is just wrong.

I am not suggesting they would endorse my plan, or that it would work well. You may, for example, take some friction out of the joint by stress relieving the threads a bit, winding up with a weaker joint than when you started with.

However, if you don't want to consider the question, why don't you just not post about it? You seem to be saying a track sprocket on an old tenspeed hub is as good as it gets. It's simply not.

garage sale GT said:

I guess everyone who says to use a hand brake with converted hubs is just wrong.

I am not suggesting they would endorse my plan, or that it would work well. You may, for example, take some friction out of the joint by stress relieving the threads a bit, winding up with a weaker joint than when you started with.

However, if you don't want to consider the question, why don't you just not post about it? You seem to be saying a track sprocket on an old tenspeed hub is as good as it gets. It's simply not.

FWIW. I believe the suggestion of using a hand brake with a Fixie when riding on the road is because there are some circumstances when slowing down by pedaling at a slower cadence isn't going to keep the rider out of trouble BECAUSE sometimes you just need to come to a near-or-full stop in a hurry ... and, that is regardless of whether someone is riding with a TRACK hub + reverse-thread lockring OR a ROAD hub + BB lockring.

BTW. Since I also suggested using a BB lockring from an "old" English threaded BB on a ROAD hub as a workaround a long time ago [it might have been in a different Forum] AND I was told that the BB lockring would allow the cog to unthread, I now would suggest that adding a washer would/should make the BB lockring a little more secure than simply the TRACK cog + BB lockring combination ... and, I concur that the TRACK cog might eventually be tighter than one might imagine after a few rides BASED ON having to grind off two-of-the-last-four freewheels that I wanted to remove! In those two cases, I removed the freewheel BODY with a LARGE pipe wrench while it was still warm [i.e., certainly, hotter than I wanted to touch with my bare hands] ...

Since COASTING is a component of riding that I take pleasure in (hey, I remember when I used to be Flatlander there was a time when I coasted faster than the average rider pedaled) I have not put the TRACK cog + washer + BB lockring to the test, but I am fairly confident that adding the washer will sufficiently increase the effect of the BB lockring (with-or-without a thin coat of Loctite) to prevent a TRACK cog from loosening when attached on a ROAD hub ...

So, George, I think you can take both your LBS's & coppershark's suggestion of using a BB lockring ... add a washer (e.g., BB-or-cassette spacer OR cut one from a plastic bottle OR possibly a ring bent from an old spoke) if you also think it will help ... AND, do include a front brake for safety.

Back to the OP's question, though: I suggest a bit of web research. A lot of people are doing this.

I do seem to recall that some of them thought you ought to use a hand brake when using converted road hubs, and they did not categorically recommend hand brakes.

As for the solder idea: most hubs are aluminum anyway so it's a moot point.

garage sale GT said:

Back to the OP's question, though: I suggest a bit of web research. A lot of people are doing this.

I do seem to recall that some of them thought you ought to use a hand brake when using converted road hubs, and they did not categorically recommend hand brakes.

As for the solder idea: most hubs are aluminum anyway so it's a moot point.

The use of a normal hand operated brake on the front wheel is because as a previous poster has pointed out sometimes on the road you need to make an emergency stop and the brake is a lot more efficient in this regard than simply trying to stop the bike using your leg muscles. Also as an old timer my knees are not what they used to be and I need to give them a bit of care.

Re lockrings - in the conversions that I did there would not be enough space on the threads to add a washer. You may have a hub with a longer thread than mine.

Re absence of lock ring - as I said in a previous post with forward pedalling the cogs screw on very tight and and are difficult to remove using a chain whip so you may be able to ride for years without the cog unscrewing when you hold back to slow down without a lock ring and in fact a number of people do not use a lock ring.

Mike

coppershark said:

...

Re lockrings - in the conversions that I did there would not be enough space on the threads to add a washer. You may have a hub with a longer thread than mine.

Re absence of lock ring - as I said in a previous post with forward pedalling the cogs screw on very tight and and are difficult to remove using a chain whip so you may be able to ride for years without the cog unscrewing when you hold back to slow down without a lock ring and in fact a number of people do not use a lock ring.

While a 1-to-2mm washer is probably better (that is, if at all necessary, I don't think the washer needs to be particularly thick AND one cut from a plastic (e.g., talc) bottle/container should work well (OR, is that too thick?).

Here's another option:http://www.63xc.com/jasom/milldisc.htm

gclark8 said:

Here in Aus the availability of cheap track hubs, flip/flop and lockring type, is limited to those with vast amounts of $$. About $200 a pair. :eek:

One of the local (BMX) shops suggested for fixed wheel,
use a freewheel spin-on hub,
a track cog and
a bottom bracket lockring (RH Thread)
as a cheap solution.

Has anyone out there tried this?

I've used an older style hub w/ a thread on freewheel. Remove the freewheel, spin on your track cog w/ some loctite. Dish the wheel some so you can get a decent chain line. I typically use a bmx chain as they are inexpensive and easy to get. I ride in some busy areas, so brakes are on my fixie. I am on my third year with this set up...works well!!

garage sale GT said:

Here's another option:63xc.commilldisc.htmOpen ↗

That's brilliant ...

I might just use Jason Millington's suggestion & convert a disc hub to a Fixed Gear hub for use in a MTB frame (for at least ONE ride!) ...

I also feel like trying to convert a FRONT disc hub to a 120mm fixed rear hub, too!

Thank you for the replys.

I have been absent as my PC crashed from a power surge and brown out.

I have to be careful with unconventional solutions, as I build these bikes to sell.

I am sourcing some second hand rear track hubs for the genuine track bikes. However, for the road and mtb conversions I will offer the BB lockring and track cog as an option.

I also wondered why the disc brake hub had not been tried. Respacing a 100mm front hub to 120mm is easy. However a 5/16 front axle conversion requires a careful choice of hubs.

For 3/8 front and rear, I am using bmx hubs and for 5/16 front, a mtb hub.

A recent 29er MTB SingleSpeed conversion, pix;

This is from the same site as the disc brake conversion:

What would be an appropriate hub for my fix?
A true fixed gear hub differs from a singlespeed hub in that it has a left-hand-thread lockring to hold the sprocket in place. Without a lockring, a fixed setup is unsafe, no matter what anyone tells you. There are only a few true fixed gear hubs on the market. Several of them were developed for track use and seem inappropriate for the road, let alone the trail. We maintain a listing of offroad-capable fixed gear

garage sale GT said:

This is from the same site as the disc brake conversion:

What would be an appropriate hub for my fix?
A true fixed gear hub differs from a singlespeed hub in that it has a left-hand-thread lockring to hold the sprocket in place. Without a lockring, a fixed setup is unsafe, no matter what anyone tells you. There are only a few true fixed gear hubs on the market. Several of them were developed for track use and seem inappropriate for the road, let alone the trail. We maintain a listing of offroad-capable fixed gear

For some reason it won't let me post the whole quote, but from the context it sure sounds like they mean a track hub lockring with reverse threads.

Other web sources which did not generally think a hand brake was necessary seemed to think it was for converted hubs.

It could be a problem which only occurs every once in a long while but when I researched doing a conversion, there did seem to be a common thread of a lower degree of trust in converted fw road hubs.

See also http://www.cyclingforums.com/t435731.html for a general discussion on SS Hubs. 😉