improve cadence

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train.  Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

I mean start bouncing.

odd one said:

I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
my body start rocking. Any good suggestion? And how to train.

Why do you want to do that? It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here. Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times. His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Today, riding at less than 100rpm seems to be so embarrassingly out of
style that people will shout across busy intersections that one should
sift down and not look like a nerd.

You don't have to spin at all times. Aerobic capacity gives more
speed, not rpm.

Quoted message said:

Happy holiday and New Year to all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding
in 2008.

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

Jobst Brandt

goodone said:

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train.  Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

I mean start bouncing.

Watching yourself in an inexpensive full-length mirror can help you
smooth out your pedaling.

So can spinning briefly past the zone where you start to bounce.

That's also something you can work on outdoors, with a fixed gear,
given a suitable hill. --D-y

On Dec 21, 10:14 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

goodone said:

On Dec 21, 8:22 pm, goodone <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train.  Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

Quoted message said:

I mean start bouncing.

Watching yourself in an inexpensive full-length mirror can help you
smooth out your pedaling.

So can spinning briefly past the zone where you start to bounce.

That's also something you can work on outdoors, with a fixed gear,
given a suitable hill.  --D-y

you can improve it by spending a lot of time training on your trainer-
dailty 1hour sessions with a bike computer to measure your distance;
then try to improve that each day; in a short time you will have a
monster workout and monster legs; you may also find your position
might need some adjusting too; but be careful because the position you
develop on a trainer might not be as suitable on the road; I will
suggest to ride outdoors as frequently as possible.

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train. Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

For most people 120 rpm is ridiculously high, and serve no purpose. Try
adjust your saddle a bit higher when you start hopping. That's what I
did on my singlespeed.

Lou

Quoted message said:

odd one said:

I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
my body start rocking. Any good suggestion? And how to train.

Why do you want to do that? It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here. Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times. His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Maybe they just don't know how to drive stick shifts.

Quoted message said:

odd one said:

I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
my body start rocking.  Any good suggestion?  And how to train.

Why do you want to do that?  It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here.  Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times.  His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Today, riding at less than 100rpm seems to be so embarrassingly out of
style that people will shout across busy intersections that one should
sift down and not look like a nerd.

You don't have to spin at all times.  Aerobic capacity gives more
speed, not rpm.

Quoted message said:

Happy holiday and New Year to all cyclists.  Have a wonderful riding
in 2008.

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

Jobst Brandt

Mr Brandt is correct, as far as he goes, which is less than half way.
Achieving very high cadence rates is a long recognized goal of
training. I'ld be happy if I could do 100 on a level street with a
40x26 for ten minutes. It's a matter of acclimating the joints to the
stress.

Supposing you, goodone, are young and in good health, I'd say leave
120 rpm for next year. The rocking motion you mention suggests you
are too close to your personal limits. Keep it down to a hundred rpm,
but extend the length of time you maintain it. Go for multiple
hours. I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

Strive for your personal best effort. Don't put much confidence in
electromechanical trainers, accuracy is hard to come by. Go for big
time numbers rather than a few seconds. Don't hurt yourself.

"goodone" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train. Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

I mean start bouncing.

Unclip one foot and put it arest on the mounting axle off the tacx trainer.
ride with the other foot one minute , now change feet and put the other foot
away.
Again one minute.
Now try pedaling with both feet. I'll hope you'll find some improvement, I
did.
But riding fixed gear was a more fun way of training cadance.

Taeke

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

odd one said:

I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
my body start rocking.  Any good suggestion?  And how to train.

Quoted message said:

Why do you want to do that?  It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here.  Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times.  His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Quoted message said:

Today, riding at less than 100rpm seems to be so embarrassingly out of
style that people will shout across busy intersections that one should
sift down and not look like a nerd.

Quoted message said:

You don't have to spin at all times.  Aerobic capacity gives more
speed, not rpm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Happy holiday and New Year to all cyclists.  Have a wonderful riding
in 2008.

Quoted message said:

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Mr Brandt is correct, as far as he goes, which is less than half way.
Achieving very high cadence rates is a long recognized goal of
training.  I'ld be happy if I could do 100 on a level street with a
40x26 for ten minutes.  It's a matter of acclimating the joints to the
stress.

Supposing you, goodone, are young and in good health, I'd say leave
120 rpm for next year.  The rocking motion you mention suggests you
are too close to your personal limits.  Keep it down to a hundred rpm,
but extend the length of time you maintain it.  Go for multiple
hours.  I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

Strive for your personal best effort.  Don't put much confidence in
electromechanical trainers, accuracy is hard to come by.  Go for big
time numbers rather than a few seconds.  Don't hurt yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think there is misunderstanding here.
Just a reminder, riding on a trainer a trainer is very different from
on street or road.
Riding on a trainer, the mag unit location can be adjusted to make It
feel like riding on downhill to improve your cadence or uphill to
improve your strength.

I made cadence to 100-105 easily under downhill condition.

Probably I should represent my question as how to stop bouncing when
cadence reaches 115rpm on a 15km downhill no traffic course on a fixed
gear bicyle?

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:46:19 -0800 (PST), goodone <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

odd one writes:
> I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
> my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
> 52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
> my body start rocking.  Any good suggestion?  And how to train.

Quoted message said:

Why do you want to do that?  It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here.  Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times.  His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Quoted message said:

Today, riding at less than 100rpm seems to be so embarrassingly out of
style that people will shout across busy intersections that one should
sift down and not look like a nerd.

Quoted message said:

You don't have to spin at all times.  Aerobic capacity gives more
speed, not rpm.

Quoted message said:

> Happy holiday and New Year to all cyclists.  Have a wonderful riding
> in 2008.

Quoted message said:

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Mr Brandt is correct, as far as he goes, which is less than half way.
Achieving very high cadence rates is a long recognized goal of
training.  I'ld be happy if I could do 100 on a level street with a
40x26 for ten minutes.  It's a matter of acclimating the joints to the
stress.

Supposing you, goodone, are young and in good health, I'd say leave
120 rpm for next year.  The rocking motion you mention suggests you
are too close to your personal limits.  Keep it down to a hundred rpm,
but extend the length of time you maintain it.  Go for multiple
hours.  I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

Strive for your personal best effort.  Don't put much confidence in
electromechanical trainers, accuracy is hard to come by.  Go for big
time numbers rather than a few seconds.  Don't hurt yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think there is misunderstanding here.
Just a reminder, riding on a trainer a trainer is very different from
on street or road.
Riding on a trainer, the mag unit location can be adjusted to make It
feel like riding on downhill to improve your cadence or uphill to
improve your strength.

I made cadence to 100-105 easily under downhill condition.

Probably I should represent my question as how to stop bouncing when
cadence reaches 115rpm on a 15km downhill no traffic course on a fixed
gear bicyle?

The gym has some of those upright bikes. After I had done 10 minutes
of stairs I got on the bike trainer. I spun for a little bit at
90-100. then I tried to go as fast as I could. The rpm read 200. I
bounced around a bit. I made no power relatively speaking. When I am
on a real bike I ride 60-120 rpm. Maybe a bit faster if I am trying to
race in a pack and maybe a bit slower than 60 on some climbs when I
run out of gears. It is certainly something I don't obsess over as I
sit here typing instead of setting fence posts, tossing grass seed,
stretch new fence wire or riding a bike.

Fixed said:

"goodone" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train. Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

I mean start bouncing.

The problem is that you're not balanced, and never will be short of
adding a system of counterbalance shafts to your body. To expect a
cyclist not to generate out of balance forces is like expecting a
perfectly smooth 2 cylinder motor; it can't be done.

However, you're out of balance by the same amount regardless of speed,
and the bouncing is due to a resonance between your speed and the
spring/mass system made up of your total mass and the compliance of
the tyres. To increase this frequency, you can reduce your mass or
increase the spring rate by increasing tyre pressure, but the best
solution is actually to pedal quickly through it to a higher speed
which doesn't excite the resonance. I too bounce on the rollers at
about the same range, somewhere near 110rpm, but I'm perfectly smooth
at 130+

I can't think of any reason to train for a steady 120rpm, unless
you're planning an assault on your club's medium gear time trial
records :-) Aim for a gear which gives you the workout you want at
closer to 100rpm, and make sure you can also do the short bursts of
150rpm which are required for sprinting. If you're riding easily at
100rpm on 52/14, try 52/13 until that is easy at 100rpm, then increase
the gear again.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Quoted message said:

I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

So why do you recommend a high cadence when it seems inefficient in
your own experience?

Art Harris

Kinky Cowboy said:

I can't think of any reason to train for a steady 120rpm, unless
you're planning an assault on your club's medium gear time trial
records :-) Aim for a gear which gives you the workout you want at
closer to 100rpm, and make sure you can also do the short bursts of
150rpm which are required for sprinting. If you're riding easily at
100rpm on 52/14, try 52/13 until that is easy at 100rpm, then increase
the gear again.

I thought that was pretty good.

As a beginner racer, I used to train (indoors, rollers mostly, some
stationary trainer) with a metronome. I found BPM's where it was very
hard to maintain that steady cadence in a given gear or resistance
setting, but much easier only a few "beats" (rpm count) slower, or
faster-- or much faster <g>, same resistance. Or much, much faster
<g>. I rode at the three or four difficult cadences in an attempt to
iron them out. Who knows? I'm a stayer who can sprint sometimes; maybe
that practice helped there. Gave me something to do on those long,
dark, cold winter days, at minimum.

One quick answer to the "why 120rpm" question is, "after 120 (or
higher), 100 seems easier". --D-y

In article
<[email hidden]
egroups.com>,

goodone said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

odd one writes:
> I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set
> my objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear
> 52teeth/14teeth, I can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115,
> my body start rocking.  Any good suggestion?  And how to train.

Quoted message said:

Why do you want to do that?  It sounds much like the guys who drive
their Porsche or Maserati at 6000rpm in low gear down the main around
here.  Even tough others are passing silently and without effort, the
"racer" is roaring at high cadence at all times.  His engine is so
high strung, it doesn't work well at normal speeds, he'll tell you.

Quoted message said:

Today, riding at less than 100rpm seems to be so embarrassingly out of
style that people will shout across busy intersections that one should
sift down and not look like a nerd.

Quoted message said:

You don't have to spin at all times.  Aerobic capacity gives more
speed, not rpm.

Quoted message said:

> Happy holiday and New Year to all cyclists.  Have a wonderful riding
> in 2008.

Quoted message said:

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Mr Brandt is correct, as far as he goes, which is less than half way.
Achieving very high cadence rates is a long recognized goal of
training.  I'ld be happy if I could do 100 on a level street with a
40x26 for ten minutes.  It's a matter of acclimating the joints to the
stress.

Supposing you, goodone, are young and in good health, I'd say leave
120 rpm for next year.  The rocking motion you mention suggests you
are too close to your personal limits.  Keep it down to a hundred rpm,
but extend the length of time you maintain it.  Go for multiple
hours.  I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

Strive for your personal best effort.  Don't put much confidence in
electromechanical trainers, accuracy is hard to come by.  Go for big
time numbers rather than a few seconds.  Don't hurt yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think there is misunderstanding here.
Just a reminder, riding on a trainer a trainer is very different from
on street or road.
Riding on a trainer, the mag unit location can be adjusted to make It
feel like riding on downhill to improve your cadence or uphill to
improve your strength.

I made cadence to 100-105 easily under downhill condition.

Probably I should represent my question as how to stop bouncing when
cadence reaches 115rpm on a 15km downhill no traffic course on a fixed
gear bicyle?

Smooth out your motion. Pick up your feet. Keep both feet moving
all the time. Do not depend on the crank motion to lift the idle
foot. Move your feet when they are at the top and bottom phase
of the cycle.

--
Michael Press

Art Harris said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a fat old guy, but I can hit a hundred rpm for a few
seconds, although a few full minutes would leave me gasping even on a
level street in a very low gear.

So why do you recommend a high cadence when it seems inefficient in
your own experience?

Art Harris

Twenty five years ago I rode daily and I became convinced that a
higher cadence was preferable, but I don't mean to recommend that. I
don't get as many miles in two months these days as I did most weeks
then.

My experience is that I'm out of shape instead. I get an average
cadence in the mid to high sixties most rides. This is with
deliberately trying for something higher. Of course the average speed
for a ride is also a consideration, life is an incessant succession of
compromises. I'm not a serious rider, never have been. The ever more
heavily traveled public streets are ever more frightening, and
bicycles with 100 psi tires don't stop on a dime, especially when
moving over 20 mph.

Quoted message said:

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

If there is any way to make riding an indoor trainer less of chore,
I'm open for suggestions....

Ron Ruff said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks, you might try to enjoy riding rather than making it a chore.

If there is any way to make riding an indoor trainer less of chore,
I'm open for suggestions....

Go to Spin classes? --D-y

Kinky Cowboy said:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:27:36 +0100, "Fixed"

Quoted message said:

"goodone" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train. Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

Quoted message said:

I mean start bouncing.

The problem is that you're not balanced, and never will be short of
adding a system of counterbalance shafts to your body. To expect a
cyclist not to generate out of balance forces is like expecting a
perfectly smooth 2 cylinder motor; it can't be done.

However, you're out of balance by the same amount regardless of speed,
and the bouncing is due to a resonance between your speed and the
spring/mass system made up of your total mass and the compliance of
the tyres. To increase this frequency, you can reduce your mass or
increase the spring rate by increasing tyre pressure, but the best
solution is actually to pedal quickly through it to a higher speed
which doesn't excite the resonance. I too bounce on the rollers at
about the same range, somewhere near 110rpm, but I'm perfectly smooth
at 130+

I can't think of any reason to train for a steady 120rpm, unless
you're planning an assault on your club's medium gear time trial
records :-) Aim for a gear which gives you the workout you want at
closer to 100rpm, and make sure you can also do the short bursts of
150rpm which are required for sprinting. If you're riding easily at
100rpm on 52/14, try 52/13 until that is easy at 100rpm, then increase
the gear again.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

I am absolute with you, your answer is really make sense.

Kinky Cowboy said:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:27:36 +0100, "Fixed"

Quoted message said:

"goodone" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

goodone said:

Hello,
I am training on Tacx traniner in my basement this winter, and set my
objective to improve my RPM to steady 120 at gear 52teeth/14teeth, I
can keep 105-110 easily, but when reaching 115, my body start rocking.
Any good suggestion? And how to train. Happy holiday and New Year to
all cyclists. Have a wonderful riding in 2008.

Quoted message said:

I mean start bouncing.

The problem is that you're not balanced, and never will be short of
adding a system of counterbalance shafts to your body. To expect a
cyclist not to generate out of balance forces is like expecting a
perfectly smooth 2 cylinder motor; it can't be done.

However, you're out of balance by the same amount regardless of speed,
and the bouncing is due to a resonance between your speed and the
spring/mass system made up of your total mass and the compliance of
the tyres. To increase this frequency, you can reduce your mass or
increase the spring rate by increasing tyre pressure, but the best
solution is actually to pedal quickly through it to a higher speed
which doesn't excite the resonance. I too bounce on the rollers at
about the same range, somewhere near 110rpm, but I'm perfectly smooth
at 130+

I can't think of any reason to train for a steady 120rpm, unless
you're planning an assault on your club's medium gear time trial
records :-) Aim for a gear which gives you the workout you want at
closer to 100rpm, and make sure you can also do the short bursts of
150rpm which are required for sprinting. If you're riding easily at
100rpm on 52/14, try 52/13 until that is easy at 100rpm, then increase
the gear again.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

I am absolute with you, your answer is really make sense.