Track Bike/Frame help

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:08:05 -0800 (PST), MattP <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have been a road cyclist/tri for a long time and hoping to take
lessons at the velodrome in Atlanta this spring.
I know I can rent a bike there but was wanting to build//buy a bike
now and try to get used to riding it before getting to the track. I
will probably want one with a front brake so I can train on it on the
road as well. I already have a spare 105 brake I could use on the
front.

Build yourself a cheap road specific fixed gear bike if you don't
already have one to get used to riding fixed, but use the rental bikes
until you're sure you want to spend a lot of time on the track

Quoted message said:

Here are my list of ????
Crank length=I use a 172.5 and I was hoping to use the same length on
track bike to help with pedal efficency but have seen where most go
for 165 or 170 on velodrome. Do I need to drop down for track riding?

If you're using the rental bikes, they'll have 165s. A lot of bollocks
is talked about crank length, but in blind tests hardly anybody can
actually tell if you swap them onto 5mm shorter cranks. There is a
possibility to suffer a pedal strike if you use long cranks on a steep
velodrome, and nobody will thank you for taking chips out of the track
surface

Quoted message said:

Pedals ? For beginners on track can I use the same Look or SPD
clipless pedals or use the straps that usually come with the bikes for
starting out. I ask that also since I have spare Look and SPD pedals I
could use already.

Take your usual shoes and pedals to the track, and take a pedal
spanner so you can put them on the rental bike; my sister in law has
been doing this at Calshot for the last two seasons, although her
Christmas stocking this year contains a Dolan track bike, so pedal
swaps will be a thing of the past :-)

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

In article
<[email hidden]>,

MattP said:

Here are my list of ???? Crank length=I use a 172.5 and I was hoping
to use the same length on track bike to help with pedal efficency but
have seen where most go for 165 or 170 on velodrome. Do I need to
drop down for track riding?

You'll have one gear and you'll be spinning the cranks at 150 rpm and
faster on a regular basis. Go with the 165s. There is also an issue of
clearance- on a velodrome with steep banking, you can easily ground the
right side pedal which will usually cause a crash.

You will also need to have a selection of chainrings (47-50) and of cogs
(12-15) 'cuz that's how you change gears on a track bike. You'll need a
lockring spanner for the rear hub.

http://www.fixedgearfever.com/ may have information that will help you.
And talk to some local trackies and/or the track director. They can
help you short cut a lot of this, such as recommending a shop that
understands track, what gear combinations you should have to start with,
etc.

Quoted message said:

Bike-Frame? I have been looking at alot of frames/bikes and see alot
of comments that some of them don't really have the frame geometry
for the track- Both Road bikes I ride (KleinQuantum,Lemond Tourmalet)
have a 56.5 - 57 top tube and have 32" standover height. I have a
130mm stem on both and have saddle all the way to the back with
setback. Do I chose a track frame the same as road frame?

Same size. The proportions of the frame will be different than a
typical road bike (steeper seat tube, steeper head tube, lower bars) so
you'll have to play around with stem length.

Quoted message said:

I am 5 10
and weigh 185- As for entry level track bikes, which ones actually
have frame geometry for the track? I was looking at the IRO Mark V
pro but the 59cm is out of stock and didnt know ife the standard Mark
V had track geometry. Do the Fuji Track,Bianchi Pista, Schwinn
Madison have track geometry as well?I would prefer one with a 1 1/8
theadless fork as I have spare stems already.

"Track" geometry mainly involves a high bottom bracket for pedal
clearance, and typically steep head and seat tubes. The high BB is the
most important of these. Note also that you will need bolt-on wheels
front and rear.

Quoted message said:

Pedals ? For beginners on track can I use the same Look or SPD
clipless pedals or use the straps that usually come with the bikes
for starting out. I ask that also since I have spare Look and SPD
pedals I could use already.

Clipless pedals are fine and most track riders use then. In fact,
clipless pedals are probably a good thing for track newbies since they
are a safety feature- they release when you crash.

Tim McNamara said:

You will also need to have a selection of chainrings (47-50) and of cogs
(12-15) 'cuz that's how you change gears on a track bike. You'll need a
lockring spanner for the rear hub.

Unless you're trying motorpacing 52-16 or 50-15 is a nice racing gear.
Can't see much use for cogs smaller than 14

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

MattP said:

I have been a road cyclist/tri for a long time and hoping to take
lessons at the velodrome in Atlanta this spring.
I know I can rent a bike there but was wanting to build//buy a bike
now and try to get used to riding it before getting to the track. I
will probably want one with a front brake so I can train on it on the
road as well. I already have a spare 105 brake I could use on the
front.

Here are my list of ????
Crank length=I use a 172.5 and I was hoping to use the same length on
track bike to help with pedal efficency but have seen where most go
for 165 or 170 on velodrome.  Do I need to drop down for track riding?

Bike-Frame?  I have been looking at alot of frames/bikes and see alot
of comments that some of them don't really have the frame geometry for
the track- Both Road bikes I ride (KleinQuantum,Lemond Tourmalet) have
a 56.5 - 57 top tube and have 32" standover height.  I have a 130mm
stem on both and have saddle all the way to the back with setback.  Do
I chose a track frame the same as road frame?  I am 5 10 and weigh
185- As for entry level track bikes, which ones actually have frame
geometry for the track?  I was looking at the IRO Mark V pro but the
59cm is out of stock and didnt know ife the standard Mark V had track
geometry. Do the Fuji Track,Bianchi Pista, Schwinn Madison have track
geometry as well?I would prefer one with a 1 1/8 theadless fork as I
have spare stems already.

Pedals ? For beginners on track can I use the same Look or SPD
clipless pedals or use the straps that usually come with the bikes for
starting out. I ask that also since I have spare Look and SPD pedals I
could use already.

<http://www.businesscycles.com/toc.htm>

That's John Dacey's Business Cycles, Miami.

Here's a frame he offers that might fit the bill for you:

<http://www.businesscycles.com/nessuno.htm>

John is an esteemed contributor to this newsgroup.

And some background reading:

<http://fixedgearfever.com/>

<http://www.velodrome.com/index2.html>

I have no familiarity with Altanta. Alkek (Houston) had a rental fleet
when I started, 8-10 years ago. Cheap and easy, "bring your own pedals
and helmet". Different bikes to ride and try out, including makers and
sizes, "geometry" to some extent.

(expanding) If Atlanta's rentals are OK (no offense intended), rent
first, get some experience while looking for something good in a used
frame/parts, or buy shiny new if the budget permits, once you try a
frame or three and see what is being used where you ride-- or perhaps
you find an event specialty, etc.

Geometry? You want a higher BB, after that, there is variation (see
manufacturer charts), which can be very fine-tuned according to event.
"Or not" <g>; until you get to the higher levels, a "basic" (cheap)
track bike will do just fine.

You might be able to use one (in seat tube length) size smaller frame,
due to the higher BB, for the same approx. standover, if the resulting
top tube length isn't too short for you.

After that, I don't exactly understand "track bikes that don't have
track bike geometry". Frankly, that sounds like some personal
preferences being presented as a "standard" of some kind, from here.
There might be some extreme or fairly extreme "building for event",
such as sprint bike v. pursuit bike; not a concern for a beginner. You
just need a decent all-rounder to get started. Like what is probably
in the rental fleet.

Pedals? New cleats on new pedals (nothing at all road-worn, at least!)
with adjustable tension, adjusted tight-- whatever, just so you don't
pull out. Totally important, don't skimp there. People I saw at Alkek
used "everything"; cleats/straps and all brands of clipless.

Crank length? Specificity is good, I went to 165's for road and
stayed. But, rent, see if the 165 thing (likely what is on the rent
bikes) is remotely an issue for you first. Find out what people are
using, see if any are having problems with longer cranks, such as
touching and sliding out during track stand stand-offs during match
sprints, for instance.

One thing that could be a plus for building up a road-going fixed gear
bike is simply getting used to fixed (!!!). That's mostly just
remembering to pedal without stopping. You might "cover" this with
trips to open track days (renting, again) if that applies at Atlanta,
or fee-paid training group sessions if available. There was such a
series at Houston, super experience for a beginner.

A "track only" bike and riding kit IMHO is best: you want to bring a
bike to the track that is 100% set up correctly for chainline, has
good, solid, "fresh" components (no tossing worn or misaligned
chains), and no wheel problems, such as having a flat related to road
use, or other issues that can come from changing out road parts,
especially in a hurry, for track night. A "favorite" here is shoes,
cleats, pedals; difficulties are seen when people bring road bikes and
trainers/rollers and other road kit to warm up on. Stuff gets mixed
up, or there's an infield thrash to get ready for an event, and
problems result.

Track is a different world. The premium put on smooth, safe riding on
the road goes up another level for the velodrome. That's one of the
fun parts IMHO. --D-y

In article <[email hidden]>,

M-gineering said:

Tim McNamara said:

You will also need to have a selection of chainrings (47-50) and of
cogs (12-15) 'cuz that's how you change gears on a track bike.
You'll need a lockring spanner for the rear hub.

Unless you're trying motorpacing 52-16 or 50-15 is a nice racing
gear. Can't see much use for cogs smaller than 14

It depends on the track and your legs, of course. I had 48 and 50
chainrings and 13-16 cogs. Those combinations let me have a pretty good
selection of gears. I used the 48 x 14 a lot.

OTOH the guy who set the local hour record used a 52 x 12.

MattP said:

Any help on these ? would be appreciated

Matt P

Matt,

In the Atlanta area, I know that Atlanta Velo Exchange and Outback bikes
deal with a lot of the track racers in the area. I hear that AVX has
less attitude that Outback. YMMV, HTH, etc etc

\\paul

MattP said:

Here are my list of ????
Crank length=I use a 172.5 and I was hoping to use the same length on
track bike to help with pedal efficency but have seen where most go
for 165 or 170 on velodrome. Do I need to drop down for track riding?

You can't coast through corners on a track bike, so short crank arms
reduce the risk of snagging a pedal while cornering. Most track frames
will also have a relatively high bottom bracket for the same reason.

Quoted message said:

Bike-Frame? I have been looking at alot of frames/bikes and see alot
of comments that some of them don't really have the frame geometry for
the track- Both Road bikes I ride (KleinQuantum,Lemond Tourmalet) have
a 56.5 - 57 top tube and have 32" standover height. I have a 130mm
stem on both and have saddle all the way to the back with setback. Do
I chose a track frame the same as road frame? I am 5 10 and weigh
185- As for entry level track bikes, which ones actually have frame
geometry for the track? I was looking at the IRO Mark V pro but the
59cm is out of stock and didnt know ife the standard Mark V had track
geometry. Do the Fuji Track,Bianchi Pista, Schwinn Madison have track
geometry as well?I would prefer one with a 1 1/8 theadless fork as I
have spare stems already.

For training on the road, regular road geometry will suffice. On the
track, different types of races may call for specific frames, but not
until you get good enough to afford it. :-)

Back "in the day" many racers could not afford more than one bike, so a
single bike was used for commuting, road or track by adding or removing
components as required.

The common ground for track geometry is tight wheel clearance and high
bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

Pedals ? For beginners on track can I use the same Look or SPD
clipless pedals or use the straps that usually come with the bikes for
starting out. I ask that also since I have spare Look and SPD pedals I
could use already.

I think you'll find toe clips and (double) straps are still pretty
popular on the track. Clipless has a tendancy to come unclipped at
inopportune moments, and getting clipped back in is not easy when the
pedals are still going around at 100 rpm. Nobody in the pack is going to
like you very much if you come unclipped at speed and take down a bunch
of riders in the process. Remember: no brakes, no coasting.

--

John ([email hidden])